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High end male vocal microphone with a tight vocal pattern.
Old 26th August 2020
  #1
Deleted 5f4684d
Guest
High end male vocal microphone with a tight vocal pattern.

Hi everyone,

I've been testing a few mics in order to have my vocal chain setup for efficiency and speed. What I want most of all is to have the least room noise picked up from the mic, and a mic that provides a great sound of course!

I recently bought an At 2035 (good cheap mic, can be handled without fearing that you'll break it), recorded a cool song with it.

I received a Neumann kms 105 yesterday and I like the tight pattern on it. Will be more usable than the u87ai I recently sold.

Is there a mic you'd recommend that can be setup for ease and has a few extra patterns for more tightness in the polar pattern?

Right now I'm looking at a few mics that I don't have much experience with, and as far as trying them first? Might be tough in this world environment.

Looking at:

AEA KU4
Tlm 107
Tlm 149 (used it but not in supercardioid)
Gefell um930
Earthworks sv33

Open to suggestions. I'm also looking into the ASC Studio Traps.
Old 26th August 2020
  #2
Wow, hard to imagine a more diverse set of microphones than the ones in your list! Some are considered live mics, others recording mics. It's true that many of them have tight patterns or can be switched to a tight pattern, but they all sound completely different from one another. Their pricing is all over the map, too. (Did you mean the to list the M149 or the TLM49?)

What kind of singer are you, and what kind of sound do you even want? Did you hate the sound of the U87, or did it just not work in your untreated room? If the latter, I'd certainly have advised some simple acoustical measures, like the GIK PIB's I bought for my house. But since you've got a KMS 105 now, I'm thinking you should use it for a while and decide if you like it or not. Maybe you'll like Neumann's attempt at building a "live" mic and maybe you'll decide to move back in the direction of a studio mic.

Studio mics of modern design often offer multiple pattern choices, including some intermediate ones that don't have names. That's true of the both the TLM 107 and the M149. (Neither sounds at all like a U87, BTW.) Some vintage-inspired tube mics have a continuous pattern control on the power supply. A number of recent FET mics make both capsule outputs available so you can record both and change the pattern in your DAW. So it's possible to dial in a very tight pattern on many studio mics which can make them a bit more tolerant of dodgy acoustics. Just understand that the frequency response of the mic changes a bit as you do that, so it's sometimes a balancing act between the curve you want, the pattern you'd like, and the amount of proximity effect you can stand.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Old 26th August 2020
  #3
Lives for gear
Rather than being specific about a mic, you will want mic's with a tight pattern. Supper-cart will often be the best balance.
Attached Thumbnails
High end male vocal microphone with a tight vocal pattern.-polarpatterns.jpg   High end male vocal microphone with a tight vocal pattern.-polar-patterns.jpg  
Old 26th August 2020
  #4
Deleted 5f4684d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick View Post
Wow, hard to imagine a more diverse set of microphones than the ones in your list! Some are considered live mics, others recording mics. It's true that many of them have tight patterns or can be switched to a tight pattern, but they all sound completely different from one another. Their pricing is all over the map, too. (Did you mean the to list the M149 or the TLM49?)

What kind of singer are you, and what kind of sound do you even want? Did you hate the sound of the U87, or did it just not work in your untreated room? If the latter, I'd certainly have advised some simple acoustical measures, like the GIK PIB's I bought for my house. But since you've got a KMS 105 now, I'm thinking you should use it for a while and decide if you like it or not. Maybe you'll like Neumann's attempt at building a "live" mic and maybe you'll decide to move back in the direction of a studio mic.

Studio mics of modern design often offer multiple pattern choices, including some intermediate ones that don't have names. That's true of the both the TLM 107 and the M149. (Neither sounds at all like a U87, BTW.) Some vintage-inspired tube mics have a continuous pattern control on the power supply. A number of recent FET mics make both capsule outputs available so you can record both and change the pattern in your DAW. So it's possible to dial in a very tight pattern on many studio mics which can make them a bit more tolerant of dodgy acoustics. Just understand that the frequency response of the mic changes a bit as you do that, so it's sometimes a balancing act between the curve you want, the pattern you'd like, and the amount of proximity effect you can stand.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
I was looking at the GIK PIB today actually so it seems like you read my mind. I was also checking out the Tubetraps, I already have bass traps but I think the tubetraps might be better. I have about 10 fiberglass panels right now but I think the space could be dryer.

I did mean m149 sorry for the confusion. I didn't like the u87ai, it's the 3rd time I buy and sell one. I'm trying to have it setup so that if I need to sing I can do it in front of the computer without getting odd room noises. So yeah i think I will look into better panels and diffusers for my room first.
Old 27th August 2020
  #5
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Al Rogers's Avatar
I haven't used the KU4 but I own the more affordable AEA KU5A which is a hypercardioid ribbon microphone designed for nearfield use. There is a built in electronic high pass filter which lets you sing as close to the mic as you would with any stage mic. It's very useful.

