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$5k for microphones. one "flagship" or a collection?
Old 14th April 2020
  #31
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reality check

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Ok we got a vote for stereo ribbons

Plus a nice LDC
didn't you say you have two beyer m-160's? what dynamic mics? how many instruments cwill you be recording at the same time? what's the max. i/o capacity in terms of mics? do you have an iso booth for combo/stacks/leslie? is your room worth putting up room mics?

as much as i love schoeps' mics (and i have tons of them!), do you really 'need' them? wouldn't a couple of line audio mics do it? same for ribbons: if you have beyers, i wouldn't spend too much on other ribbons - or then get a beyer m-130 if you're into fig8's and/or m/s recording. for multi patten ldc's, check out austrian audio's oc-818 and neumann's tlm-107.
Old 14th April 2020
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Thanks Tony! I do have an M88 and love it. It's usually brighter M88 vs mellower 160 ribbon decision when I'm tracking with what i've got. Will take a look at those Octavas!
I second the octavas! I have the matched pair with the 3 capsules, they are great regardless of their low cost. I have a friend that just used them on toms!
I usually use 421's or 57's so I gotta try that out.
How do you record your drums? 3-4 mics or a mic per drum etc?
Old 14th April 2020
  #33
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Too bad about the transformer vs transformerless UM70 because I really don't want to be chasing down microphones. OF COURSE the good one is harder to find and not new. It's always something, right?
I don't think this is a big deal: the UMT has lower noise, better dynamics and sounds great in its own right. I would not say the the old transformer version is "better", just a bit more colored. It is known to be quite prone to failure, something which they improved with the UMT version. You can add a transformer in the chain if you don't have one in the mic, but if it's in the mic you cannot remove it. You wanted flexibility and that is what you will get with the UMT 70 S.
Old 14th April 2020
  #34
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
didn't you say you have two beyer m-160's? what dynamic mics? how many instruments cwill you be recording at the same time? what's the max. i/o capacity in terms of mics? do you have an iso booth for combo/stacks/leslie? is your room worth putting up room mics?

as much as i love schoeps' mics (and i have tons of them!), do you really 'need' them? wouldn't a couple of line audio mics do it? same for ribbons: if you have beyers, i wouldn't spend too much on other ribbons - or then get a beyer m-130 if you're into fig8's and/or m/s recording. for multi patten ldc's, check out austrian audio's oc-818 and neumann's tlm-107.
Good point. Don’t NEED more ribbons.
I have and LOVE the 160s.

Usually it’s just me doing stereo overdubs (piano or Leslie) or tube amp dubs but I’m working toward bigger sessions.

My max I/O will be 8 But I also have a rental place nearby that has some decent mics Of needed.

You are all so helpful. I guess my priorities are:

1. Recording the baby grand

2. Learning more about mic placement in my new space (doing lots of percussion overdubs working towards maybe getting some proper drum parts)

3. Getting more comfortable with the workflow of placing mics

4. Having some options for vocals.

5. Extremely well built no drama

I just enjoy using gear that is at a level where I am not having to buy sell trade all the time and can get to work. Yes I have a bigger room to get some space/ambience.
Old 15th April 2020
  #35
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
I don't think this is a big deal: the UMT has lower noise, better dynamics and sounds great in its own right. I would not say the the old transformer version is "better", just a bit more colored. It is known to be quite prone to failure, something which they improved with the UMT version. You can add a transformer in the chain if you don't have one in the mic, but if it's in the mic you cannot remove it. You wanted flexibility and that is what you will get with the UMT 70 S.
Thanks for the suggestion. My mic locker could be:

ribbons:
160 X 2

Dynamic:
M88 x 2
SM57 x 3
MD421 (new version)

LDC:
UMT70s x 2

SDC:
Maybe also a pair

Good plan?
Old 15th April 2020
  #36
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Thanks for the suggestion. My mic locker could be:

ribbons:
160 X 2

Dynamic:
M88 x 2
SM57 x 3
MD421 (new version)

LDC:
UMT70s x 2

SDC:
Maybe also a pair

Good plan?
Looks like an excellent plan to me. Biggest question will be what pair of SDC's you will choose, but having the option to record with SDC's in stereo as well seems a good idea.
Old 15th April 2020
  #37
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
Looks like an excellent plan to me. Biggest question will be what pair of SDC's you will choose, but having the option to record with SDC's in stereo as well seems a good idea.
Have you used the Gefell in stereo configurations ...?

