Congrats !

Last minute decided not to go for JCF. I spoke to a forum member who had a bad experience with JCF, and confirmed some of my gut feelings after emailing with Josh...Going to go with either Dangerous or Burl. Both have responded to my questions with kindness and enthusiasm, and I feel better about investing my money with them.

Um, that's reeeeeally vague. Anything else you can say that might help others soon to make a similar decision?

Sure. I emailed Josh with a number of questions about proper operation, and got a sense he was generally annoyed at my questions, rather than pleased that someone had discovered his company and was interested in dropping $8k on his product. His responses to my questions were short, and came off rude. Felt dismissive or that he couldn't be bothered to deal with my inquiries. Zero friendliness.

Did some more research and found out that he has been very rude to another customer, and actually cut that customer off completely dropping any support. He also had some conflicts with the way he treated a well known dealer, who no longer carries JCF products as a result.

Compared both Burl and Dangerous, who are so kind to me, offer wonderful technical and customer support and make me feel like a valued customer.

Exact my experience. Nonetheless I purchased the AD8, but nowadays I would go with other companies.

okee, also vague tho. not pleased with customer service? sound not worth the cash? don't need to be super explicit if protecting privacy for some reason, but general hints would help the rest of us.

nothing vague here:


Originally Posted by Nightowl43 View Post
Sure. I emailed Josh with a number of questions about proper operation, and got a sense he was generally annoyed at my questions, rather than pleased that someone had discovered his company and was interested in dropping $8k on his product. His responses to my questions were short, and came off rude. Felt dismissive or that he couldn't be bothered to deal with my inquiries. Zero friendliness.

I experienced exactly the same. His way to communicate gives me a feeling he does not care about my questions at all. No need to post my emails between me and Josh... But for me, many companies cared more about their potential customers (me). Its a quality piece of gear, I love it.
Customer service gets more and more important for me... since I had a very bad experience with a german dealer (big name), I waited to get my Tubetech Multiband unit to get checked and serviced, they´ve sent me back a broken TubeTech unit and now its a nearly 10 month ongoing nightmare.... big disappointment.

just a note re service.
Duties and paperwork dictate local distributors set up service...and between parts supply and tech skills service suffers.
Thumbs up here in US to TransAudio and Tony for TubeTech. Calibrating the mastering multiband requires skills deluxe

So the final options I'm deciding between for conversion are as follows. I'm either going to go 8x2, 8x4 or 8x8+2x2 and have narrowed it down to Dangerous, Burl and Burl + Crane Song (I currently own a HEDD Quantum).

1) Dangerous Convert 8 and AD+
- This option would give me 8x2 conversion for tracking, printing, and summing. I would most likely go with a D-Box+ for analog summing in this setup to keep it all within the Dangerous family. 2 Tracks at a time for tracking, print 2 tracks at a time for "inserts" (i.e. vocal compression insert), and then after any hardware printing, sum 8 subgroups (2 mono, 3 stereo) out of the Convert 8 into Comp/EQ > D-Box+ summing > Print via AD+

2) Burl B16 w/ BMB6 AES card w/ BDA8 and BAD4M
- This option gives me 2 more AD paths than the previous, which can be useful for tracking (can have transformers on or off while tracking). I often only record 2 mics at once, but this would allow me to add room mics, or mic a small drum set. Then, I can print 4 tracks at a time for "inserts" (i.e. vocal compression insert and tape delay send/return), and then after printing, sum 8 subgroups from the BDA8 via an 8x2 summing mixer, and print back through 2 tracks of the BAD4M (no transformer).

3) Burl B16 w/ BM6B AES card w/ BDA8 and BAD8 + Crane Song HEDD Quantum
- This option gives me 8x8 Burl conversion. Since the Burls DA8/AD8s are very colored, it seems with this setup, I would want to keep my Crane Song HEDD Quantum for the final print of the mix, to not overload on the Burl transformer sound. As a result, I could track through the HEDD (2 tracks, critical overdubs) and the AD8 (up to 8 tracks for drums, or adding extra tracks to the HEDD i.e. room mics, DI, etc). In this setup, rather then summing 8x2, I would most likely have the Burl function at 8x8 for hardware inserts (print 8 at a time), and then run my subgroups as inserts as well 8x8, and the mixbus as an insert as well 2x2 via the HEDD. So in this setup, I'm changing the approach from using a summing mixer to inserts...one extra trip of AD and DA between the subgroups and the mixbus...but also the ability to automate/process between the 8 subgroups and the 2 bus (with the summing mixer, there's no automation/printing between the subs and the 2-bus.

Thoughts on these options/approaches?

I have a Burl and being very happy... I went the same way, was thinking about JCF but heard horrible story about European customer support.... so went other way.

Bottomline as usual, there is no consensus on this subject except to accept it's subjective.

Option 2 involves only one box and will sound as good as anything. IMO DA8s are not particularly colored, that is the DA4.

Option 2 - one less converter, but the addition of a summing box...so it's still about the same investment in gear.

The main consideration I'm thinking is whether I will want to print/process/automate the subgroups in the DAW post-compression/eq...or if I will prefer the sound/workflow of automating/processing in the DAW pre subgroup compression/eq and then go directly into the summing mixer into the mixbus processing in the analog domain, with no conversions or automation in between.

Josh is quite short in his communication style and is a brainiac.
I would guess he is on a spectrum but he is brilliant.
My AD-8s will stay with me for a long time regardless of how uncomfortable
the he is to talk to...

