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The New API 1608 Console Consoles
Old 29th August 2007
  #211
Gear Maniac
 
API Sez...'s Avatar
API 1608 Photos!

Apologies to all you GS'ers who have been awaiting some photos of the new 1608 from the source. While the OFFICIAL introduction of the console is at the New York AES in October, the buzz that has been created by a couple of people who were allowed an advanced look at the proto has been overwhelming to us.

Hey... we are just a small audio company that is trying to keep this analog stuff in user's hands after all.

We recognize that nothing we make, or probably anyone else makes for that matter, is going to be all things to all people. We just enjoy what we are doing and most definitely appreciate the comments, criticisms, complaints and accolades we receive on this forum and others.

Here is a link to a few photos we shot at the factory this week.

API 1608 preliminary stuff

The API web page SHOULD be updated soon, but not soon enough for us either!
Old 29th August 2007
  #212
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rawdigits's Avatar
 

awesome...
Old 29th August 2007
  #213
Gear Maniac
 
Audionaut's Avatar
 

API Youtube soundtrack

I Like the AC/DC tune...interesting choice for your soundtrack.
Of course that was recorded and mixed on Mutt's Lange's SSL 4048 E/G+.
That could be found here:
Im selling LOTS of gear!!!!!!!!!!!
I believe it's already sold, though, for far less than your API!
TMI in typical gearslutz fasion.
I loves me some trouble!
heh
Old 29th August 2007
  #214
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stevetgn's Avatar
That desk is just so desirable its like looking at top notch gear porn!
Old 29th August 2007
  #215
TRW
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TRW's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
I'm not proving anything, what do I have to prove? I agreed with someone that it might not sound the same, BFD!
Woah Larry - it wasn't an attack!! I was merely trying to get into a technical discussion....I did put in a wink and thumbs up!! I didn't say you had to prove yourself..I was welcoming correction on my part if what I said was wrong...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
End of my part on this thread. Bye bye.
Crikey! Please - not on my part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
You are talking the difference of two op-amps in one ACN plus the input and output transformers in the booster amp section. At least that's what my Edyne has in the path.
Cool - does your Electrodyne use balanced busses? Why two amps in one ACN?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
Also do you think the copper or the metal in the transformers are the same as in the days of Yor? I think that might not be the case. Plus the EPA removed all the good carcinogens.
Oh I don't doubt that at all but thats wasn't my point - I was talking purely about circuit topology not component differences and their audible colour, API have been using new steel-cored 2503 in their modern products and most do not worry about their sound compared to an old 2503. Sure the 2622 mic input is a different story but people still like new APIs with the Jensen input...

Quote:
Originally Posted by vin-gear View Post
BTW, thanks for the help on the GeekSlutz forum! thumbsup
No worries mate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vin-gear View Post
The signal runs to the fader unbalanced, then back thru a 2520 and x-former. ALL of the bussing is also unbalanced to the ACA's for main busses, cue and echo sends. L & R mix buss are also unbalanced bussing. They all run unbalanced to their ACA's, where they are balanced output via 2520 and x-former, then to fader unbalanced (buss or stereo 2-mix), then to 325 for make up gain where they are again balanced.
Thanks for the info Jeff!!

I find it interesting that API balance ACN output to feed an insert but then run the fader input directly from the return...one may have expected a differential line receiver there instead....thats cool. Are the L&R buss fader 600 ohm or 5k? Just have to be sure they aren't too low for whatever you insert there..if its modern gear that doesn't like driving 600ohm loads without much higher distortion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vin-gear View Post
I'll have to check but I'm pretty sure from memory that the ACA's are not the same tranformers as 325's or on input channels.
I've not seen those modules but it is quite possible, API had a number of different output transformers. All are reasonably similar, some were slightly smaller with different turns ratios or fewer secondary windings (IIRC most if not all were steel cored).

Tom
Old 29th August 2007
  #216
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jsteiger's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRW View Post
I find it interesting that API balance ACN output to feed an insert but then run the fader input directly from the return...one may have expected a differential line receiver there instead....thats cool. Are the L&R buss fader 600 ohm or 5k? Just have to be sure they aren't too low for whatever you insert there..if its modern gear that doesn't like driving 600ohm loads without much higher distortion.
Tom, pretty sure my stereo fader is 600 ohm but I will check. I know what you mean about pushing a 600 ohm load. Avedis tests his and competitors opamps will driving a 600 ohm load. 2520's, 990's and his 1122 (and some others) drive it no problem without low end roll off. I understand that some current discrete opamps cannot do this? I do have 2 P&G 1122 stereo 5k's so I may experiment with one for the 2 mix. I'll post a pic of the ACA's if anyone is interested. Very simple circuit with a 2520, a trany, couple of resistors and a couple of caps. Old school discrete summing!