The long body not an issue on Blumlein?
Old 15th April 2020
  #38
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Have you used the Gefell in stereo configurations ...?
I have not used the UMT 70 S in stereo configurations, other than M/S, because I have dozens of matched SDC and other LDC pairs.
Old 15th April 2020
  #39
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
The long body not an issue on Blumlein?
This would be no problem for me. The long body makes it easy to align both mics precisely. Note that the perfect mic clip for the UMT 70 S is Rycote Invision INV-7HG-mark III.
Old 15th April 2020
  #40
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
This would be no problem for me. The long body makes it easy to align both mics precisely. Note that the perfect mic clip for the UMT 70 S is Rycote Invision INV-7HG-mark III.
Great. Thank you for all the info !!
Old 15th April 2020
  #41
Lives for gear
Especially as to the piano itself, I assume you have some preferences as to the configurations & techniques you most prefer?

In the event you missed it there was a quasi-relevant discussion on another thread that caught my attention. . .

Grand piano tracking -- the lid is killing me! was one that got particularly good for me around post number 86. Amazing tone and clarity on that album, I think!

Realizing the link doesn't reflect your target genre, do you have strong thoughts about what you've liked best regarding stereo [or mono] options for the piano?


Regards,

Ray H.
Old 15th April 2020
  #42
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayHeath View Post
Especially as to the piano itself, I assume you have some preferences as to the configurations & techniques you most prefer?

In the event you missed it there was a quasi-relevant discussion on another thread that caught my attention. . .

Grand piano tracking -- the lid is killing me! was one that got particularly good for me around post number 86. Amazing tone and clarity on that album, I think!

Realizing the link doesn't reflect your target genre, do you have strong thoughts about what you've liked best regarding stereo [or mono] options for the piano?


Regards,

Ray H.
This is great. Got some work to do.

I usually just point mics at stuff and use whatever I capture.

The subtlety of it all can drive me crazy.
Old 15th April 2020
  #43
Lives for gear
It's a matter of cap quality control. At 5K, Josophsen is too much.
Options are REDD, U67+Inner tube, Bock, Flea. Then you have to pick the cap flavor: 37,47,67,251,49,800.

At 1K$ Advanced Audio same thing, pick your flavor.
Old 15th April 2020
  #44
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum View Post
It's a matter of cap quality control. At 5K, Josophsen is too much.
Options are REDD, U67+Inner tube, Bock, Flea. Then you have to pick the cap flavor: 37,47,67,251,49,800.

At 1K$ Advanced Audio same thing, pick your flavor.
So your vote is one super high end LDC?
Old 15th April 2020
  #45
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
This would be no problem for me. The long body makes it easy to align both mics precisely. Note that the perfect mic clip for the UMT 70 S is Rycote Invision INV-7HG-mark III.
Have you used the Gefell 930?
Old 15th April 2020
  #46
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Have you used the Gefell 930?
M930? Yes. I think it will be too sharp up top for what you have specified. Placement comes much more precise than with UMT 70 S. I'm using M950's as mains for small ensembles, but they need to be placed with greatest care. The UMT 70 S can be aimed in many ways and will give you a nice result everytime. One of the easiest LDC's to place, which is why I thought it would suit you.
Old 15th April 2020
  #47
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
M930? Yes. I think it will be too sharp up top for what you have specified. Placement comes much more precise than with UMT 70 S. I'm using M950's as mains for small ensembles, but they need to be placed with greatest care. The UMT 70 S can be aimed in many ways and will give you a nice result everytime. One of the easiest LDC's to place, which is why I thought it would suit you.
Excellent. Thank you. Easy to place works just fine for me !

