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Does Everyone in High End Forum use Pro Tools?
Old 12th July 2020
  #1
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drockfresh's Avatar
Does Everyone in High End Forum use Pro Tools?

Is it still a fact that most non-hobby studios are running Pro-Tools and every engineer needs to know Pro-Tools, or are some of you running Reaper/Logic/Etc?

I run Reaper and Studio One in my private project studio but was wondering if every engineer should have a copy of Pro-Tools to dabble with and learn the basic interface in case it comes up at some point.
Old 12th July 2020
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
but was wondering if every engineer should have a copy of Pro-Tools to dabble with and learn the basic interface in case it comes up at some point.
One word answer...yes.

At my place i use ProTools, Logic and Digital Performer.
All the programs me and my clients use. And even though its cumbersome, we switch files between each all the time. Having someone who knows the ins and outs of all is greatly appreciated.
Old 12th July 2020
  #3
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
One word answer...yes.

At my place i use ProTools, Logic and Digital Performer.
All the programs me and my clients use. And even though its cumbersome, we switch files between each all the time. Having someone who knows the ins and outs of all is greatly appreciated.
Do you prefer Logic and DP, but keep ProTools for compatibility?
Old 12th July 2020
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Do you prefer Logic and DP, but keep ProTools for compatibility?
I exclusively mix in ProTools.

I produce in Logic, as well as some of the producers i an interact with on the label.

There are still some artists/producers/film composers that i engineer for that use Digital Performer as their composing platform and being able to dump files or make last minute changes for them is a god send. Not to mention when writing scores, some of the midi features are still better in DP.
Old 12th July 2020
  #5
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pentagon's Avatar
 

For a writing platform, Pro Tools is sh*t. MIDI implementation is way behind other DAWs.

For mixing (or even tracking/recording) it is the standard. On the tracking/recording side it doesn't do much different from other DAWs. For mixing, it is better.
I'm speaking of the professional level. You get the aberrant Logic or Cubase/Nuendo mix situation but so very rare (and if in the US, even less so.)

If you work in a professional studio with outside clients, you should know Pro Tools. If you work for yourself or only a limited set of "outsiders" you can work on anything you want and convert to it. There are ways to translate any DAW to any DAW (at worse you print down from one to mix in another.)
Old 12th July 2020
  #6
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syntheticrhyme's Avatar
I guess it's expected at most commercial facilities. I had it when I had a commercial facility and now I use Cubase for my own projects.
Old 12th July 2020
  #7
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I like reaper for remotes because I don’t need to carry an Ilok but our studio has PT and I wouldn’t want it any other way. HDX is still the most elegant solution for me for tracking and it’s nice to not have to do any file translation to mix.
Old 12th July 2020
  #8
Any commercial studio of size (ie hiring to other engineers) generally offer HDX, or possibly older TDM or at a pinch something like an Apollo based setup, running PT.

I don’t consider them “commercial studios”, but owner/operator type places - the sort of place where you go there for the owner to produce/engineer, and the studio is his tool - anything goes, it’s their own setup.

There will of course be exceptions, but you look at any studio of size, and the primary option will be PT.

Writers tend to bring their own rigs with them when using any studio, so it doesn’t really matter what the studio is offering - they won’t be using it!
Old 12th July 2020
  #9
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
For a writing platform, Pro Tools is sh*t. MIDI implementation is way behind other DAWs.

For mixing (or even tracking/recording) it is the standard. On the tracking/recording side it doesn't do much different from other DAWs. For mixing, it is better.
I'm speaking of the professional level. You get the aberrant Logic or Cubase/Nuendo mix situation but so very rare (and if in the US, even less so.)

If you work in a professional studio with outside clients, you should know Pro Tools. If you work for yourself or only a limited set of "outsiders" you can work on anything you want and convert to it. There are ways to translate any DAW to any DAW (at worse you print down from one to mix in another.)
Not to hijack the thread at all, but out of curiosity, what ways do you use to translate from DAW to DAW?