I can play an acoustic guitar while recording my vocal with the KU5A and the vocal track is almost completely free of bleed. It's also a great choice for recording my Princeton Reverb combo amp. I recommend it highly.

Last edited by Al Rogers; 27th August 2020 at 03:30 PM..
Old 27th August 2020
  #6
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Also Beyer M88TG. Just ask Bob Ohlsson. (or Drumsound/or The High Tenor/ or etc...)
Otherwise you will just have to listen to Phil Collins' "Greatest Hits"!


FWIW when Wes Dooley/AEA has listened to me sing, because I tend to move a bit... He recommended the N22. All the AEA mics are way cool though.
Chris
Old 27th August 2020
  #7
Why do you want such a narrow pickup pattern? You're recording in an untreated room?

One of the tightest that are used in highend studios is the sm7b. You can record vocals with speakers blasting without any problems.

I've used u67 recorded with speakers playing instead of headphones with great result.

So it's a good idea for you to explain a little more in depth so people are able to help
Old 27th August 2020
  #8
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b0se's Avatar
The UM930 is mentioned here a lot, but I tested a lot of mics (including all the top Gefells; UM930 etc) and picked the M990. Easily the best for male vocals imo.

Legato posted this a while back, it's what put the M990 on my radar:

Quote:
Around the turn of the century there was a blind tube microphone shootout. In this test the big studios from my country (The Netherlands) participated. All the usual suspects were there, including Neumann, Brauner, Sony, Manley etc. There were three Microtech Gefells viz. UM92.1s, M990, and UM900. Of the three Gefells the UM900 was liked the least. Again, of the Gefells that is. The M990 came out on top, not only regarding the Gefells, but overall.
One thing I love about the it - feels like quite a tight pattern and doesn't absorb much of the room (compared to the REDD etc). Currently using it with a NOS Mullard EF86 tube, which adds a pinch more body and smooths the top.

I had the AEA KU5A here due to being Super Cardioid and wasn't blown away by it. YMMV of course!

Edit: FWIW my concept EP Iridescent was via SM7B and a vocoder, working on 'traditional' stuff as we speak using M990 > Weight Tank WT-72.

Last edited by b0se; 27th August 2020 at 09:10 AM..
Old 27th August 2020
  #9
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellohead View Post
I've been testing a few mics in order to have my vocal chain setup for efficiency and speed. What I want most of all is to have the least room noise picked up from the mic, and a mic that provides a great sound of course!

Open to suggestions.
I have both a Gefell M930 and a Shure SM7B - as 'crille' says, the latter is a slam-dunk if you want a no hassle perma-setup that you can almost record keeper vocals with even with the kids tearing up the house, the dog barking and a thunderstorm taking place outside. Same with M88TG as well.

Dynamics tend to be better at room rejection, but that's a huge generalisation and by no means the law. And there are other considerations to using dynamics in terms of overall timbre and preamp gain etc - and as we've no idea of your voice, your set-up and it's hard to be precise.

All you've really said so far is you "don't like the U87ai" - is this because of the sound of the mic, or that it doesn't play nice with your preamps, or you don't like the shock mount, or because it's too sensitive and picks up too much of your room?
Old 27th August 2020
  #10
It's possible a U89 might be just what you're looking for. 5 patterns including cardioid, wide cardioid and super-cardioid can definitely be useful. And it is a very neutral sound with an airy lift from 5k-20k
Old 27th August 2020
  #11
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edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ward Pike View Post
It's possible a U89 might be just what you're looking for. 5 patterns including cardioid, wide cardioid and super-cardioid can definitely be useful. And it is a very neutral sound with an airy lift from 5k-20k
Very nice microphone.
And I have to respectfully disagree with the notion that the Sm7b has great rejection. I have a lot of experience with it, and it always surprises me when people say that.
Maybe because the sensitivity is so low? Maybe because the foam is so thick?
I mean, compared to a condenser, yeah, better rejection, but objectively on its own, it's a cardioid mic, almost a wide cardioid really, and picks up stray sounds, well, kinda like a 58.
I don't say that with negativity or criticism, just to provide a different perspective on this one characteristic, to newbie potential buyers/users of the mic.
IMHO. YMMV. Good luck.
Old 27th August 2020
  #12
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Oldone's Avatar
Yeah, glad you made the correction from TLM149 to M149. The TLM is an overpriced mic and after owning one for a few months, it had to go. So limited in what it works on.