BTW, the scan of my 536 module is way to big to post, but I have it.

Sorry to high jack
Old 29th August 2007
  #217
TRW
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TRW's Avatar
Cool beans Jeff - I wouldn't mind seeing a pic.

Not sure about LF losses but some modern opamps don't like driving 600ohms without THD rising through the roof (so to speak)

For example a Forssell 992 (while still a great discrete amp) has a distortion rise into a 600ohm load.

A 990 is one of the best into low loads.

-T
Old 29th August 2007
  #218
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Meriphew's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by API Sez... View Post

Here is a link to a few photos we shot at the factory this week.

API 1608 preliminary stuff

The API web page SHOULD be updated soon, but not soon enough for us either!
Wow! I can't wait to see pics of the 32 channel version.
Old 29th August 2007
  #219
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thenoiseflower's Avatar
 

WOW, that things really looks killer up close, I love the solo safes on the auxes!


seriously, I am rethinking my 30k neotek I've been saving a while for. ****.

I want to see the 32 channel too.
Old 29th August 2007
  #220
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Well...

HTML Code:
www.apiaudio.com
has been updated. Looking good. Looking great actually!

I'm still confused about the eq situation, though. API also states 12 550A eqs in a fully fitted console, yet 550B's are photographed. Obviously it will accept any 500 series module, but with around $400 in the difference between A & B modules, will it actually be nearly $5000 cheaper loaded with B's rather than A's?

Am I asking that clear enough? Am I the only one chasing my tail on this a little?

Thanks for the info API. I guess the cat got out of the bag on you a little early before AES, but it would have been a painful wait without something from you guys...much appreciated.

Also...please feel free to comment on the SUBS fader situation if you want. Can it be an optional extra $$???

All the best...thumbsup
Old 29th August 2007
  #221
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andsonic's Avatar
 

Look at the back at the inserts. It looks like you can configure the board like an AWS 900. For Ex: Eq > tape, tape>fader. Now if the new automation supports DAW control protocols
Old 29th August 2007
  #222
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The MPCist's Avatar
 

+1 on the 32 channel pics!!!
Old 29th August 2007
  #223
Lives for gear
 

where do you see the 32 channels version ???
Old 30th August 2007
  #224
Gear Head
 

In order to cut cost how about offering a input module
without a mic-pre? That ought to remove $200-$400 from
each channel... (most of us allready have enough API or other
mic pres).

Also, what is the biggest form you can go with this? 48? 64 channels?

it looks awesome!

-carl
Old 30th August 2007
  #225
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jonnypowell's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstanley View Post
In order to cut cost how about offering a input module
without a mic-pre? That ought to remove $200-$400 from
each channel... (most of us allready have enough API or other
mic pres).

Also, what is the biggest form you can go with this? 48? 64 channels?

it looks awesome!

-carl
Exactly.. Like the Neve 5088. I have no need for mic pres whatsoever, I purely use my studio for mixing. So yeah, this would be a good option..
Old 30th August 2007
  #226
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnypowell View Post
Exactly.. Like the Neve 5088. I have no need for mic pres whatsoever, I purely use my studio for mixing. So yeah, this would be a good option..
thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

Indeed, this is valid requirement to get rid of pres if they are not necessary.
I have 22 channels of various pres so line inputs would be OK.
Old 30th August 2007
  #227
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Steamy Williams's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnypowell View Post
Exactly.. Like the Neve 5088. I have no need for mic pres whatsoever, I purely use my studio for mixing. So yeah, this would be a good option..
Me too!
Old 30th August 2007
  #228
Lives for gear
stands to reason that most people interested in this console already own several pres, so a line in version could make sense, but who knows how much that really would knock off the price in the end. ramping up for a product like this isn't cheap. if short loading pres wasn't designed into it from the beginning, i doubt they'll be flipping around and redesiging the thing midstream but you never know.

i don't need a side car or a center facilities section, already have 8 X 312s, my room is too effing small, but i can't stop looking at the freakin' pictures! let's see... if i sell my 312s... punch a hole in the wall, take out the couch... ah forget it.
Old 30th August 2007
  #229
Lives for gear
 
The MPCist's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstanley View Post
In order to cut cost how about offering a input module
without a mic-pre? That ought to remove $200-$400 from
each channel... (most of us allready have enough API or other
mic pres).

