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The New API 1608 Console Consoles
Old 4th September 2007
  #301
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Oh yeah...and API...if this is indeed an HPF, let me be the first to say...I really DO NOT mind where it is located. Up by the EQ, Pan and Insert is a-okay by me!!!
Old 4th September 2007
  #302
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superburtm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticglobe View Post
Oh man... I disagree here. I have had the new "A" and "B" side by side. They sound as identical as can be on the same frequency and cut/boost.

If you bring vintage into the picture... that's another story... but the new stuff is VERY consistent.
I have had new 550 b's that my clients bring in next to my 550A(vintage) and it is a whole different ballgame. Not huge fan of 550 b's ..I mean they dont suck but 550b's sound much more pointy and sharp to me then the Old 550a's. However, I have never used a reissue 550a so they might sound similar to the B.
Old 4th September 2007
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superburtm View Post
I have had new 550 b's that my clients bring in next to my 550A(vintage) and it is a whole different ballgame. Not huge fan of 550 b's ..I mean they dont suck but 550b's sound much more pointy and sharp to me then the Old 550a's. However, I have never used a reissue 550a so they might sound similar to the B.
Hey friend. In all 3 of my posts about this topic, I have stipulated clearly that there IS indeed an audible different to me in the VINTAGE "A's" and the new "A's". CLEAR difference. I was talking about the different between modern (rolling of the assembly line TODAY) 550a's and 550b's. To my ears the A's and B's rolling off the line together today sound as close to identical as one could hope. Originally this came up because someone asked about why "A's" instead of "B's" in this console. It was commend sound might be a reason. If they were sticking VINTAGE A's in there I would agree, but I comment that sound isn't really issue since they are filling them with NEW EQ's.... and that to me... the A's and the B's that are new.... sound the same.

The Vintage ones still sound better than the new A's and B's in my opinion. Same with the pre's. Nothing beats the old 312's. Gotta a pair of them myself and they slay everything else for that "API" thing. Gonna buy some more soon.

jmtc...

p.s. I am clear now? HEH
Old 4th September 2007
  #304
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666666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticglobe View Post
... the A's and the B's that are new.... sound the same....
I would respectfully disagree with this. Perhaps the new A's and B's are more closely related to each other than some old A's and B's, but there is still a very clear difference from what I can tell. The new A's certainly have a character and color that the new B's do not have. B's are still great though of course... just a bit different. I can see many situations where I'd want B's over A's.

One thing that I'm not sure has yet been mentioned at the forum... what about old B's? I have a pair of old B's that sound VERY different than the new B's, they sound a lot more like the new A's, in fact they have even more color and cool vibe than the new A's... they might be my favorite API eqs of all.

Seems that you really cannot chart this stuff out. You can't really say, across the board, that an A sounds like a B, or doesn't sound like a B, new, or old, or both, or whatever, etc... seems that over time these relationships have changed, the units have changed a bit sonically, etc.... maybe the really old A's and B's sounded most alike, then after that point the A's and B's became more different, and now in recent times they are a bit closer to each other again... but yet different than they were back years ago...??? You can go nuts over this stuff after a while.

I personally wish this stuff was more consistant so it would be easy to determine what you like and how to obtain it. I love my one pair of old B's.... they're incredible... I'd love to get more of these but have no idea how to obtain B's that sound like the one's I have here other than trying to find others with similar serial #s and hoping for the best... it's all a crap shoot though.

Finally, bottom line, I never heard an A or B I didn't like and that wasn't 100% useful and didn't enhance whatever audio was going through it (set "correctly" of course). Yeah, they all sound a bit different, or a bit the same, or whatever, but there comes a point where you should finally just not worry about it and worry more about the truly important stuff... like source sounds, arrangements, overall production direction... maybe even the music itself too, etc....

You know... like if John Bonham's snare from a Zep recording was going through a vintage A or B, or a new A or B, etc, would it make a gosh darn bit of difference in the end product??? I need to keep reminding myself of this so that I stop spending so much time worrying about ridiculously subtle nuances in gear!
Old 4th September 2007
  #305
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
You know... like if John Bonham's snare from a Zep recording was going through a vintage A or B, or a new A or B, etc, would it make a gosh darn bit of difference in the end product???

which brings us around to helios. now THERE's a reissue console that might prompt me to sell a kidney.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 4th September 2007
  #306
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Oh yes...

I know that nobtwiddler was bugging "Arny" to build a frame with routing...I wonder what happened with that. He sold an empty 4 spce rack he bought from me...so he's probably collecting more units.

But that would be my perfect cup of tea.
Old 4th September 2007
  #307
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
which brings us around to helios. now THERE's a reissue console that might prompt me to sell a kidney.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Oh, no, man.
Old 4th September 2007
  #308
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lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
Oh yes...

