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Home Studio Guys and Old Neve Consoles....
Old 5th August 2020
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Home Studio Guys and Old Neve Consoles....

Its just hilarious!!..81 and 82, 51,53, 55 and 66, V, VR, 88R. All of them were six figures when new. You need EE chops or a techshop to keep them going. You need special tools and rare parts that are EXPENSIVE. They need a special environment with HVAC and power requirements that home studio guy is going to choke on as the years pass.

81 and 82,51, 53 and VR types are, some of them anyways,are approaching, or more than 40 years old.... Which means they need WAY MORE than a recap.

AMS/Neve has created a market for you home studio guys.

For the cost of buying, shipping and refurbishing a 40 plus year old 3/4 tonne doorstop, you can buy a New bunch of channelstrips, 500 series type stuff, heck, AMS/NEVE even has a new console aimed at home studio/bedroom guy, the 8424.

Why on earth are you, undercapitalized homestudio guy, even THINKING about something like a 40 year old piece of electronic gear?

A tech who knows these beasties costs more than $100 dollars an hour. Need Engineering and modification work? EE design on the hourly is about $400 an hour. YOU CANT AFFORD IT!!! Your money is best spent on plugins and a small array of analog gear for "VERSIMILITUDE"....


And Oh yeah, you think the AMS/NEVE techshop is going to get back to you when you need parts or support for your, uHm, project??
Well, undercapitalized home studio guy, AMS NEVE puts their expensive top of the line consoles in the studios of some of the most well known names in Media and Music. You are going to be the LAST GUY on their list to give support to....
Old 5th August 2020
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Generally it’s folks that can afford these that are buying them not real studios!
Old 6th August 2020
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut View Post
Generally it’s folks that can afford these that are buying them not real studios!
Oh, so I guess a "Home Studio Guy" whom...

Has the money to finance and maintain a console like the ones I mentioned above is not a "real studio"??

Like a producer or musician with credits and clients?

I would call that a "real studio"...

A guy who Has a 3k budget and no skills to repair a 25 to 30 year old Neve has no business having one.

Or a guy that bought one back in the day for $5k that was maybe maintained but has sat in storage for 10 years and is now a total basketcase and has no skills should maybe sell that thing, and buy something he can actually afford.

All Im saying is... A Neve that costs 5k, costs 25 to 30k and hundreds of hours to make it work the way it was intended.

It is silly and wishful to think otherwise. Just because you have a busted down broke ass used up NEVE up in your jacked up "Studio" does not mean it will bring in the clients.

Home studio and Bedroom guys have a choice these days....
Old 6th August 2020
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKMK00 View Post

It is silly and wishful to think otherwise. Just because you have a busted down broke ass used up NEVE up in your jacked up "Studio" does not mean it will bring in the clients.
It does give you cred on the instagram pics though.

You know the pic of sitting in front of the console looking serious like you are about to lay a BIG ONE right there in the control room.
Old 6th August 2020
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Yep.. i fall into that camp now also.

Have a nice lil analogue console (Neotek) and truckloads of desirable outboard which i love.

The biggest issue these days I find is actually finding someone to do the work as those folks that grew up on these are retiring or passing on I've found or dont want to do house visits especially nowdays!

Would i like a 53 series Neve.. sure! i can afford one but i cant justify it at the end of the day as there are more pressing concerns in my life than a something i can IG about and use a few weekends a month in my home studio.

One day i will have something like that or an SSL but they too come with maintenance issues which are kinda putting me off despite them becoming so affordable for what they are.

Thrill can talk all day about his one on this subject I'm sure.!
Old 6th August 2020
  #6
Lives for gear
 

The 70's 53 series are a good investment unlike the others
listed above.

They run on one or two small power supplies that are the
same as the 80 series consoles ones, run far cooler, simple circuit
that's easy to maintain and have the cassette preamps and
eq's that are worth 1000's each and are easy to sell or rack if parting
the console out later.

I sometimes use an early 70's melbourn sidecar at a local studio
and it sounds killer, full of iron..

The other big consoles listed by OP like VR's etc.. are 1980's
consoles that require machine rooms and constant work but some
people may like that. Live and let live..
Old 6th August 2020
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P View Post
The 70's 53 series are a good investment unlike the others
listed above.
Not to your accountant is not.

And the reason people consider the other Neves is that they can be found cheap and a 53 series you will never find cheap.
Old 6th August 2020
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Not to your accountant is not.

