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Old 25th February 2020
  #181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearrhea View Post
Tom Elmhirst is still mixing on his VR.



like I said a couple posts ago,



imagine Daniel Lanois mixing ITB.... it wouldn't work.


An exception does not the rule make.

I think even Elmhirst is working in a more reduced fashion these days - read interviews from the Amy Winehouse days compared to recent ones. He does a lot of sub mixing and prep itb. I’d imagine like most OTB mixers he does minimal changes to outboard so recall is quick.

And of course he has assistants to actually do the recalls, print stems and so on. That’s simply not a luxury most of us have!
Old 25th February 2020
  #182
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
An exception does not the rule make.

I think even Elmhirst is working in a more reduced fashion these days - read interviews from the Amy Winehouse days compared to recent ones. He does a lot of sub mixing and prep itb. I’d imagine like most OTB mixers he does minimal changes to outboard so recall is quick.

And of course he has assistants to actually do the recalls, print stems and so on. That’s simply not a luxury most of us have!
There are no rules. There are plenty of exceptions.
Old 25th February 2020
  #183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearrhea View Post
There are no rules. There are plenty of exceptions.
Wrong use of a English word there I’m afraid.

The way I used it, “rule” means “the usual manner of things” not “you must do this”. So replying “there are no rules” doesn’t make sense, it’s misunderstanding what I’m saying.

Of course there’s plenty of exceptions - the world is a big place. But if you look at maybe the top 50 engineers across mainstream genres - you’ll find most are working ITB or hybrid, and those with a desk in the setup at all have developed techniques vastly different to what they would have used 10 years ago - involving minimal board automation, stems and fixed position outboard. The desk is basically a glorified summing amp.

I’m not expressing any opinion on what things should be, just on how they are. Mixing on a desk is the equivalent of vinyl I guess - many still love it, it’ll probably never go away totally, but it’ll be niche rather than the norm from now on.
Old 25th February 2020
  #184
Gear Maniac
 
Digiplex's Avatar
 

Well anyway back to the topic. There’s a room up the road that just installed a 5088. Hope to check that out one day. If you can swing it I think it’s a really cool option.
Old 25th February 2020
  #185
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Wrong use of a English word there I’m afraid.

The way I used it, “rule” means “the usual manner of things” not “you must do this”. So replying “there are no rules” doesn’t make sense, it’s misunderstanding what I’m saying.

Of course there’s plenty of exceptions - the world is a big place. But if you look at maybe the top 50 engineers across mainstream genres - you’ll find most are working ITB or hybrid, and those with a desk in the setup at all have developed techniques vastly different to what they would have used 10 years ago - involving minimal board automation, stems and fixed position outboard. The desk is basically a glorified summing amp.

I’m not expressing any opinion on what things should be, just on how they are. Mixing on a desk is the equivalent of vinyl I guess - many still love it, it’ll probably never go away totally, but it’ll be niche rather than the norm from now on.
Huh? No you were implying that the exception I put on display was implying there is a rule - which wasn't my intent or what I was implying. My only intent was to put on display that this ITB mentality isn't too solid beyond mixing 808 pop.

How long ago did you hear that about Tom?



Also, assistants aren't some elusive rare wine or caviar served at a private invite only restaurant. Most low-level studios I've been at have assistants and interns.
Old 25th February 2020
  #186
Gear Nut
 

Don't forget about the Wunder Audio Wunder Bar
Old 25th February 2020
  #187
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearrhea View Post
Don't forget about the Wunder Audio Wunder Bar
Thats classy looking console.
Old 25th February 2020
  #188
Gear Maniac
 
Digiplex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearrhea View Post
Don't forget about the Wunder Audio Wunder Bar
Yeah that’s another cool one.
Old 25th February 2020
  #189
Gear Nut
 

Old 25th February 2020
  #190
Gear Nut
 

They just came out with the PREQ4 and a 8 aux module.
Definitely not for shallow pockets.
Old 25th February 2020
  #191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearrhea View Post
Huh? No you were implying that the exception I put on display was implying there is a rule - which wasn't my intent or what I was implying.
Again, you've misunderstood the saying I've used. I don't know if this is a non-native English speaker thing, but there's a saying - "the exception that proves the rule" - which I'm paraphrasing here. More accurately, the saying should be "the exception that tests the rule" ("prove" can also mean "test" in certain circumstances). "Rule" doesn't mean "everyone has to do this", it means "the norm". ie even if most people are doing something one way, there's always an exception to this.

