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$5k for microphones. one "flagship" or a collection?
Old 15th April 2020
  #61
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Classic studio mics...87ai, 441, 421, RE20. Work from there onwards.

There are almost endless things that are *kind of* like mics used on classic records that you probably think of as sonic references, or that cost the same or much more and are not nearly as good. Kind of like a post-professional wave of recording gear. Some good stuff in there but if you’re starting from scratch, go for the foundational stuff.
Old 15th April 2020
  #62
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Is there a great sounding easy to place SDC for beginners you would reccomend?
I have heard some nice pencil mics recordings on more percussive acoustic piano (rock and blues). I should maybe just get some old helpinstill pickups installed in the parlor grand .
The Schoeps Collette series mics are least finicky about exact placement and will always sound decent to very good, no matter how you place them. One of the reasons you see them used in classical live shows, since they can be placed in a hurry and will give a decent sound when they are aimed at the source, more or less. Very nice capsules for this sort of use are Mk41, Mk4, Mk22 and Mk21. The omnis are more difficult to place correctly.
Old 15th April 2020
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
The Schoeps Collette series mics are least finicky about exact placement and will always sound decent to very good, no matter how you place them. One of the reasons you see them used in classical live shows, since they can be placed in a hurry and will give a decent sound when they are aimed at the source, more or less. Very nice capsules for this sort of use are Mk41, Mk4, Mk22 and Mk21. The omnis are more difficult to place correctly.
Thanks for all the great suggestions

Appreciate you taking the time !!
Old 15th April 2020
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
Classic studio mics...87ai, 441, 421, RE20. Work from there onwards.

There are almost endless things that are *kind of* like mics used on classic records that you probably think of as sonic references, or that cost the same or much more and are not nearly as good. Kind of like a post-professional wave of recording gear. Some good stuff in there but if you’re starting from scratch, go for the foundational stuff.
On a related note - on another thread about the Sony 800g - @ burp182 and @ Klaus Heine defined the Big Five for me. . .

The Telefunken 251, the AKG C12, and the Neumann U47, M49 and U67.

Budget busters! But I do have plans for a pair of Telefunken ELA M 251E tube LDCs and a clone of the U47 [Heiserman H47tube or Flea?].


Happy hunting,

Ray H.
Old 15th April 2020
  #65
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drockfresh's Avatar
Unfortunately the Gefells seem to have terrible resale value so it doesn’t check my box of being able to sell in a pinch and I don’t have the time to hunt for used mics.
Old 16th April 2020
  #66
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
The Gefells UMT70s are pretty pricey new: $1600
Not sure they hold their resale value the way a chandler TG mic or others do.
Not that you plan on selling but it’s good to know you can get out in a pinch.
I don't thing the TG has been in production long enough to know that it will have good long term resale value. Yes, people fall all over themselves for Chandler...
Old 16th April 2020
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
I don't thing the TG has been in production long enough to know that it will have good long term resale value. Yes, people fall all over themselves for Chandler...
The UMT70s sold on reverb are 50% of value
TG mics are maybe 80%

But good point those TG could be much newer
Old 16th April 2020
  #68
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?!

what are you guys talking about?!

- you don't buy mics only to sell them again!
- the classic models are far beyond the op's budget!

about the latter: guess i can tell as i just sold two of them to finance some of the staff for a couple of months during these crazy times... - ähm, and what was my first complaint again? :-(

anyway, not into gearfest: i would rather think about how many mics and what types are needed - which models to chose then seems to be an easy task!
Old 16th April 2020
  #69
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
The UMT70s sold on reverb are 50% of value
TG mics are maybe 80%

But good point those TG could be much newer
Yeah, they are still pretty flavor of the month. That's not to say they won't continue to me desired and hold value.

Is that american Reverb? I always assumed Gefel did much better on both new and used markets in Europe, but I could be wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
what are you guys talking about?!

- you don't buy mics only to sell them again!
- the classic models are far beyond the op's budget!

about the latter: guess i can tell as i just sold two of them to finance some of the staff for a couple of months during these crazy times... - ähm, and what was my first complaint again? :-(

anyway, not into gearfest: i would rather think about how many mics and what types are needed - which models to chose then seems to be an easy task!
I got 2 things to say about this.
1) Yeah, buy things to use.

2) Good on you for doing what you can to keep your people solvent. I'm sure they appreciate it, and will always remember how you stepped up.
Old 16th April 2020
  #70
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Thanks for the suggestion. My mic locker could be:

ribbons:
160 X 2

Dynamic:
M88 x 2
SM57 x 3
MD421 (new version)

LDC:
UMT70s x 2

SDC:
Maybe also a pair

Good plan?
Get the USA made Sm57s if you could. There isn’t a mid bump and the low end is more present and full. Also, the Shure 545s (and “sh”) are really incredible. They are the predecessors to to the 57 and have a very round full sound. Not as much mid as even the USA made 57 (these are off my comparisons I made with my singing voice).
Old 16th April 2020
  #71
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Don't mean to be a $5K Party "Downer" but... IMHO cutting the budget to around half (or $3K), might be wiser in the long run.