And the reason people consider the other Neves is that they can be found cheap and a 53 series you will never find cheap.
too true, those days are sadly gone..
Old 6th August 2020
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P View Post
too true, those days are sadly gone..
By the way, if anyone can get an 81 series working, its a really nice sounding console. It has the Neve flavor, especially the EQs which I liked. Lots of great recordings in the 80's were done on them.
Old 6th August 2020
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
By the way, if anyone can get an 81 series working, its a really nice sounding console. It has the Neve flavor, especially the EQs which I liked. Lots of great recordings in the 80's were done on them.
There are some good ones in Europe for sale at the moment but wary of the routing panel naffdom!
Old 7th August 2020
  #11
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UKMK00 View Post
Its just hilarious!!..81 and 82, 51,53, 55 and 66, V, VR, 88R. All of them were six figures when new. You need EE chops or a techshop to keep them going. You need special tools and rare parts that are EXPENSIVE. They need a special environment with HVAC and power requirements that home studio guy is going to choke on as the years pass.

81 and 82,51, 53 and VR types are, some of them anyways,are approaching or more than 40 years old.... Which means they need WAY MORE than a recap.

AMS/Neve has created a market for you home studio guys.

For the cost of buying, shipping and refurbishing a 40 plus year old 3/4 tonne doorstop, you can buy a New bunch of channelstrips, 500 series type stuff, heck, AMS/NEVE even has a new console aimed at home studio/bedroom guy, the 8424.

Why on earth are you, undercapitalized homestudio guy, even THINKING about something like a 40 year old piece of electronic gear?

A tech who knows these beasties costs more than $100 dollars an hour. Need Engineering and modification work? EE design on the hourly is about $400 an hour. YOU CANT AFFORD IT!!! Your money is best spent on plugins and a small array of analog gear for "VERSIMILITUDE"....


And Oh yeah, you think the AMS/NEVE techshop is going to get back to you when you need parts or support for your, uHm, project??
Well, undercapitalized home studio guy, AMS NEVE puts their expensive top of the line consoles in the studios of some of the most well known names in Media and Music. You are going to be the LAST GUY on their list to give support to....
Feel better now?
Old 7th August 2020
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkb911T View Post
Feel better now?

I do. Thanks.
Old 7th August 2020
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
By the way, if anyone can get an 81 series working, its a really nice sounding console. It has the Neve flavor, especially the EQs which I liked. Lots of great recordings in the 80's were done on them.
81s are quite nice. As are 51s. 51s equipped with the discrete opamp outputs feeding the Carnhill Orange VT xformers are really something. 51s have that Differential 25 volt output section, give the console lots of headroom. 81s have the differential 18 volt output, 6 on a card. not discrete, like the 51. The 4 section EQ on 51 and 81 are pretty much identical. 51s also came with the 2 band EQ also.

I do like those 80s Neves. Difficult to maintain. Parts are expensive, and are just impossible to come by...

And by 80s, I mean the ones they made in the 80s. The ones with transformers and IC chips, bucketloads of em. Even the 53, with its mostly discrete layout has chips. And the 51s are amazing hybrids of discrete, IC, PCB, Ribbon, and Hand soldered, handwired assembly.
Old 7th August 2020
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKMK00 View Post
81s are quite nice. As are 51s. 51s equipped with the discrete opamp outputs feeding the Carnhill Orange VT xformers are really something. 51s have that Differential 25 volt output section, give the console lots of headroom. 81s have the differential 18 volt output, 6 on a card. not discrete, like the 51. The 4 section EQ on 51 and 81 are pretty much identical. 51s also came with the 2 place EQ also.
The EQ is definitely cool sounding. Its built for sweeping and boosting. Unlike the older stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UKMK00 View Post
I do like those 80s Neves. Difficult to maintain. Parts are expensive, and are just impossible to come by...
Anything is attainable if you can afford it. But that's the biggest challenge. Buying an older 80 series Neve is like buying an old Rolls Royce. Everything is made by hand, carefully and customized. You can't help but marvel at the attention and detail.