I'm NOT saying there's a rule that everyone has to work a certain way, which is why your "there are no rules" response shows you either misunderstood what I meant, or you're twisting what I'm saying - hopefully the former. It's not the clearest of sayings I admit!

What I'm saying is that even if most people are working hybrid, there'll always be someone who's successfully working with a different method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearrhea View Post
My only intent was to put on display that this ITB mentality isn't too solid beyond mixing 808 pop.
Well, Michael Brauer, Cenzo Townsend, Mike Crossey are all working heavily hybrid, having ditched consoles. None of those guys specialise in "808 pop" as you put it. Tchad Blake has been ITB for years, working on rock...the whole hardcore mix scene is pretty much ITB if you follow any of that, even a lot of acoustic music is too. Really there's a few guys who can still justify charging for using consoles - can you name someone who's broken into the mixing scene in a big way who's an old school console mixer in recent years? I can't.

Like it or not, the trend is away from consoles, not towards them. I'm not passing any judgement on whether that's right or not, it's just what's happening. Rock is part of that too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearrhea View Post
How long ago did you hear that about Tom?

Any interview you read with Elmhirst details chains of plugins in addition to any desk work - that's the definition of "hybrid". He's famous for submixing so he can fit the whole song on one arrange page - he's said that in several interviews. Here's one example:

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/...e-rolling-deep

He details how he's got chains of FX permanently set so he doesn't need to switch stuff - "lots of it" doesn't get used in a given mix. Maybe he is using the board more than most! I spoke to Cenzo personally a couple of years ago, he said the board was summing for him at that point (and he's since ditched it totally).


Quote:
Also, assistants aren't some elusive rare wine or caviar served at a private invite only restaurant. Most low-level studios I've been at have assistants and interns.
Ha. That's a bit different. Interns aren't doing recalls and printing stems and premixing for name mixers. Very very few working mix engineers have their own dedicated assistant or two prepping the sessions, printing stems and in the case of the big names, premixing to the point where the big guys can come in and take over.

CLA isn't mixing 5 songs from scratch every day. That's impossible - both from a time perspective, and a focus perspective. He doesn't come in, start with the kick drum and aligning his samples, and getting a basic balance. IF he's doing that sort of workload, he'll be sitting down with the mix mostly in place, working on some details, printing and taking a break whilst the next (already premixed song) is set up.

You don't get that unless you a) can charge the rates to make it worthwhile b) have sustained work to make it worthwhile and c) have someone you've trained up to be able to do this for you!

You don't book a "studio" for your mix job - you book a mix engineer. It's a bit different to booking a room and having an assistant there to help you with patching and setup.

Out of interest (and I don't mean it insultingly), how much of your info here is 1st hand and how much is through reading and YouTube? Ever dealt with A-list mixers personally, sent projects to them or handled recalls, ever worked for a name mix engineer or so on? It can be a different world!
Old 25th February 2020
  #192
Here for the gear
Are we still talking about helping a gearslutz guy with which console is worth his money?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #193
Lives for gear
 
e-are's Avatar
Nope. This is Gearslutz
Moved on from that sh*t, in true GS fashion.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #194
Gear Addict
 
FlyingMusician's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by curere View Post
Are we still talking about helping a gearslutz guy with which console is worth his money?
I'm considering a new console and I find this conversation about trends, ITB, hybrid, engineers, assistants, etc. to be relevant and interesting especially when considering a large investment and change in the studio.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #195
Gear Maniac
 
Digiplex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMusician View Post
I'm considering a new console and I find this conversation about trends, ITB, hybrid, engineers, assistants, etc. to be relevant and interesting especially when considering a large investment and change in the studio.
There’s a lot of products still coming out of big ssl rooms like Larrabee. I’d take his comments like a grain of salt because there’s a lot of guys who still prefer mixing on consoles
Old 4 weeks ago
  #196
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMusician View Post
I'm considering a new console and I find this conversation about trends, ITB, hybrid, engineers, assistants, etc. to be relevant and interesting especially when considering a large investment and change in the studio.
quoted for emphasis - and yet:

i couldn't care less about what the rest of the world is doing in terms of gear choice - reason i'm hanging around in these kinda threads is pure voyeurism in true gz-style :-)

i'm experienced (and biased) enough and have a broad spectrum of ensembles and bands i'm working with which i know pretty well (and has been loyal) that i don't need to care or worry about any trends or hypes - for me, a (large) desk is the quintessential tool for tracking and mixing!