In my private studio I prefer to use Cubase (have PT and Logic) but on occasion I get a mix job thats in PT and have to convert. The way I've done it in the past is batching each track in the project as it's own wav and importing to Cubase. Is there an easier way?
Old 12th July 2020
  #10
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pentagon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckleylives View Post
The way I've done it in the past is batching each track in the project as it's own wav and importing to Cubase. Is there an easier way?
Cubase will import and export AAF files. Pro Tools is less standard-compliant. So not everything will translate. But volume automation rides, clips, muted, panning should transfer.
Old 12th July 2020
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
For a writing platform, Pro Tools is sh*t. MIDI implementation is way behind other DAWs.

For mixing (or even tracking/recording) it is the standard. On the tracking/recording side it doesn't do much different from other DAWs. For mixing, it is better.
I'm speaking of the professional level. You get the aberrant Logic or Cubase/Nuendo mix situation but so very rare (and if in the US, even less so.)
I get the difference between how MIDI is implemented in Pro Tools vs, for example, Logic.

But I don't quite understand what makes Pro Tools better for mixing and tracking/recording?

I've only been using MIDI, and not so much audio material in Logic. I still have to mix my sequences, so that's why I'm asking.
Old 12th July 2020
  #12
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Originally Posted by cdbaksu View Post
I get the difference between how MIDI is implemented in Pro Tools vs, for example, Logic.

But I don't quite understand what makes Pro Tools better for mixing and tracking/recording?

I've only been using MIDI, and not so much audio material in Logic. I still have to mix my sequences, so that's why I'm asking.
I produce in Ableton LIVE and mix in Pro Tools. I have an HDX rig. It’s expensive and noisy, but it’s very reliable and smooth. I can run incredibly complex mixes that would make a native system bogged down—unless you own a new Mac Pro :p Also, the analog inserts in Pro Tools are seamless and sample accurate, if you have outboard gear. Overall the whole routing system in Pro Tools is very deep. But the biggest plus is that I’ve been using the same program for 20 years now!

The truth is, you don’t need a $15,000 pro tools rig to mix. These days, with so many quality plugins available, you can mix in any DAW and get great results. I prefer Pro Tools for the reasons I explained above.
Old 12th July 2020
  #13
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I personally use Ableton for anything production-related and MIDI related.
PT just doesn't do it for me in that regard, workflow is too much of a hassle compared to Ableton. However, when it comes to recording, mixing, mastering, and such - Pro Tools is my go-to DAW.

I tried various other DAWs such as: Cubase, FL, Studio One, Logic but PT is just the best for anything that resembles working with an actual console. Wouldn't dream on mixing in Ableton for example (My opinion, of course).
Old 12th July 2020
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
For a writing platform, Pro Tools is sh*t. MIDI implementation is way behind other DAWs.
That assumes that MIDI is the dominant factor in your writing. Not true for everyone. I do use MIDI quite a bit, but not as the backbone of what I do, beyond basic rhythm tracks which usually get replaced. I occasionally bump into PT's MIDI limitations, but there's usually a workaround, and, if need be, I can jump over into Logic for something only it can do.

My takeaways -

Being fluent/fast/experienced in solving problems on one DAW is crucial. Being competent on a couple of others is a good thing, if for no other reason than discovering that each DAW has strong points and weak points, and which one plays to your preferences and strengths. It also avoids "XX DAW is the best" statements. Having the process down cold for moving sessions from one DAW to another is a very good thing.

In my experience, PT's origins as an audio-centred DAW make it easier/faster/more logical (no pun intended) for anyone coming from analog/console world (yes, we're still alive). Other programs' origins as sequencers still show up from time to time in how they work with audio, in a compromising way, for me. The audio-focused nature of the mixing process makes (again, for me) PT the most effective choice for mixing. PT HD is also still the most effective for large tracking sessions with lots of headphone sends.

Even if PT isn't the "industry standard" it was ten years ago (mostly because the "industry" has taken a beating), the accumulated experience of so many engineers makes it the common denominator.