You don't buy it not knowing that it will need upkeep and love. But its an expensive purchase meant for a certain few. They weren't built for everyone. And they still command a significant investment. If you are rich or don't have to worry about money, then if you can afford one and have always wanted then yeah go for it. Life is short. Why not enjoy it?
Old 7th August 2020
  #15
Lives for gear
 
James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UKMK00 View Post
Why on earth are you, undercapitalized homestudio guy, even THINKING about something like a 40 year old piece of electronic gear? YOU CANT AFFORD IT!!! AMS NEVE puts their expensive top of the line consoles in the studios of some of the most well known names in Media and Music. You are going to be the LAST GUY on their list to give support to....
I suppose these kinds of scattershot broadsides against an entirely imagined enemy have a certain vintage charm all of their own.
Old 7th August 2020
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

if you have a passion in electronics and the Patience to restore and maintain a console it can be very rewarding to do so. Have had loads of fun restoring old lower tier consoles would love to do a Neve one day
Old 7th August 2020
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann View Post
I suppose these kinds of scattershot broadsides against an entirely imagined enemy have a certain vintage charm all of their own.
You would think so, but its actually true. And Im not talking about AMS/NEVE service dept, IF they are responding to their new stuff, not legacy and vintage gear support. They MIGHT call back once, to see Who/what....Once they determine you are "undercapitalized home studio guy", you will not hear from them again...
Old 7th August 2020
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blissy View Post
if you have a passion in electronics and the Patience to restore and maintain a console it can be very rewarding to do so. Have had loads of fun restoring old lower tier consoles would love to do a Neve one day
You forgot the most important part of the equation .... MONEY!!! Passion for electronics and patience are certainly needed, But you Need "MONEY" to really make an old NEVE work as intended.

And BTW, i will take being competent over passionate any day.
Old 7th August 2020
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UKMK00 View Post
You forgot the most important part of the equation .... MONEY!!! Passion for electronics and patience are certainly needed, But you Need "MONEY" to really make an old NEVE work as intended.

And BTW, i will take being competent over passionate any day.
Sorry I assumed Money and Competence were already part of the equation. Agreed You really want to make sure you know what you are getting yourself into before jumping in!
Old 7th August 2020
  #20
80 series usually have mechanical issues, just worn parts. 81 series sound like a pillow on your ears. Newer opamps, cap replacements (they used 100 uf 4 volt caps that distort at today's higher digital signal levels) and other work get those humming but it's an enormous amount of work.

V series run hot and benefit from the new low power opamps like OPA1641, OPA1662, OPA1652, and OPA1692. Then most of the el coupling caps can be removed.
Old 7th August 2020
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

V51....those dialstat switches!! Fark me dead !

I nearly considered doing a run of 10,000 So I could buy one and not have to think about that issue. I got over it and moved on ha!
Old 7th August 2020
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut View Post
V51....those dialstat switches!! Fark me dead !

I nearly considered doing a run of 10,000 So I could buy one and not have to think about that issue. I got over it and moved on ha!

The switches are rebuildable. The contacts are made of silver, so they will never wear out. They have to be cleaned with a silver cleaner, and if the little plastic detent is nackered, you can buy those and replace them.

Thats hardly the worst problem with 51s. Each channel has a hand soldered 64 pin analog connector, inside the chassis. At this point in time, that connector is usually corroded to the degree that the solder cannot hold the wire to the pin. The terminations at those connectors are the 6 power supply voltages, 7 or 8 return wires, and 4 to 8 multicore audio cables.

Unless you redo all of those connections, you will constantly be coming up against weird intermittent lamp and audio problems. Its a big tedious job, but has to be done for reliable operation. IN ADDITION TO the channelstrips being completely reworked.

Like I said, 51s are great, but they are alot of work to maintain.
Old 8th August 2020
  #23
Even in the land of old consoles and lots of techs - Nashville, where I run my shop - old consoles have so many other considerations, workflow and speed chief among them. I’d love to make the jump, and probably will sometime in the next two years, but it’s going to slow me down for some time while I integrate it into what I’ve already been doing for years - even in the analog domain. And in today’s business, speed is the name of the game, so slowdowns are no bueno!

Pretty much everyone I know who mixes on a big console has workarounds for speed. It’s not like they’re resetting everything on the console every time - recordmaking moves too fast these days.

I say “almost everyone” because there are a few, but you’ll find hybrid setups far more often than not in the rooms of name mix guys.

Tracking, of course, is a different story. Love big consoles for that, of course, but even then so many people integrate outboard preamps in that workflow anyway.
Old 8th August 2020
  #24
Lives for gear
 
StillCrazy's Avatar
 

MONEY

Quote:
Originally Posted by UKMK00 View Post
Its just hilarious!!..81 and 82, 51,53, 55 and 66, V, VR, 88R. All of them were six figures when new. You need EE chops or a techshop to keep them going. You need special tools and rare parts that are EXPENSIVE. They need a special environment with HVAC and power requirements that home studio guy is going to choke on as the years pass.

81 and 82,51, 53 and VR types are, some of them anyways,are approaching, or more than 40 years old.... Which means they need WAY MORE than a recap.

AMS/Neve has created a market for you home studio guys.

