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Bob Katz, Haas Delays & Depth and Dimension?
Old 16th June 2007
  #1
Bob Katz, Haas Delays & Depth and Dimension?

Hi there, hope someone can add futher insite to this:

I am reading Bob Katz's superb book on Mastering Audio and got to the section on how you can acheive depth in your mixes e.g. have the snare and kit sound like its behind the vocals by using hass delays and early reflections. Am I missing something in the book though, because it dosn't seem to explain how you do this. It implies that you should be doing this with your mixes but dosn't tell you how??? What delay settings should I use, what kind of early reflection settings on my reverb etc?

Can anyone add more to this as it seems a great way to add more space and dimention to a mix.

Cheers!
Old 16th June 2007
  #2
You might want to take a look at this:

ARP Contents

In the chapter called "Using Short Delay Effects" you'll find an explanation of the Haas theory.
Old 16th June 2007
  #3
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I'm assuming you mean useing the Haas effect to create a fakey spacial effect(?)
This is(are) very short delay(s) panned to the opposite side of an instrument. You might eq it a bit darker. How long? If you check it in mono it have to sound a bit like a flanger, just try out, every frequency/instrument is a bit different (we are talking about millisec. here). A more easy methode might be the PSP Pseudo Stereo plug.

Good luck...
Old 17th June 2007
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas G View Post
I'm assuming you mean useing the Haas effect to create a fakey spacial effect(?)
This is(are) very short delay(s) panned to the opposite side of an instrument. You might eq it a bit darker. How long? If you check it in mono it have to sound a bit like a flanger, just try out, every frequency/instrument is a bit different (we are talking about millisec. here). A more easy methode might be the PSP Pseudo Stereo plug.

Good luck...
No its not for spacial effect. tutt
Bob Katz refers to it as a technique most top mix engineers use to give your ear/brain system positioning clues as to where the instrument/voice is placed. This doesn't just mean left and right, but back to front. So you may have the snare quite up front in the mix in terms of volume but it is in a space "behind" the lead vocals and therefor they don't get in the way of each other.
This sound a very sensible way to mix, but what I'm asking is what delays or early reflection settings do I need to make this happen. If two tracks are panned center, how do I make one appear behind the other and how far behind? Like wise if a guitar is panned 3/4 left, how do I make it 3/4 left and farther back?
Old 17th June 2007
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittonian View Post
You might want to take a look at this:

ARP Contents

In the chapter called "Using Short Delay Effects" you'll find an explanation of the Haas theory.
Cheers I'll have a look
Old 17th June 2007
  #6
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stevetgn's Avatar
If you use a good amount of small room early reflection (from a really good reverb unit) on a snare that will make it sound behind the vocals but won't swamp the the sound like normal reverb would.

I'd like to learn more though with regards to more "accurate" positioning techniques.


PS sorry about the previous deleted reply my browser was freaking out for some reason
Old 17th June 2007
  #7
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stevetgn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittonian View Post
You might want to take a look at this:

ARP Contents

In the chapter called "Using Short Delay Effects" you'll find an explanation of the Haas theory.
Most of it pretty obvious and basic but, what a cool little site! Good find Kittonian
Old 18th June 2007
  #8
I guess no one knows the full answer to this one then?
Old 18th June 2007
  #9
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Well, yes!

Sound travels at about 1 foot per millisecond, so if you want to place a guitar a few yards back then you delay it by that amount and eq it so that it has a similar sound as if it had been filtered by so much air.

On the panning issue, if you want an instrument to be left, don't just pan it, but record it in stereo and then pan the left and right signals until the sum of the two apears at tjhe spot you want.
Old 18th June 2007
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Well, yes!

Sound travels at about 1 foot per millisecond, so if you want to place a guitar a few yards back then you delay it by that amount and eq it so that it has a similar sound as if it had been filtered by so much air.

On the panning issue, if you want an instrument to be left, don't just pan it, but record it in stereo and then pan the left and right signals until the sum of the two apears at tjhe spot you want.
Cool info, let me soak it up!

When you say record in stereo, what do you mean? two mics to separate tracks? two tracks, one delayed?
Old 18th June 2007
  #11
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Two mics and to two separate tracks.
Old 18th June 2007
  #12
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Sinewave's Avatar
 

Quote:
It implies that you should be doing this with your mixes but dosn't tell you how??? What delay settings should I use, what kind of early reflection settings on my reverb etc?
to make use of the Hass effect, all or most of your tracks should be recorded in Stereo in a nice sounding room, to get that aura of ambience in your tracks.
To get that sense of back to front depth, you move the musicians further or closer to the stereo mics depending on how you approach the recording,after recording, small delays of about 40 ms or more can help bring out the sense of front to back depth.
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