of course things would look vastly different if i'd try to rent out my studios and would have lots of visiting engineers...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #197
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
quoted for emphasis - and yet:

i couldn't care less about what the rest of the world is doing in terms of gear choice - reason i'm hanging around in these kinda threads is pure voyeurism in true gz-style :-)

i'm experienced (and biased) enough and have a broad spectrum of ensembles and bands i'm working with which i know pretty well (and has been loyal) that i don't need to care or worry about any trends or hypes - for me, a (large) desk is the quintessential tool for tracking and mixing!

of course things would look vastly different if i'd try to rent out my studios and would have lots of visiting engineers...

I think you are right in that you know your clientele - Even if you had visiting engineers you would have them adjust to your room, right?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #198
Lives for gear
 
microwave's Avatar
Another one to consider would be the Harrison 950 MX - beautiful sounding preamps and eq and very interesting routing possibilities. https://harrisonconsoles.com/site/950mx.html
Old 4 weeks ago
  #199
Gear Maniac
 
Digiplex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
quoted for emphasis - and yet:

i couldn't care less about what the rest of the world is doing in terms of gear choice - reason i'm hanging around in these kinda threads is pure voyeurism in true gz-style :-)

i'm experienced (and biased) enough and have a broad spectrum of ensembles and bands i'm working with which i know pretty well (and has been loyal) that i don't need to care or worry about any trends or hypes - for me, a (large) desk is the quintessential tool for tracking and mixing!

of course things would look vastly different if i'd try to rent out my studios and would have lots of visiting engineers...
So you don’t care what daw eq that 808 kick drum was processed with or who whispered that poor vocal take?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #200
Gear Nut
 

has the Fix console been mentioned yet?

Another great option, forward thinking, blend on each channel. Greg Wells is just getting one installed.



JCF is also putting out a console, which has full analog mechanical recall of all settings.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #201
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by curere View Post
I think you are right in that you know your clientele - Even if you had visiting engineers you would have them adjust to your room, right?
adjusting to the room (acoustics) would probably be easy - adjusting to the gear however...

i haven't come across too many folks in recent years who easily switch between multiple platforms (fully analog, mixing on desks, hybrid, itb), production environment (studio, live, broadcasting) or genre (from european to indian classical music to metal to jazz), at least not many who did well imo - looks like most people tend to specialize to some degree these days!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiplex View Post
There’s a lot of products still coming out of big ssl rooms like Larrabee. I’d take his comments like a grain of salt because there’s a lot of guys who still prefer mixing on consoles
There are.

But people renting rooms to mix in are generally using the monitoring and not a lot else (maybe printing hardware?) and people mixing on desks generally own them.

The idea of a commercial mix room where you rent the space and come in to mix a song, then rent another day to do a recall are over.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #203
Gear Maniac
 
Digiplex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
There are.

But people renting rooms to mix in are generally using the monitoring and not a lot else (maybe printing hardware?) and people mixing on desks generally own them.

The idea of a commercial mix room where you rent the space and come in to mix a song, then rent another day to do a recall are over.
Not really these guys mix all kinds of artists In those rooms and Manny mixed Lizzo at Larrabee as well.
@ TeddyS photos No. 6 Collaborations Project drops tonight! We are so proud to be part of this star studded work. Check out all these tracks mixed by our residents

@ manny marroquin
- Cross Me (Feat. Chance the Rapper & PnB Rock)
- BLOW (with Bruno Mars & Chris Stapleton)
- I Don’t Want Your Money (Feat. H.E.R)
- Put It All On Me (Feat. Ella Mai)

@ jayc enjoshua
- South of the Border (Feat. Camilla Cabello & Cardi B)
- Take me back to London (Feat. Stormzy)
- Anti social (Feat. Travis Scott)
- Feels (Feat. Young Thug & J Hus)
- Nothing on you (Feat. Paulo Londra & Dave)
- Way to break my heart (Feat. Skrillex)
- 1000 Nights (Feat Meek Mill & Boogie wit da Hoodie)
.
.
.
#mixedatlarrabee #mixengineer #mannymarroquin #jaycenjoshua #edsheeran #no .6 #newmusic #chancethewrapper #PnBRock #stormzy #travisscott #camillacabello #cardib #youngthug #Jhus #ellamai #paulolondra #dave #H .E.R #meekmill #boogiewitdahoodie #skrillex #brunomars #chrisstapleton #studiolife #mmmixes #recordingstudio
Old 4 weeks ago
  #204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiplex View Post
Not really these guys mix all kinds of artists In those rooms and Manny mixed Lizzo at Larrabee as well.
@ TeddyS photos No. 6 Collaborations Project drops tonight! We are so proud to be part of this star studded work. Check out all these tracks mixed by our residents