I know that nobtwiddler was bugging "Arny" to build a frame with routing...I wonder what happened with that. He sold an empty 4 spce rack he bought from me...so he's probably collecting more units.

But that would be my perfect cup of tea.
Tony Arnold ... is he still alive and well?
Old 4th September 2007
  #309
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nobtwiddler's Avatar
Helios console

Buggin him (Arny) isn't the word...
As well as anyone else I can find that is interested in building this thing.
Haha
I'll keep you guys posted...
Old 5th September 2007
  #310
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O View Post
This is of course an API thread and they deserve to have their very nice, new product discussed. I only add this since you appear to be seeking a monitor solution for the API 1608.
Hey Mike,

I missed your post somehow. Everything you said there is true. Thanks for the info and picture...tidy looking solution. Certainly worthy of a new thread and definitely more info on the Daking website!

Steering the focus back to API's sexy 1608... I was just looking at the photos again and I've noticed a couple things that I'm a bit unsure as to how they will function. Both are to do with the Echo Sends and Returns.

First, the Echo Sends. On the rear panel, there is a DB25 connector labled OUTPUT 1-8. Simple enough. Above that are 8 TRS jacks labeled EXTERNAL INPUT 1-8. Then on the control surface, there is an EXT IN button/switch on each Echo Send.

Question: Why would you have an External Input on a master Echo/Aux Send?

Second, the Echo Returns. Same kind of thing. On the rear panel, DB25 connector labled INTPUT 1-8. Again, simple enough. Above that are 8 TRS jacks labeled AUX INPUT 1-8. Then on the control surface, there is an AUX IN button/switch on each Echo Return.

Question: Why would you have an AUX Input on a master Echo/Aux Return?

It's late...I'm tired...but if somebody could shed some light on this, I would really appreciate it. Maybe I've just been working in the box for longer than I care to remember and this is Consoles 101:The Rudiments.

Thanks folks.
Attached Thumbnails
The New API 1608 Console-cr_rear.jpg   The New API 1608 Console-echo.jpg  
Old 5th September 2007
  #311
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O View Post
This is of course an API thread and they deserve to have their very nice, new product discussed.
Anyway Chandler's new baby just spoiled my love to this board a little
Old 5th September 2007
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post
Question: Why would you have an External Input on a master Echo/Aux Send?
perhaps to inject DAW sends, so DAW and console sends could go to the same outboard effect, for example?

Quote:
Question: Why would you have an AUX Input on a master Echo/Aux Return?
can't figure that one out either.

Quote:
Maybe I've just been working in the box for longer than I care to remember and this is Consoles 101:The Rudiments.
+1
Old 5th September 2007
  #313
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Benmrx's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
perhaps to inject DAW sends, so DAW and console sends could go to the same outboard effect, for example?
That's good thinkin

I really hope the sales for these new, mid-sized consoles goes well. One would only assume it wouldn't take long before they started getting bigger, and/or more options become available

For example on the API, it would be nice if they offered an "advanced routing module", that gave you more busses and/or auxes that you could put in each channels 500 slot instead of the usual EQ or compressor.

Or maybe somehow offer an "inline" module for that 500 slot in each channel.

Either way, I'm stoked to see how the market pans out over the next couple years.
Old 5th September 2007
  #314
QRS
Gear Maniac
 

Realtugs Quote:
Originally Posted by QRS
great piece - but still a preamp without high pass filter....what a shame!!!

Not sure of the details yet, but...if you look at the button/switch below the pan knob on each channel...it says FLTR. Hmmmmm? Yesterday 05:38 AM


realtugs, yes! i saw it... i hope it´s... a HPF !?
freq-point would be interesting.
and the location would be nice!

but sorry, i don`t have a answer for your in/output/send/return questions... it`s a little chaotic somehow...
Old 5th September 2007
  #315
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

On Echo Sends...
Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
perhaps to inject DAW sends, so DAW and console sends could go to the same outboard effect, for example?
Hi Raal. Good answer. Seems possible, but wouldn't that mean you would actually have to SUM the Echo Send and the External Input for this to work? There's no External Input Level control, so I was assuming you wouldn't be able to do this. I thought it would be either the respective Aux from the desk OR the External Input that would go out the Echo Send. The only thing I was able to really think of was if you wanted to send an External click to the headphones. But if that meant losing an Aux across the board...you'd have to find another way!

I like your suggestion much better and hope it is that way, but I'm not sure would they include a summing amp at that point. Not having a level for the EXT IN is not really a problem as you could just use the level from the DAW. Fingers crossed it's like you've suggested!

On Echo Returns...
Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
can't figure that one out either.
Yeah, this one is REALLY bugging me! I don't know if it has something to do with the 8 extra 500 slots or what? I know those slots can be NORMALLED to the Echo Returns or patched independently, so I can't see how it would be to do with them, really?

