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Two pairs of 3-way monitors flipped vertically?
Old 6th November 2020
  #1
Here for the gear
 
Two pairs of 3-way monitors flipped vertically?

As it happens, I'm now in possession of a pair of Adam S3A's and a pair Focal Twin6 Be's. I've had the Adams for a while now, and really love them, but am finding things I really like about the Focals as well. They actually compliment each other quite nicely -- the Focals have a forward but less detailed (slightly "full" or even "boxy") midrange, a more satisfying low end, a smoother high end; while the Adams have a slightly scooped midrange that reveals even the tiniest mix changes, a tighter and dryer (more accurate) low end, and a wider high end. The Adams are so clear and punchy that I find them a bit fatiguing to compose on, but I love them for more surgical work.

So while I could always sell the Focals, I'm thinking it could be cool to somehow fit them both into my rig.

I've always kept the Adams horizontal, but have recently been experimenting with setting both pairs of monitors vertically. Been searching a ton on the forum and like many people I'm finding the imaging really comes alive like this, especially the Adams.

Thing is, as a film/game/TV composer I'm a bit of a nut for screen real estate, so I have three displays and a TV. This is how my rig looked with the Adams set horizontally: https://imgur.com/Tiy1mLd

Since my side screens are so low, the vertical height is just working out, as long as the subs are on top (which sounds fine). But I can't shake the feeling that there must be a reason (beyond $$$ or redundancy) I've not seen anyone set up two pairs of 3-way monitors next to each other. Should I be worried about the bass ports colliding with my screens or the other monitors? I'm also doubtful that either pair could be set up in a perfect equilateral triangle -- one pair will have to be a bit narrow, the other a bit wide. Maybe it's not a huge deal, but also might be a total waste of otherwise great monitors.

I'm going to have to invest in an extra pair of monitor stands before I do this, so I just want to make sure all my bases are covered and have thought it through before I do this. Anyone ever have a setup like this? Would love to hear your thoughts.
Old 6th November 2020
  #2
Lives for gear
 
sell one pair and get a speaker processor with which you can correct minor flaws in the fr or dial in your preferred curve - with mostly linear behavior/'flat' fr, you don't need a second pair anymore.
Old 6th November 2020
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rewgs View Post
<SNIP>
I've always kept the Adams horizontal, but have recently been experimenting with setting both pairs of monitors vertically. Been searching a ton on the forum and like many people I'm finding the imaging really comes alive like this, especially the Adams.

Thing is, as a film/game/TV composer I'm a bit of a dramnut for screen real estate, so I have three displays and a TV. This is how my rig looked with the Adams set horizontally: https://imgur.com/Tiy1mLd

Since my side screens are so low, the vertical height is just working out, as long as the subs are on top (which sounds fine). But I can't shake the feeling that there must be a reason (beyond $$$ or redundancy) I've not seen anyone set up two pairs of 3-way monitors next to each other. Should I be worried about the bass ports colliding with my screens or the other monitors? I'm also doubtful that either pair could be set up in a perfect equilateral triangle -- one pair will have to be a bit narrow, the other a bit wide. Maybe it's not a huge deal, but also might be a total waste of otherwise great monitors.

I'm going to have to invest in an extra pair of monitor stands before I do this, so I just want to make sure all my bases are covered and have thought it through before I do this. Anyone ever have a setup like this? Would love to hear your thoughts.

You'll mess up the dispersion pattern in the room dramatically by putting a speaker meant to be horizontal in the vertical position.

Tweeters should always be "directly above" the next driver (midrange in a 3 way or woofer in a 2 way). The issue is really how the drivers combine and interact at the places where they are both producing the same information (crossover and perhaps as much as 2 octaves above and below crossover depending on slope). Physics says two drivers interacting [at crossover] usually causes cancellations and combining in various ways affecting the total combined dispersion. The end result is typically a narrower vertically and wider horizontally, helping to keep critical energy off the ceiling and floor and a making it wide left to right so you have a area to work in left to right with consistent sound. Rotating them vertically, most direct radiator speakers (except a single way Auratone), will now move its narrower [vertical] dispersion to now be its horizontal dispersion, making the sweet spot smaller and sometimes just a few degrees wide. Exactly what you don't want: narrow sweet spot and more energy on ceiling and floor to mess up imaging. Ive heard sweet spots so msll you move your head an inch left or right and it sounds completely different.

In your case, from your photo, the monitors are boundaries. Your speakers will sound completely different without the monitors. Not sure you can do anything about it, but its definitely affecting things. I'd be experimenting with that more than doing something that for sure will make things worse in the room.