The important thing is being able to get work done. If a significant portion of your work comes from the outside, and people using *insert DAW here*, then you need to be able to either work in that DAW, or be very capable at getting that DAW's sessions into and out of your own, in order the get the work. If you're working on your own material, or producing for people in your own facility, then you have a lot of latitude in your choice of DAW. Most all are so good now that the only thing that really matters is that your skills make your choice transparent to your client, whether it's you or someone else.
Old 12th July 2020
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdbaksu View Post
I get the difference between how MIDI is implemented in Pro Tools vs, for example, Logic.

But I don't quite understand what makes Pro Tools better for mixing and tracking/recording?

I've only been using MIDI, and not so much audio material in Logic. I still have to mix my sequences, so that's why I'm asking.
Tracking - it's got hardware DSP (assuming you're using HDX/TDM), which means you don't really have to worry about buffer sizes, cue mixers, the computer crapping out and falling over when your session gets big, you can overdub on a nearly mixed session with near zero latency, and monitor with plugins in the chain with minimal latency (depending on the plugin - something like a lookahead limiter will never have low enough latency).

Yes, with a cue mixer software, you can do this too - but when you've got 40+ mics live, you don't want 2 separate systems running. The closest thing to PT HDX is now UA's new "Luna" software - integrated software and hardware. But PT has again an advantage now that it'll run on any interface. So you can track HDX, edit on your laptop with no interface, and mix wherever.

PT also handles multitrack audio grouping and editing in a very engineer-friendly way - 1:1 routing for audio tracks to mixer tracks, and the shortcuts and tools are very well designed. Beat Detective is kind of unmatched, Logic and Cubase etc have similar functions, but Logic kind of fudges over the details - with PT you can zoom in to sample level in the main window, which means it's really easy to see how your fades and splices are working.

Then there's the integration with timecode, advanced automation modes, post-production focussed features, control surface integration...

But - to each their own. Some people will never see or need any of that.

And yes - it's MIDI workflow could use some help! But it's serviceable - I do all my programming in PT, and with a bunch of 3rd party libraries, the limit is me, not the tools!
Old 12th July 2020
  #16
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The one word answer was best.
Old 12th July 2020
  #17
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bambony's Avatar
I use Reaper, Pro Tools and Logic

They have different strengths. Audio editing and mixing in Pro Tools is very solid and elegant. Logic is better for sound design and composing with soft synths but is clunky in the ways Pro Tools shines. Reaper is a jack of all trades and super customisable.

Pro Tools rules for Post Production but I don't like the subscription model. Logic is an Apple product and I don't want to be tied in to their poor value hardware. Reaper is open architecture and free from restrictions. I mostly use Reaper on my own projects and Logic and Pro Tools for other clients. Zoom under mouse pointer in Reaper and slip editing are incredibly useful tools. Plugin efficiency is exceptional. It lacks in the gui finesse and elegance of most other DAWs.

Ultimately it's not the gear but the user and you use the DAW that is the best fit for your situation and finances. For well-equipped pro studios that's definitely Pro Tools. For the rest of us it's personal.

Tony
Old 12th July 2020
  #18
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Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Tracking - it's got hardware DSP (assuming you're using HDX/TDM), which means you don't really have to worry about buffer sizes, cue mixers, the computer crapping out and falling over when your session gets big, you can overdub on a nearly mixed session with near zero latency, and monitor with plugins in the chain with minimal latency (depending on the plugin - something like a lookahead limiter will never have low enough latency).

Yes, with a cue mixer software, you can do this too - but when you've got 40+ mics live, you don't want 2 separate systems running. The closest thing to PT HDX is now UA's new "Luna" software - integrated software and hardware. But PT has again an advantage now that it'll run on any interface. So you can track HDX, edit on your laptop with no interface, and mix wherever.

PT also handles multitrack audio grouping and editing in a very engineer-friendly way - 1:1 routing for audio tracks to mixer tracks, and the shortcuts and tools are very well designed. Beat Detective is kind of unmatched, Logic and Cubase etc have similar functions, but Logic kind of fudges over the details - with PT you can zoom in to sample level in the main window, which means it's really easy to see how your fades and splices are working.

Then there's the integration with timecode, advanced automation modes, post-production focussed features, control surface integration...

But - to each their own. Some people will never see or need any of that.