Also since the AT4050 is a generally regarded good "workhorse" already (hey Alan Parsons digs them!), is there anything specific-that bugs you about them?
(otherwise getting another one might be helpful on a lesser budget)
Chris
Old 16th April 2020
  #72
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
The UMT70s sold on reverb are 50% of value
I have no idea what you are talking about, because the UMT70S's that I can find on the US version of Reverb are all more expensive than what I paid for a brand new one with full warranty recently. Seems like incredible resale value to me! And even when I look at the price history of used (and sold) UMT70S's I see them going for more than I paid for mine. Too bad I don't want to sell mine, but obviously some profit could be made here!
Attached Thumbnails
k for microphones. one "flagship" or a collection?-umt70s_used_price_history.jpg  
Old 16th April 2020
  #73
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
I have no idea what you are talking about, because the UMT70S's that I can find on the US version of Reverb are all more expensive than what I paid for a brand new one with full warranty recently. Seems like incredible resale value to me! And even when I look at the price history of used (and sold) UMT70S's I see them going for more than I paid for mine. Too bad I don't want to sell mine, but obviously some profit could be made here!
I saw a few sold for $750-$850 and the list price is $1600 new in the USA.

How much did you pay for yours?
Old 16th April 2020
  #74
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Don't mean to be a $5K Party "Downer" but... IMHO cutting the budget to around half (or $3K), might be wiser in the long run.

Also since the AT4050 is a generally regarded good "workhorse" already (hey Alan Parsons digs them!), is there anything specific-that bugs you about them?
(otherwise getting another one might be helpful on a lesser budget)
Chris
Your right. At the post about not all SM57s being equal I kind of gave up.
I have no time or energy to hunt “vintage sm57s” cause mine don’t work.

Might just use what I’ve for for a bit and not spend ANY money.
The m88 and 160s cover lots of ground for me. Especially with my good signal chain.

Can rent some mics from the local place when needed.
I can’t handle all the options and have achieved analysis paralysis.
Old 16th April 2020
  #75
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I totally understand. FWIW my home recording is partly Hobby, and also to keep improving my singing chops for live performance (remember those days?).

If you've got around $800-$900 burning in your pocket... (shield your eyes High Enders!)
The Advanced Audio 67SE or UT 47FET IMHO
would be an intelligent/lower cost addition.

Drumsound (Tony) did an excellent Tape Op review on that AA mic BTW. We both fans of M88's too. (I also have a weakness for Brunette Rocker Chicks!)
Chris
Old 16th April 2020
  #76
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
I saw a few sold for $750-$850 and the list price is $1600 new in the USA.

How much did you pay for yours?
900 euros.
Old 16th April 2020
  #77
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
900 euros.
Wow that’s like $1k USD which would be a no brainer
Either the list price is BS in the USA (and dealers cut deals)
Or the tariffs made it so expensive
Old 16th April 2020
  #78
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
I totally understand. FWIW my home recording is partly Hobby, and also to keep improving my singing chops for live performance (remember those days?).

If you've got around $800-$900 burning in your pocket... (shield your eyes High Enders!)
The Advanced Audio 67SE or UT 47FET IMHO
would be an intelligent/lower cost addition.

Drumsound (Tony) did an excellent Tape Op review on that AA mic BTW. We both fans of M88's too. (I also have a weakness for Brunette Rocker Chicks!)
Chris
I really like the CM67se and should have just 'found' the money to not have to send it back after the review.

(I'm more about the redheads)
Old 16th April 2020
  #79
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For less than a grand, seems like an excellent value. For around $2600, I think I'd be as happy with the Soundelux U99, as an actual U67 RI.

If I was given $5K and HAD to spend it on two LDC's... I'd go Tonelux JC37, and either U99 or TG.
Chris
Old 16th April 2020
  #80
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayHeath View Post
On a related note - on another thread about the Sony 800g - @ burp182 and @ Klaus Heine defined the Big Five for me. . .

The Telefunken 251, the AKG C12, and the Neumann U47, M49 and U67.

Budget busters! But I do have plans for a pair of Telefunken ELA M 251E tube LDCs and a clone of the U47 [Heiserman H47tube or Flea?].


Happy hunting,

Ray H.
I don't necessarily disagree, but you're right - all budget busters, and also much of the vintage stuff without the same level of parts or service as easily available or affordable.

The 87AI has been out since 1986, and has been on countless records...it is a foundational sound that many people reference in their head whether they know it or not. And the predecessor which is not much different was out for years before of course.