Have you compared the AD8s to Burl, Dangerous, Lynx, Crane Song? Are they really worth it, even though the customer experience isn't very good? Burl and Dangerous are backordered about a month (or more) right now, so I am considering JCF still, if the product is really as good as I've read on here.

I have used everything and the JCF are my favorite tracking convertors.
I will put Prism in second place in my experience.

Have used Burl, Dangerous, Forssell, Mytek, Lynx, Symphony extensively and the Forssell MADC-2a GenII is by far the most "analog" of them all. No question. Incredible conversion. I haven't heard anything from JCF, Merging, etc (if I'm spending that kind of dough it's going to be on something fun) but after working with the Forssell for a while now I don't even care.

This is a (sometimes) interesting discussion, but the question as stated can’t be answered definitively.
If something can’t be measured, any statement that it is the most or highest or best (of comparable things of a similar group) is at best an opinion and at worst an unsupportable marketing claim.
We don’t hear digitally. Everything we hear requires a sound in air, which is analog. Everything we hear is the most analog it can be when we hear it. It can’t be more or less analog than it is. And it isn’t digital in any sense.
I have opinions and preferences regarding audio, but I wouldn’t express any of them in terms of how digital anything sounds. Digital is actually not a sound.

This would instantly take them off my list as an option as well. 100%!! Bye bye...

I have the Burl mothership and a 2 inch tape in spec no issues. I love both.

When you’re dropping that much money on converters you want to feel a good sense of customer service & Salesmanship. I don’t care how much of a brainiac he is, don’t run that part of the business of you can’t handle it.

Or you’ll lose out, and that’s exactly what’s happening here.

JMO

Not audio but related nonetheless......A while back I called tech support of the company who I'd bought a program from that was supposed to keep my phone calendar, Outlook Calendar and Google Calendar in sync. The software wasn't working and it locked up every time I tried to open it. The tech support guy kept asking me questions that I couldn't answer unless I was able to open the program and look at its settings. I kept explaining that I had no idea how to answer his questions because I couldn't open the program to look because it kept locking up. I kept asking if there was an update or something I could install or what I can do since the program wasn't working or even opening. He eventually got so frustrated with me that he actually hung up on me.

I thought, are you kidding me?!?!? That's absolutely the worst thing a business could do to a paying customer!!! That guy clearly should never, ever talk to any customer. Ever.

Alright guys, simmer down. I have spoken to Josh many times over the years and never got any bad vibes. He has always answered my questions quickly and succinctly which is his style. He is a genius and it is basically a one man small business so his time is limited. As for customer service, I would rather have a superior product in my hands that will simply never need service. You would have to drop a JCF AD8 from a great height and then drop it in water to get it to fail at all. It's bulletproof. You might be able to save some money on the DA side by going with Burl but on the AD side nothing comes close to the JCF AD8 for my ears. It is not a "colored converter" as some people mistakenly refer to it. It is a completely unique design which is different from every other converter from the floating analog stage to the actual method of conversion itself. The PEP process is just the icing on the cake.

Maybe we should make a JCF thread ? I mean this thread got derailed.

Tried a lot of converters and I must say I enjoyed the Iz radar, EMM Labs, 2192, Hapi the most.
Iz Radar: fantastic sound, lots of width and punch, seems to have more "speed" or "life" than other converters, special mids, solid lows, great DA too, the sound breathe! my favorite
Emm: somewhat similar to the 2192 in warmness but even better, best transients reproduction of the bunch, super smooth and relaxed feel
2192: special warm sound, something nice happen when AD pushed a little
Hapi: more details than the others, more open sounding, but a little cold at times, I learned tons of details are not everything.

Thumbs down mention for JCF: sounds was great at first but was not a fan of how recorded sounds react to compressors and eqs, could be great for mastering but no so for tracking for my taste. Then was quickly underwhelmed, worst support ever for a super pricey unit (Latte), lost 1500€ when I returned the converter in absolutely new condition as I wasn't able to get rid of a annoying digital noise I never heard in any other converters. Refund refused, bad vibes, ego land. I didn't forget it yet!

I'm looking into Radar as well as an option right now since the Burl converters are backordered...love Daniel Lanois' productions so much and I know he's a Radar user...but also not sure what's up with Radar as a company, so like JCF, not sure it's a wise investment for support/etc.

I think Radar still service all Radar products and they are all pretty solid items,
lots of users still using radar 24 it seems. Service can be pricey. Thing ime are the isolator on the nyquist cards which cost a arm and a leg prone to failure, capacitors on motherboards must be looked at too due to heat, and as well the screen of the first ada I seems to have issues, I bet it is due to heat too.
For ADA I user, it is possible to install ADA 2 psu (seasonic ss300tfx with cuted motherboard connector) it lower the noise and works well, easy to find online and replace. I replaced as well cpu fan for a much lower noise one, not easy to find as it is low profile but finally works well.
Raymond Lam really try to give support on older ADA I but said openly it is old now, seems to encourage people to quit "old" platforms and buy the new frame instead.

I wish Ed Meitner still made professional converters. He does make very nice and expensive audiophile DACs now (like DCS and now Mytek). Some of the best recordings I have ever heard were his converters running DSD. I imagine they are a bit of a liability to own now 15-20 years later.

Now there is the Prism Sound Dream ADA-128 AD/DA, too. Up to 128 channels in/out, 768kHz capability at reduced channel count. Add in a some 45.1584Mhz and 49.152Mhz clocks and perhaps the Dream will ever closer approach that very smooth analogue sound.