Brad
Old 6th November 2020 | Show parent
  #4
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Lunde View Post
You'll mess up the dispersion pattern in the room dramatically by putting a speaker meant to be horizontal in the vertical position.
Both the Adams and the Focals are fine (and even often preferred) vertical. They are meant to be flipped either way. Adam recommends that the S3As be positioned vertically, and the Focal manual shows vertical positioning as valid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Lunde View Post
In your case, from your photo, the monitors are boundaries. Your speakers will sound completely different without the monitors. Not sure you can do anything about it, but its definitely affecting things. I'd be experimenting with that more than doing something that for sure will make things worse in the room.
That's a good point and is definitely something I've considered. That said, I haven't noticed a difference since adding them to my rig. I was a single display guy for a while and only recently purchased the two side displays, and it's been such a nice addition that I'm not sure I could stand getting rid of them. If my monitoring was obviously worse, it'd be a different story, but at least with the Adams positioned horizontally, there's been zero issues (that I can perceive).
Old 6th November 2020 | Show parent
  #5
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Lunde View Post
Tweeters should always be "directly above" the next driver (midrange in a 3 way or woofer in a 2 way).
not always. i have speakers that have the tweeter between two midrange drivers.. that are my high end speakers, for listening, and judging the endmix.. 3 way by the way (all drivers as you call them in seperate enclosures, and 2 woofers, horizontal placed within there own even more seperate enclosure.. and connected with eachother with a "pole", to reduce resonance, with only one port to output the bass, in the front of the enclosure/cabinet).

my monitors, i agree they aren't the best monitors for mixing, but i know them and have a balanced responce (strangely comparable with my high end speakers, but the low is missing, which in my case is only positive, strangely, i never go wrong in the lows... and have another set, with yes tweeter above woofer in my studio, for checking the lows, it mainly confirms what i have done), are 2 way, and the tweeter is placed between the 2 woofers, and the bass ports are next to the tweeters...

so... to design a good speaker, can be done in different ways.

it is always difficult to place monitors at the right place in the room, where you mix.

but i think the most important thing; is knowing your monitors. once you have experience with them, you don't get surprised on other "sound systems".

so many producing techniques as there are producers.

(and i am nót a producer..)
Old 6th November 2020 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rewgs View Post
Both the Adams and the Focals are fine (and even often preferred) vertical. They are meant to be flipped either way. Adam recommends that the S3As be positioned vertically, and the Focal manual shows vertical positioning as valid.
<SNIP>
I guess the S3A manual I read before I wrote this recommends only horizontal- nothing I noticed about vertical. That is in keeping with the design of the speaker.

Perhaps they ammended it? It would be hard to imagine unless they provided a rotatable tweeter.

On the Focals, yes I see they show it in a vertical postion as one of the options, but I cannot imagine that it works as well that way vs horizontal.

Brad
Old 7th November 2020 | Show parent
  #7
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Lunde View Post
I guess the S3A manual I read before I wrote this recommends only horizontal- nothing I noticed about vertical. That is in keeping with the design of the speaker.

Perhaps they ammended it? It would be hard to imagine unless they provided a rotatable tweeter.

On the Focals, yes I see they show it in a vertical postion as one of the options, but I cannot imagine that it works as well that way vs horizontal.

Brad
I've done my research on this. Search Gearslutz alone and you'll find dozens of threads. Adam reps on this board have stated that they believe the S3As perform better vertically. Plus, my own experience corroborates so many others'.

I also received confirmation from Adam today that rotating the tweeter is not necessary, because it's an A.R.T tweeter, not a true ribbon.

My point of this thread is not to ask about whether these monitors should be placed vertically. If it's there's any drawbacks to having two pairs of monitors of this size placed close enough to each other to retain solid imaging.
Old 18th November 2020 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Lunde View Post
I guess the S3A manual I read before I wrote this recommends only horizontal- nothing I noticed about vertical. That is in keeping with the design of the speaker.

Perhaps they ammended it? It would be hard to imagine unless they provided a rotatable tweeter.

On the Focals, yes I see they show it in a vertical postion as one of the options, but I cannot imagine that it works as well that way vs horizontal.

Brad
yeah i've always wondered about positionality and dispersion of the S3As when flipped. i've since moved on after working with them many years, but Adam did indeed did suggest either vertical or horizontal. i used them both ways and never noticed anything adverse. but anyhow, always thought it was kinda weird too -- it just never made sense to me but i did it anyways
Old 18th November 2020
  #9
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