Off the top of your head ... which are your fav LDCs ..?
Old 15th April 2020
  #48
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drockfresh's Avatar
Uh- oh - I made the mistake of watching the u47 video that popped into my YouTube feed
!!

OMG that mic (and the flea 47) sound amaaaaazing
Old 15th April 2020
  #49
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffsochor View Post
As ribbons go, a friend recorded this, Yamaha C7 (def on the bright side as grands go), used an AEA R88, flat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh6WZHnR3fo

Also a second for the UM 70 pair, love it on piano and dark vocals. The newer ones are transformerless, branded UMT, not as good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Matched Pair of 4038 is always tempting

(Even if the stereo bar costs.. $300 )

Matched 4038
and Matched Shoeps SDC
is an idea
Similarly, a good friend of my with a C7 uses 4038 more often than not, and every recording I've heard (including tracks he cut for a project of mine) sound wonderful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOURTHTUNZ View Post
I second the octavas! I have the matched pair with the 3 capsules, they are great regardless of their low cost. I have a friend that just used them on toms!
I usually use 421's or 57's so I gotta try that out.
How do you record your drums? 3-4 mics or a mic per drum etc?
I know a few people into MC012 on toms. I prefer to have them on overhaeads.
Old 15th April 2020
  #50
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Off the top of your head ... which are your fav LDCs ..?
This question is very hard to answer, because it depends entirely on the type of music I want to record. Most of what I do is classical on early instruments, so not really the field where you are working in. So I use a lot of SDC's and MDC's. I have a pair of Brauner Valvet X (the original Haun capsule model) and the mentioned M950's that I absolutely love. None of these I would recommend for your needs.
Old 15th April 2020
  #51
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Uh- oh - I made the mistake of watching the u47 video that popped into my YouTube feed
!!

OMG that mic (and the flea 47) sound amaaaaazing
I suggest you read up on the M7 capsule and in which mics it's being used: http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/tag/m7
Old 15th April 2020
  #52
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Given the budget, I would get a Flea M49. They are a little less pronounced in the upper mids than the U47 which makes them a bit more versatile. And like the 47, the 49 can sound, warm, big and spacious. If later on you were to get a second one, i can’t imagine too many acoustic instruments you couldn’t capture brilliantly with a pair of 49s..
Old 15th April 2020
  #53
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
I suggest you read up on the M7 capsule and in which mics it's being used: http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/tag/m7
Brilliant. Thank you. You were one step ahead. M7 all the way.
Old 15th April 2020
  #54
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
This question is very hard to answer, because it depends entirely on the type of music I want to record. Most of what I do is classical on early instruments, so not really the field where you are working in. So I use a lot of SDC's and MDC's. I have a pair of Brauner Valvet X (the original Haun capsule model) and the mentioned M950's that I absolutely love. None of these I would recommend for your needs.
Is there a great sounding easy to place SDC for beginners you would reccomend?
I have heard some nice pencil mics recordings on more percussive acoustic piano (rock and blues). I should maybe just get some old helpinstill pickups installed in the parlor grand .
Old 15th April 2020
  #55
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DougS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Been working with keyboards for a long time, finally getting back to recording musicians in a room.

Have a small locker:
Ribbons x 2 (160- great!)
AT 4050 (never use it)
A few dynamics

Want:
Mic for baby grand, Vocals, tube combo amps and leslie
Room is pretty decent sounding now

I prefer to buy something that "usually works" and can be "set and forget"
Manley Silver
Old 15th April 2020
  #56
Gear Addict
 
Progger's Avatar
Well, this is a fun thread to read through since I enjoy the idea of a $5000 mic shopping spree that I don't have to fund myself! Many of the suggestions so far have been compelling. If I were to do my own version of the spree, and if my goals were similar to @ drockfresh (and my actual priorities aren't far off in terms of what I normally record), here's one way I'd consider going.