It seems they're trying to offer VERY flexible routing, but this one doesn't seem like anything you couldn't do in seconds with a decent patchbay. Unless it's like you've suggested above and you can SUM the Echo Return w/this Aux Input...16 signals through 8 Returns!!! heh

On working in the box... and Consoles 101:The Rudiments
Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
+1
Yeah...this speculating is making me feel like a BIG GREEN NOOB! It would probably be less embarrassing if I, erm, shut up and wait for the real info to hit the streets! I probably won't though...it's too fun.heh

Good times in the audio world. The Chandler desk is going to be fantastic too! I've invested pretty heavily in the 500 series format and have very few 19" Channel Strips...two, to be precise. So I would have to sell A LOT of gear to get into a Chandler desk. If API nails the automation with DAW integration, I will never say those words or give owning the Chandler another thought! I will, however, respect it, and Wade for tapping in to what is going to be the perfect tool for a whole lot of people. Bravo...good times indeed!
Old 5th September 2007
  #316
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by QRS View Post
realtugs, yes! i saw it... i hope it´s... a HPF !?
freq-point would be interesting.
and the location would be nice!

but sorry, i don`t have a answer for your in/output/send/return questions... it`s a little chaotic somehow...
Hi QRS...do you mean my questions were a little chaotic, or what I was actually asking about? If you mean me...I know...I have a horrible time trying to word things clearly sometimes. Sorry if I was confusing.

Either way...all will be revealed soon.

All the best.
Old 5th September 2007
  #317
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
which brings us around to helios. now THERE's a reissue console that might prompt me to sell a kidney.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

Careful bud, careful. Wade from Chandler DOES read this board..... LOL!! You keep talking like that and you might end up missing several vital organs!
Old 5th September 2007
  #318
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GearHunter's Avatar
 

I believe the AUX inputs on the echo returns are so that you can use those as line-level inputs in mix. The switch would let you choose/toggle between the effect return and the aux audio input, without having to re-patch.

In fact, the D-sub might be best used coming from the output of your DAW converter, an Apogee Rosetta db25 output, for instance, and the TRS could be effects returns from outboard reverbs. Have them pre-patched. Then you can choose which signal is coming in with the press of a button.

In tracking, you could be using those echo returns as live monitoring.

Now, I'm still puzzling on the need for aux inputs on the sends...

Obviously you can choose between sending from the channel, OR sending from the aux input.
Old 5th September 2007
  #319
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looks amazing.. I love API gear.
Old 5th September 2007
  #320
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post
I like your suggestion much better and hope it is that way, but I'm not sure would they include a summing amp at that point.
i assumed the 'aux in' button was for that. if it's either/or it could still come in handy sometimes, but if they could be summed it would be quite cool. we'll find out soon enough.

Quote:
Not having a level for the EXT IN is not really a problem as you could just use the level from the DAW.
my thinking too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter View Post
I believe the AUX inputs on the echo returns are so that you can use those as line-level inputs in mix. The switch would let you choose/toggle between the effect return and the aux audio input, without having to re-patch.

In fact, the D-sub might be best used coming from the output of your DAW converter, an Apogee Rosetta db25 output, for instance, and the TRS could be effects returns from outboard reverbs. Have them pre-patched. Then you can choose which signal is coming in with the press of a button.

In tracking, you could be using those echo returns as live monitoring.
makes sense Gearhunter.
Old 5th September 2007
  #321
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vince @ speck's Avatar
 

A signal flow diagram could shed some light on the signal routing and the I/O connections.

Maybe API has something on their site.
Old 5th September 2007
  #322
QRS
Gear Maniac
 

Hi QRS...do you mean my questions were a little chaotic, or what I was actually asking about? If you mean me...I know...I have a horrible time trying to word things clearly sometimes. Sorry if I was confusing.

Either way...all will be revealed soon.

All the best. Today 03:30 PM

hi Realtugs,

no, sorry: api were a little confusing for me - not you/your questions!
they were great!

...this desk looks really very interesting... save my pennys...
Old 6th September 2007
  #323
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Allen Wrench's Avatar
 

Well, it looks like the fickle winds of change have blown everyone to the chandler mixer… come back window shoppers… COME BAACCCKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hahahahah


- ALLEN
Old 6th September 2007
  #324
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter View Post
I believe the AUX inputs on the echo returns are so that you can use those as line-level inputs in mix. The switch would let you choose/toggle between the effect return and the aux audio input, without having to re-patch.

In fact, the D-sub might be best used coming from the output of your DAW converter, an Apogee Rosetta db25 output, for instance, and the TRS could be effects returns from outboard reverbs. Have them pre-patched. Then you can choose which signal is coming in with the press of a button.

In tracking, you could be using those echo returns as live monitoring.

Now, I'm still puzzling on the need for aux inputs on the sends...