Also, what is the biggest form you can go with this? 48? 64 channels?

it looks awesome!

-carl
If it only removes $200 per channel, I'd rather just have it in there. For rock projects, this console is a godsend!
Old 30th August 2007
  #230
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The Alamo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post
Would love to know some details about the Future Vision Automation. I know it's a way off, but is any sort of recall available, a la Neve and SSL's recent offerings?

Great work API.thumbsup

Ken
I suppose if it will be like the Vision, it will be without recall software...
Of course on a Vision, switches are automated as well...
Old 30th August 2007
  #231
Lives for gear
 
jsteiger's Avatar
I would bet that the pre is too integral to the input strip to easily remove. Plus, your talking about a couple of resistors, input transformer, a pot and a phantom switch. $50 at best maybe??? Probably cost more to remove it than to leave it in there.
Old 30th August 2007
  #232
Gear Maniac
 
API Sez...'s Avatar
1608 answers - a few

Alright you guys - here are some answers to a few of the most common questions and comments:

YES - the 1608 will ship with 12 550A's in the EQ section - not 550B's as shown in the prototype pictures. WHY?? - we didn't have 12 550A's in the factory when we loaded her up.

Mic pre - No mic pre.
Raal, we went around at length on whether to make the input module without a mic pre and have the pre available as an option, have the pre as a plug-on board, have no pre's, etc. The reality is - and Vin-gear got it right - there is little difference in the FINAL cost of the input module with or without the mic pre. That is not to say the mic pre doesn't cost anything - it is just that when you commit build a significant number of anything, in this case input strips, the TOTAL cost of the module after board stuffing, assembly, metalwork and knobs - a few more or less parts do not impact the cost that much. Additionally, we found that designing a plug-on daughter board for the mic pre that made it optional, significantly increased the total price of the input strip - making it unreasonable in our opinion.

Automation.
Unfair to comment here as the details are still in the works.

Max size.
The 16 channel expander is as far as you can go for a max of 32 channels. If you need more than 32 you are likely looking at a Legacy or Vision, we think.

We will post a few shots of the expander as we get it loaded up just for the GS cast. Keep an eye on the link we posted before;

API 1608 preliminary stuff

Thanks again to all who have commented.
Old 30th August 2007
  #233
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Cool, thanks!

Yeah, sell your rack gear and go with the (internal rack) of APIs. thumbsup
Old 30th August 2007
  #234
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jsteiger's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
...Yeah, sell your rack gear and go with the (internal rack) of APIs. thumbsup
+1 thumbsup

Nice big 500 series rack with metering & faders!
Old 30th August 2007
  #235
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peat's Avatar
it says 'INSTUMENT INPUT' on the back
hope this was a one off typo
Old 30th August 2007
  #236
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GearHunter's Avatar
 

At first I thought the 500 penthouse would only be for EQs and Comps, but apparently additional mic-pres can be loaded in to the extra eight options bucket (spaces 17 through 24)thumbsup
Old 30th August 2007
  #237
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Steamy Williams's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by peat View Post
it says 'INSTUMENT INPUT' on the back
hope this was a one off typo
Indeed it does.
Old 30th August 2007
  #238
Gear Maniac
 
API Sez...'s Avatar
Quote:
it says 'INSTUMENT INPUT' on the back
hope this was a one off typo
Yes it was.
Old 30th August 2007
  #239
Lives for gear
 
Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alamo View Post
I suppose if it will be like the Vision, it will be without recall software...
Of course on a Vision, switches are automated as well...
Thanks for the info.

While I own and LOVE many API 500 modules and 3124s, I've still never tracked or mixed on an API console. I'm totally clueless when it comes to their automation capabilities. I can't even find a manual on-line to get my head around it.

I believe the Vision console manual is rather large. If anybody knows a source of an electronic format of it, I'd love to have a look. Perhaps I should just ask API directly.

Thanks again Alamo.thumbsup
Old 30th August 2007
  #240
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Logic View Post
How would a PRO discount work--is there any market for this console out of the "PRO" market? Call me crazy but I doubt many "semi-PRO" and "amatuer" consumers are going to walk into their local GC, see an API 1608 on the floor and drop $50K.
Fine, then how about a semi-pro discount.

-R
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