The M149 is a very versatile mic and works for a lot of things but you have to find the right pattern setting because the characteristics of the capsule change dramatically going from "meh" to killer sound depending on the source and pattern setting. When nothing else works, the M149 pulls in something that's useable. It has won shootouts here up against a Telefunken Elektroakustic U47 which usually is my go to mic. Just thought I would relay my experience with these two mics.
Old 27th August 2020
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Also the Blue Blueberry was designed to be used very close up. Very nice "Modern" tone. Just a thought.
Chris
Old 30th August 2020
  #14
Deleted 5f4684d
Guest
Thanks everyone for the advices, I'm looking into a bunch of options now.

This is what I'm using now, c800g omni/Redd/Burl. I may go for a Reissue 67 maybe.
Attached Files
Old 30th August 2020
  #15
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Sounds great HH!
Now imagine how much greater that'll sound, with a SE X1.

Chris
Old 30th August 2020
  #16
Gear Addict
 
plainofjars's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellohead View Post
Thanks everyone for the advices, I'm looking into a bunch of options now.

This is what I'm using now, c800g omni/Redd/Burl. I may go for a Reissue 67 maybe.
This mic seems very well suited to you.
Old 30th August 2020
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellohead View Post
Hi everyone,

I've been testing a few mics in order to have my vocal chain setup for efficiency and speed. What I want most of all is to have the least room noise picked up from the mic, and a mic that provides a great sound of course!

I recently bought an At 2035 (good cheap mic, can be handled without fearing that you'll break it), recorded a cool song with it.

I received a Neumann kms 105 yesterday and I like the tight pattern on it. Will be more usable than the u87ai I recently sold.

Is there a mic you'd recommend that can be setup for ease and has a few extra patterns for more tightness in the polar pattern?

Right now I'm looking at a few mics that I don't have much experience with, and as far as trying them first? Might be tough in this world environment.

Looking at:

AEA KU4
Tlm 107
Tlm 149 (used it but not in supercardioid)
Gefell um930
Earthworks sv33

Open to suggestions. I'm also looking into the ASC Studio Traps.
Have you thought about the SE Reflection Filter or something similar? That way you can choose a mic purely for the love of tone without having to worry about pickup pattern and room noises.
Old 30th August 2020
  #18
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelrod View Post
Have you thought about the SE Reflection Filter or something similar? That way you can choose a mic purely for the love of tone without having to worry about pickup pattern and room noises.
If a reflection filter would let you choose any mic in any room, we wouldn't need booths and treated rooms to record in :¬)

They can help, but it's still all about the room, mic choice and mic placement. You're much better off getting a super cardioid mic if the room sucks.

(I own the Space and am now selling it - had it before room was properly treated.)
Old 30th August 2020
  #19
Deleted 5f4684d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by plainofjars View Post
This mic seems very well suited to you.
You don't think that there's maybe a better mic option for my voice? i admit that since I’ve started using the c800g in omni mode a week ago, it's been sounding more even and less hard on the esses. The de esser deals with random esses perfectly.

I use an Aston Filter with it and a Primacoustic vocal booth, and I've cut out the Tubetech cl1b from the recording chain.

I have the option to buy a u67 reissue for 5k usd, so thats why i was contemplating that option. If there was a vintage u67 for sale in Canada, i would have bought one.

Not sure if I was really hot the day i used the vintage u67 last, but the track i did has a **** ton of feeling in the vocals, and the performance is amazing. It'll probably get 10 million streams indie once it's out.
Old 30th August 2020
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellohead View Post
You don't think that there's maybe a better mic option for my voice? i admit that since I’ve started using the c800g in omni mode a week ago, it's been sounding more even and less hard on the esses. The de esser deals with random esses perfectly.

I use an Aston Filter with it and a Primacoustic vocal booth, and I've cut out the Tubetech cl1b from the recording chain.

I have the option to buy a u67 reissue for 5k usd, so thats why i was contemplating that option. If there was a vintage u67 for sale in Canada, i would have bought one.

Not sure if I was really hot the day i used the vintage u67 last, but the track i did has a **** ton of feeling in the vocals, and the performance is amazing. It'll probably get 10 million streams indie once it's out.
Ask your local dealer about used or demo reissue units.

Are **** and **** both filtered out here by the robots?
Old 30th August 2020
  #21
Deleted 5f4684d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ward Pike View Post
Ask your local dealer about used or demo reissue units.

Are **** and **** both filtered out here by the robots?
Yep sh it gets filtered. I can definitely ask for a demo unit, would be a lot easier if Covid wasn't a thing, so i don't feel like I'm gonna catch something while trying a mic.
Old 30th August 2020
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 5f4684d View Post
Yep sh it gets filtered. I can definitely ask for a demo unit, would be a lot easier if Covid wasn't a thing, so i don't feel like I'm gonna catch something while trying a mic.
You're always at risk of catching some communicable disease that you do not have an immunity built up to. Protect yourself in the manner you deem necessary to be as safe as possible and then go about your business.