For the cost of buying, shipping and refurbishing a 40 plus year old 3/4 tonne doorstop, you can buy a New bunch of channelstrips, 500 series type stuff, heck, AMS/NEVE even has a new console aimed at home studio/bedroom guy, the 8424.

Why on earth are you, undercapitalized homestudio guy, even THINKING about something like a 40 year old piece of electronic gear?

A tech who knows these beasties costs more than $100 dollars an hour. Need Engineering and modification work? EE design on the hourly is about $400 an hour. YOU CANT AFFORD IT!!! Your money is best spent on plugins and a small array of analog gear for "VERSIMILITUDE"....


And Oh yeah, you think the AMS/NEVE techshop is going to get back to you when you need parts or support for your, uHm, project??
Well, undercapitalized home studio guy, AMS NEVE puts their expensive top of the line consoles in the studios of some of the most well known names in Media and Music. You are going to be the LAST GUY on their list to give support to....
What's your issue on how someone spends their money?
Old 8th August 2020
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillCrazy View Post
What's your issue on how someone spends their money?
I think that people who do not have enough money, and no electronic skills, have better ways to spend their time and money. They really have no business trying to own an old piece of electronic gear...Sell it for something you can actually use to make music, for crissakes!!! Isn't that the whole point?

You can do much better with AMS/Neve or the new Rupert Neve line of products, than buying a 42 year old boat anchor.

And PMing me for free schematics and advice on how to troubleshoot or even how to use a voltmeter.

Its silly. "Let me see if this stranger on the internet can help me resurrect the mistake sitting in my storage locker, that my wife or partner keeps asking me to get rid of "....


Or how about the doofus asking for schematics for his 51 console that turned out to not even be a 51 console, and something else completely?

I mean, if you buy a piece of gear, arent you making a commitment to learn it inside out?... I am....
Buying something old implies that you will need to fix it, or spend money to get it fixed. Not rely on the extreme kindness of strangers on the internet and free technical help to fix it. Its "Pie in the Skyism", at its worst.
Old 8th August 2020
  #26
Lives for gear
 
voodoo4u's Avatar
I'm not entirely understanding your gripe. If there are a few of these old consoles around and you don't think home studio guys are the right fit for them and neither are working commercial studios, where do think these old consoles should end up? Maybe it would suit you to see them all parted out like a lot of the old 80 series. Personally, I think that it would be a sad day to realize they've all been (de-)parted.
Old 8th August 2020
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo4u View Post
where do think these old consoles should end up?
The "Island of the Misfit Toys" of course!

Old 8th August 2020
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
Liquidaudio's Avatar
 

Getting one of these consoles is like maintaining an old vintage car. You take pride in owning it. They're sonic legends.

Some guys dream about a big boat, some want a console. I personally have an SSL 4K and I take pride in owning one because it doesn't need an introduction. It's sitting in my private home studio with some bits of outboard. I don't need anything else.

I actually love taking care of it, I love it more than my girlfriend, so... just don't tell her...

I would honestly not even know where I should spend money on, I only care about audio gear, perhaps clothing, vacations. I'm a middle class working man, just to clarify.
Old 8th August 2020
  #29
I know a guy who thinks the 73/84/81 etc modules have NEVER needed any service, and have never failed electronically since they were originally built 45 years ago

Old 8th August 2020
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo4u View Post
I'm not entirely understanding your gripe. If there are a few of these old consoles around and you don't think home studio guys are the right fit for them and neither are working commercial studios, where do think these old consoles should end up? Maybe it would suit you to see them all parted out like a lot of the old 80 series. Personally, I think that it would be a sad day to realize they've all been (de-)parted.

Its a bit nuanced. Do you have enough money to A. Restore the console to its former factory perfection?

Or, B. If you dont exactly have the money, you have skills and tools then, and can maintain it and fix it when it breaks.

You dont mind paying a person who knows the console inside and out, more than 100 dollars an hour to fix it.

You dont go looking for complicated solutions to electronic problems on internet forums and message boards. You call the tech whom you pay vast sums of money to keep your vintage mixer in good working order.

You Have the drawings and technical books for the console on hand.

You can interpret these drawings. And maybe understand how your complicated vintage electronic indulgence works.

I am not against people owning a vintage console.


But, if you read some of the posts around here, and answer your private messages, you get the idea that there are more people owning these things that are totally clueless, that SHOULD NOT own them.

People should do what they want with their money.
But they should also have a clue as to WHAT they are ACTUALLY buying, and what the ACTUAL COST is in Time and Money...
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