The other thing is that the low noise and focused sound let you layer tracks up without a lot of noise buildup. All the parts are available, and you can get it not only serviced, but tested with whether it is to spec in multiple ways...which many mic companies are not able to really do.

I think for most ensemble tracking situations, the other mics I mention are just very useful, and sometimes even preferable to any of the more expensive mics, depending on context.
Old 16th April 2020
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
(...)
Might just use what I’ve for for a bit and not spend ANY money.
The m88 and 160s cover lots of ground for me. Especially with my good signal chain.

Can rent some mics from the local place when needed.
I can’t handle all the options and have achieved analysis paralysis.
that's possibly the best thing you can do!

maybe except for a nice tube ldc on vocals, gear choice doesn't matter (much): if you know a bit about mic placement, no one in the world can hear what gear you were using from listening to a full mix!
Old 16th April 2020
  #82
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
For less than a grand, seems like an excellent value. For around $2600, I think I'd be as happy with the Soundelux U99, as an actual U67 RI.

If I was given $5K and HAD to spend it on two LDC's... I'd go Tonelux JC37, and either U99 or TG.
Chris
A quick search of GS and there is overwhelming love for all things Bock/Soundelux.

Interesting .....
Old 16th April 2020
  #83
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Your right. At the post about not all SM57s being equal I kind of gave up.
I have no time or energy to hunt “vintage sm57s” cause mine don’t work.

Might just use what I’ve for for a bit and not spend ANY money.
The m88 and 160s cover lots of ground for me. Especially with my good signal chain.

Can rent some mics from the local place when needed.
I can’t handle all the options and have achieved analysis paralysis.
There no “hunting” involved. You go to eBay and there’s plenty
Old 16th April 2020
  #84
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
[. . .] Might just use what I’ve for for a bit and not spend ANY money. [. . .]

I can’t handle all the options and have achieved analysis paralysis.
Sorry for my contribution to your frustration.

I typically qualify gear selection on a general notion of 'yea, close enough for the task at hand' plus Neanderthal-level emotional attachments - the emotional component far outweighing disciplined analysis. Is this mic 'me'? As a composer/musician - rather than a professional audio services firm - this seems a reasonable path.

Give it time, trust yourself [of course], and I think your answers will come.


Best regards,

Ray H.
Old 16th April 2020
  #85
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayHeath View Post
Sorry for my contribution to your frustration.

I typically qualify gear selection on a general notion of 'yea, close enough for the task at hand' plus Neanderthal-level emotional attachments - the emotional component far outweighing disciplined analysis. Is this mic 'me'? As a composer/musician - rather than a professional audio services firm - this seems a reasonable path.

Give it time, trust yourself [of course], and I think your answers will come.


Best regards,

Ray H.
You got into my head Ray!

Just kidding, your post was helpful.

Laying out the "categories" of the classics

You're 100% right need to give it some time and the answer will come.
Old 16th April 2020
  #86
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie Mumbles View Post
There no “hunting” involved. You go to eBay and there’s plenty
It's been hit or miss for me on Reverb and the Bay

Sometimes more hassle than it's worth...

Old 16th April 2020
  #87
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Your right. At the post about not all SM57s being equal I kind of gave up.
I have no time or energy to hunt “vintage sm57s” cause mine don’t work.

Might just use what I’ve for for a bit and not spend ANY money.
The m88 and 160s cover lots of ground for me. Especially with my good signal chain.

Can rent some mics from the local place when needed.
I can’t handle all the options and have achieved analysis paralysis.
The old Unidyne 57 can be had for about the same as a new sm57 but sound way better
Old 16th April 2020
  #88
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoggin View Post
The old Unidyne 57 can be had for about the same as a new sm57 but sound way better
Asking $300 on Reverb. And those mics generally get beat to hell.
Think I'd rather have another new M88.
Old 16th April 2020
  #89
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
It's been hit or miss for me on Reverb and the Bay

Sometimes more hassle than it's worth...

Right on. The 545’s are stellar. I wouldn’t have commented if there wasn’t a great difference between them (I did my own tests, but it seems it’s a widely shared opinion) Cheers tho, and best of luck in building your locker. You know your needs and wants so that’s a great start.....I just blew mine out and couldn’t be happier (same budget you have) I have one more “main” one to go (not including cheap 100$ dynamics i like to pick up) I want to get another AA CM 47fet/CE. I’d like another for stereo apps and also, since it’s my new Vocal mic, id like to get a back up as it’s a boutique company, and they don’t typical resell much because people buy to keep mostly (it seems). What a great mic. So natural sounding.
Old 16th April 2020
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Asking $300 on Reverb. And those mics generally get beat to hell.
Think I'd rather have another new M88.
I picked up a couple on reverb a few months ago for right around $100. They are around

I just checked and you are right about what’s available at the moment Strange Glad I got mine when I did. They are clearly superior to the newer ones
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