I'll guarantee you, there's a demo model available. Dealers in Canada include Long & McQuade and Studio Economik. I have dealt with both and find good knowledgable people there. Especially https://www.economik.ca
Old 30th August 2020
  #23
Deleted 5f4684d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ward Pike View Post
You're always at risk of catching some communicable disease that you do not have an immunity built up to. Protect yourself in the manner you deem necessary to be as safe as possible and then go about your business.

I'll guarantee you, there's a demo model available. Dealers in Canada include Long & McQuade and Studio Economik. I have dealt with both and find good knowledgable people there. Especially https://www.economik.ca
Yeah there's a demo at economik right now so I'll hit them up. I already hit them up this week for something else.
Old 30th August 2020
  #24
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellohead View Post
You don't think that there's maybe a better mic option for my voice? i admit that since I’ve started using the c800g in omni mode a week ago, it's been sounding more even and less hard on the esses. The de esser deals with random esses perfectly.

I use an Aston Filter with it and a Primacoustic vocal booth, and I've cut out the Tubetech cl1b from the recording chain.

I have the option to buy a u67 reissue for 5k usd, so thats why i was contemplating that option. If there was a vintage u67 for sale in Canada, i would have bought one.

Not sure if I was really hot the day i used the vintage u67 last, but the track i did has a **** ton of feeling in the vocals, and the performance is amazing. It'll probably get 10 million streams indie once it's out.
I think a Wunder CM7 Suprema would suit your voice.

http://www.wunderaudio.com/cm7s/

Examples here (second row of vids):

http://www.wunderaudio.com/video_mic_demos/
Old 30th August 2020
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
If a reflection filter would let you choose any mic in any room, we wouldn't need booths and treated rooms to record in :¬)

They can help, but it's still all about the room, mic choice and mic placement. You're much better off getting a super cardioid mic if the room sucks.

(I own the Space and am now selling it - had it before room was properly treated.)
That’s not what I said at all but thanks for your worthless input.
Old 30th August 2020
  #26
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelrod View Post
That’s not what I said at all but thanks for your worthless input.
Then perhaps correct my misunderstanding and explain what you mean rather than taking it personally and throwing insults?
Old 30th August 2020
  #27
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Then perhaps correct my misunderstanding and explain what you mean rather than taking it personally and throwing insults?
My initial post doesn’t require further explanation.
Old 30th August 2020
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellohead View Post
Thanks everyone for the advices, I'm looking into a bunch of options now.

This is what I'm using now, c800g omni/Redd/Burl. I may go for a Reissue 67 maybe.
Sure seems like you can afford some room treatment if you can afford a c800g, Redd.47, 67ri, etc .. no?
I have to assume you’ll simply get better results with these expensive tools in a treated space, and a full set of realtraps will cost far less than that 67ri

..but you probably know all this.. I’m sure you have your reasons..
Old 30th August 2020
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelrod View Post
That’s not what I said at all but thanks for your worthless input.
What a strange and unnecessarily hostile response.

I owned an SE reflexion filter for years. Once I treated my room the thing was never used again, and the results I did get with it in the untreated room were never even close to the sound I get today in a moderately treated room. The room and the mic both still mattered 100%.

What you said was:

Quote:
you can choose a mic purely for the love of tone without having to worry about pickup pattern and room noises.
.. but in use, I did not find that to be the case at all, particularly with sensitive, higher-end LDCs.

There was no insult in Bose's response, so I'm honestly not clear why you seem insulted. No offense is intended here either, just a discussion on the question of managing room sound.

In my untreated room, the reflexion filter did help cut down reflections on quiet sources with sensitive mics, but I was always still fighting the room. It's a decent cost-effective tool for solving the specific problem of working in an overly reflective room.

However, there is, in my opinion at least, no comparison between that device and a properly (or even moderately) treated room in which you can both control and actively use the room sound to the advantage of the recording. I lean pretty heavily on room sound because I prefer a nice sounding room to the type of disembodied, heavily isolated performances that seem to be favored in modern pop. It's probably just a taste thing, but I now get to use the room sound, which beats the crap out of trying to hide from it.

Just my 2c.
Old 30th August 2020
  #30
My experience with an SE reflection filter is that it depends on the mic. My NT1a sounded a lot better in a boxy room with the filter. My 3U mic did not sound very good with the filter and there was obvious comb filtering. I suppose the pickup patterns are different and that the 3U is more sensitive. Now I have 3 GIK panels arranged in a corner with a small bass trap and blanket behind me. Very good results.

Last edited by Aktuba; 30th August 2020 at 07:51 PM.. Reason: typo
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