@ manny marroquin
- Cross Me (Feat. Chance the Rapper & PnB Rock)
- BLOW (with Bruno Mars & Chris Stapleton)
- I Don’t Want Your Money (Feat. H.E.R)
- Put It All On Me (Feat. Ella Mai)

@ jayc enjoshua
- South of the Border (Feat. Camilla Cabello & Cardi B)
- Take me back to London (Feat. Stormzy)
- Anti social (Feat. Travis Scott)
- Feels (Feat. Young Thug & J Hus)
- Nothing on you (Feat. Paulo Londra & Dave)
- Way to break my heart (Feat. Skrillex)
- 1000 Nights (Feat Meek Mill & Boogie wit da Hoodie)
.
.
.
That's the perfect example of someone who has their own room - in Manny at least, and I think JJ too!

They may not technically *own* the studio, but they have it on permanent lockdown.

Here's an old interview with MM where they mention he's had the room locked out for 10 years:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...anny-marroquin

Here's a more recent one - where he goes into a bit more detail, saying he's printing stems for recall (and he also alludes to the fact that if someone starts by sending him a part-mixed session, as many people do, then he goes from there - and doesn't necessarily split it onto the console).

He also references a mix taking 6hrs to 2 days -and thats WITH an assistant doing the setup for him (in the SOS interview). 5 mixes a day by anyone is not happening.

https://en.audiofanzine.com/sound-te...-to-manny.html

What they're not doing is renting a studio for a mix, then coming back a week later for a recall (or having to wait because the studio is locked out for 2 weeks). That's not feasible anymore.

So yeah - if you're at the level of these guys where you can lock out an SSL room, mix on a desk! But most of us can't. And TBH I'd rather not be these days.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #205
Gear Maniac
 
Digiplex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post

What they're not doing is renting a studio for a mix, then coming back a week later for a recall (or having to wait because the studio is locked out for 2 weeks). That's not feasible anymore.
I’m not sure about the specifics of his arrangement but I’m sure they just didn’t give him keys to the castle. He still probably has to pay some sort of rent for that room.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #206
Quote:
Originally Posted by noize_organizer View Post
Yep, recording rock'n roll has ironically become a luxury.
With used consoles selling for as little as a penny on the dollar it's cheaper to buy a used console than it is to buy a new Pro Tools rig.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiplex View Post
I’m not sure about the specifics of his arrangement but I’m sure they just didn’t give him keys to the castle. He still probably has to pay some sort of rent for that room.
Of course. He's got the room on lockout, just like anyone else who's renting a private studio.

Most of us just can't rent a large studio on retainer though!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #208
Gear Maniac
 
Digiplex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Of course. He's got the room on lockout, just like anyone else who's renting a private studio.

Most of us just can't rent a large studio on retainer though!
Yeah nice office if you can afford it lol
Old 4 weeks ago
  #209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiplex View Post
Yeah nice office if you can afford it lol
Quite!

My point is that once upon a time your average mix engineer got a room rented on their behalf with an SSL and at least some outboard, and had a day to do a mix. Often the client would sign off the same day; sometimes recalls would be needed, and it was accepted that you had to book the room again to get that recall done (or fudge it from stems somehow).

At the time, the idea of having your own mix space was kind of unheard of - computers weren't powerful enough and only the top end could afford a setup that could compete with the sonics of the larger room.

Now - because most people don't need that, no-one pays for it! SSL mix rooms sit empty, or people book the room for its monitoring and mix ITB (or very hybrid/printing outboard) - anything to be able to recall quickly away from that studio.

More often, larger rooms are rented for writing/collab sessions...and the desk sits unused.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #210
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearrhea View Post

Bruno, looking forward to the better pics!
Just received this picture from Three Saint Records / Herbert Pixner studio, in the Alps in Austria.
I wouldn't mind doing some work there :-)

Cheers
Bruno

Interphase Audio
Ark Console
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Console upgrade — SSL Origin, RND 5088, AMS Neve Genesys, Audient ASP 8024?-pixner_20200227.jpg  
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