Obviously you can choose between sending from the channel, OR sending from the aux input.
Good insights there, Drew. I can definitely see uses for it like you've described, although...I would still want my DAW and outboard outputs connected to a patchbay. I would just have to think about what I wanted normalled to the Returns and Aux Return Inputs.

Thanks for your thoughts, mate. You turned on some lights in my rather dim brain.
Old 6th September 2007
  #325
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vince @ speck View Post
A signal flow diagram could shed some light on the signal routing and the I/O connections.

Maybe API has something on their site.
Hi Vince.

A signal flow diagram would be GREAT...although it may take some fun out of all this speculation! I've sniffed around the API site pretty hard...no luck! I doubt one will surface until the other side of AES. It really would have been nice to see a second line input per channel like the LiLo. I've never had the pleasure, but a very solid looking unit indeed.

All the best.
Old 6th September 2007
  #326
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by QRS View Post
no, sorry: api were a little confusing for me - not you/your questions!
they were great!

...this desk looks really very interesting... save my pennys...
I've got the pennies! I've been squirreling in hopes that something like this would appear sooner or later. Nearly bought a 24 fader D-Command, but REALLY want a hybrid console. I've checked out the SSL AWS 900. Love the DAW integration...automation...recall. Love the Bus Comp, but own a 19" one anyway. Bummed about no expansion and very limited dynamics. Yes, there's X-Racks, but...the 1608 looks much tidier with the expansion slots right there. It just looks Bad-Ass all over!

Put the SSL, Neve, (sneak-peak) Chandler and the 1608 in a room...the API is where I'm sitting first! Obviously I'm going to have to HEAR it...and, unfortunately (Grrrrrrr!), wait until spring 2008 to see how deep the Vision automation is going to go. Unless API wants to start spilling some beans on what and what not to expect? Good way to see what people want and let them know what isn't possible/feasible. Free reaserch right here API...hint hint! Wade is doing it with the Chandler console and it looks like the people may get Solo In Front out of it...I LOVE SOLO IN FRONT!!!

I'm so used to my setup at the moment, that there is really nothing I can't find a way to do, quickly. I'm happy...clients are happy...clients are returning! I've been working hard and I'm now looking for some luxury. REALLY hoping the 1608 is going to tie it all together for me...and many others!
Old 6th September 2007
  #327
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

WOW...I'm really over saturating this thread! The Chandler thread han't even been live two days and it already has over a third of the views as this one! Do you think that has something to do with the creator/GENIUS/manufacturer stopping by to give out info, answer questions, shoot the sh*t, get feedback and integrate requests? Hmmmmm...me thinks it does.

Okay...a couple more questions to try and get some activity here. Don't know how good these are, but...

First- In the 6TK PLAYBACK section of the Control Room Source selector, there is 6 TK 1, 6 TK 2, 6 TK 3 and 6 TK AUX. Where is this AUX fed from?

Second- Power Supply? How big will this be? Old school BIG, Hot & Noisy? Will a manufacturer generally give you a 20'/30' connecting lead to run to a machine room, or would that have to be custom? The power supplies on the consoles I still work on are never my concern...well, so long as they work!

I'm guessing it will be maybe, 4U for the main unit...3U for the expansion??? Or will it be sleek, modern and small?
Old 6th September 2007
  #328
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s_sibs's Avatar
 

Quote:
In the 6TK PLAYBACK section
Pardon my ignorance buy what is a 6TK PLAYBACK section? Surround inputs? Is there any 2TK inputs for say, a cd player to A/B mixes?

Sorry for such a green question...
Old 6th September 2007
  #329
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post
I've got the pennies! I've been squirreling in hopes that something like this would appear sooner or later. Nearly bought a 24 fader D-Command, but REALLY want a hybrid console.
i ended up getting a D-Control + Folcrom and am quite happy, but an all-in-one front end for pres + aux mixer for hardware efx and such is still appealing to me. if faders could follow DAW moves and maybe detented controls for recall were an option, i think a console like this would find a home in many a hybrid rig. i'm sure it will anyway but i'm just sayin'...
Old 6th September 2007
  #330
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
i ended up getting a D-Control and am quite happy, but an all-in-one front end for pres/aux mixer for hardware efx and such is still appealing to me. if faders could follow DAW moves and maybe detented pots for recall were an option, i think console like this would find a home in many a hybrid rig. i'm sure it will anyway but i'm just sayin'...
Yeah Raal...I'm with you there. The D-Control looks great, but I just want to get out of the box for a while. As budgets have gotten smaller, I'm in "Big Rooms" less and less. This would make my studio a dream come true. Who knows? I may go back in the box at some point...but a solid hybrid is where I want to be for the moment.

So yeah...I would rather have limited control of my DAW from my analog console, than extensive control of my DAW from a control surface.

Sing it and repeat, API: Our faders MUST follow DAW moves.
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