Used u87ai ($2400-ish)
AEA R84 ($1100)
Beyerdynamic MC 930 pair ($1000, or $700-ish used)
Sennheiser MD441 ($900)

So many other good alternative, too... I'd love to hear a Gefell UMT70s swapped for the u87. Plenty of other good SDC pairs to swap for the Beyers, too. Plenty of other good dynamics that are less expensive than the 441, but we were still under budget, so why not go for the expensive one.

With that budget, might as well go for the big names with known quality. For a home studio where name brands matter less, with that budget you could get an army of 3U, Advanced Audio, AT, and Vanguard mics that would probably do great.

OK, back to reality, no new gear for me until the gigs come back.
Old 15th April 2020
  #57
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Progger View Post
Well, this is a fun thread to read through since I enjoy the idea of a $5000 mic shopping spree that I don't have to fund myself! Many of the suggestions so far have been compelling. If I were to do my own version of the spree, and if my goals were similar to @ drockfresh (and my actual priorities aren't far off in terms of what I normally record), here's one way I'd consider going.

Used u87ai ($2400-ish)
AEA R84 ($1100)
Beyerdynamic MC 930 pair ($1000, or $700-ish used)
Sennheiser MD441 ($900)

So many other good alternative, too... I'd love to hear a Gefell UMT70s swapped for the u87. Plenty of other good SDC pairs to swap for the Beyers, too. Plenty of other good dynamics that are less expensive than the 441, but we were still under budget, so why not go for the expensive one.

With that budget, might as well go for the big names with known quality. For a home studio where name brands matter less, with that budget you could get an army of 3U, Advanced Audio, AT, and Vanguard mics that would probably do great.

OK, back to reality, no new gear for me until the gigs come back.
Sorry to hear the gigs have dried up - hang in there - all will be back soon

Thanks for these recommendations.

I especially like the 441 suggestions because I do have a huge crush on 1979 Stevie Nicks
Old 15th April 2020
  #58
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 

I would definitely put the vote in for a good pair of high end SDCs. Schoeps Collettes are great, but there are others out there from guys like Sennheiser, Josephson, and DPA that are worth looking at.

I would also say that... if you're doing the kind of work I think you're doing... you should seriously look at a pair of Sennheiser 441s for the piano. Very low leakage, and the leakage that there is sounds very good. And if you _want_ leakage, like for example you have a horn playing into the open piano lid, you want leakage that sounds good.

I would give a thumbs down on the stereo ribbons. Great to have ribbon mikes, but if you get two ribbons, you can use them as a stereo pair or you can use them as spot mikes. If you get a single stereo ribbon, you can only use it as a coincident stereo pair, you can't change the configuration... and you can use it as a mono spot mike but only as one mono spot mike. Having two mono mikes is far far more convenient.

If you don't have an RE-20, get one. It's not expensive.
--scott
Old 15th April 2020
  #59
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio View Post
I would definitely put the vote in for a good pair of high end SDCs. Schoeps Collettes are great, but there are others out there from guys like Sennheiser, Josephson, and DPA that are worth looking at.

I would also say that... if you're doing the kind of work I think you're doing... you should seriously look at a pair of Sennheiser 441s for the piano. Very low leakage, and the leakage that there is sounds very good. And if you _want_ leakage, like for example you have a horn playing into the open piano lid, you want leakage that sounds good.

I would give a thumbs down on the stereo ribbons. Great to have ribbon mikes, but if you get two ribbons, you can use them as a stereo pair or you can use them as spot mikes. If you get a single stereo ribbon, you can only use it as a coincident stereo pair, you can't change the configuration... and you can use it as a mono spot mike but only as one mono spot mike. Having two mono mikes is far far more convenient.

If you don't have an RE-20, get one. It's not expensive.
--scott
Great suggestions thank you
Old 15th April 2020
  #60
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drockfresh's Avatar
The Gefells UMT70s are pretty pricey new: $1600
Not sure they hold their resale value the way a chandler TG mic or others do.
Not that you plan on selling but it’s good to know you can get out in a pinch.
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