And yes - it's MIDI workflow could use some help! But it's serviceable - I do all my programming in PT, and with a bunch of 3rd party libraries, the limit is me, not the tools!
Yes. Your points about tracking and lack of the “buffer dance” are spot on. I feel the same way. Tracking with Pro Tools HDX is worry free. It just works... even with a complex mix.

Also, editing in Pro Tools is unparalleled imo.
Old 13th July 2020
  #19
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i'm using everything but profools, illogic and ripper! - i started out with fairlight, sonic solutions, dyaxis, then cool edit, sadie, pyramix and whatnot but kept coming back to nuendo and wavelab. i got no reason to switch anytime soon...




* never bought into pt's various ponzi scheme...!

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 14th July 2020 at 04:53 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 13th July 2020
  #20
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by myles View Post

In my experience, PT's origins as an audio-centred DAW make it easier/faster/more logical (no pun intended) for anyone coming from analog/console world (yes, we're still alive). Other programs' origins as sequencers still show up from time to time in how they work with audio, in a compromising way, for me. The audio-focused nature of the mixing process makes (again, for me) PT the most effective choice for mixing. PT HD is also still the most effective for large tracking sessions with lots of headphone sends.
This is it for me, as well. I avoided having a DAW for a long time, because I would try things that make sense to my 'analog background' and it would be a complete fight to so something very simple. PT (as I came to learn) jibes well with what I knew before using it. I tried DP several times, and honestly, I'd rather not record than use that program. Also when I committed to PT, I knew a lot of industry friends were there already, so we could collaborate easily, and more importantly, they could quickly answer questions if I had them (and I did!).
Old 13th July 2020
  #21
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drockfresh's Avatar
I used and liked Reaper for tracking

But the output switching for hardware mixing is annoying as I went OTB

Switching to Studio One because it's a simple pull-down menu per track

To assign hardware outputs ('cmon Reaper)

I am the OP but for $30/month probably won't mess with Pro Tools

I just use DAW as 16 channel tape deck, nothing fancy
Old 14th July 2020
  #22
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carloff's Avatar
Mostly Cubase here , but I have also
S1, Ableton, Logic and PT
Old 14th July 2020
  #23
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Drock, there may be times, you want something super simple. Check out Bremmer's MultitrackStudio sometime. Even I can figure it out!
Chris
Old 14th July 2020
  #24
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Drock, there may be times, you want something super simple. Check out Bremmer's MultitrackStudio sometime. Even I can figure it out!
Chris
Will do. Thanks. It would be cool if Burl and Tascam did a JV and built us a simple tracking device, like a Radar that didn’t feel like a computer.
Old 14th July 2020
  #25
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mbvoxx's Avatar
yes
Old 14th July 2020
  #26
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With a BIG screen for those of us, with "challenged eyesight".
Chris
Old 14th July 2020
  #27
Very happily using Sequoia for many years. Does everything I need for tracking, editing, mixing, and mastering, including final CD burning (if even necessary these days). It's been years since I've had any reason to work with a ProTools session.
Old 14th July 2020
  #28
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s.d.finley's Avatar
At our studio, see sig, our three recording rooms use Pro Tools. Sure we have Logic installed on all three, also S1 in one room and Live in another room. But, everyone uses PT for recording and mixing. Beat composition , sure several producers use Logic and Live. S1 another engineer uses but for some reason the HUI control doesn't work well with the Neve Genesys Black, so PT it is!! Myself, I only use PT.
Old 14th July 2020
  #29
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BIG BUDDHA's Avatar
well i have a Studer 2 inch which is definately not Pro Tools, (thankfully) and have been occupied with commercial studio work since the 80s.

in DAW land i have a 48 in/out system on Mac Pro, and use Cubase Pro 10.5 (by choice ) , and Logic Pro X if i have to. (great soft synths)

most work finished in house. no actually i dont use Pro Tools at all.

Buddha
Old 14th July 2020
  #30
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BIG BUDDHA's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
the limit is me, not the tools!
yes, i think that applies to all software and users.

people can perform miracles on almost anything, if they truely know how to use it.

Buddha
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