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Old 3 weeks ago
  #31
Deleted e09cd8e
Guest
Only people with no experience using truly high end equipment defend RME stuff soundwise. The RME ADI 2 Pro is mediocre. It’s not terrible like their other current stuff or chuck it in the trash bad like their older stuff. Choice analog gear and fat guitar tones do not survive RME conversion.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #32
„Only people with now experience...”
Blah blah
Sorry, this is really annoying. We work on a regular base with one of the best orchestras I’m the world (at least for modern music)
Last year we got nominateted for the best classical recording; but yes we are are really inexperienced. Deutsche Grammophon and Mist german broadcast studios (which are among the best) use RME. But that’s not the point. I was never a RME fanboy and We have a lot high end mojo stuff... but to say just people without experience... defend RME is really bullshxx.
If you cannot make a beautiful recording with a modern RME Converter I’m pretty sure that you have different issue.
That said: I really like a lot different high end stuff, too...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #33
Here for the gear
 

This thread is poppin off @ Derek don’t take any of our words for it, Go test some of them out!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #34
Sorry... and yes that’s true... try it by yourself. What I could do for you is to post some examples run through
Prism Orpheus
Merging Horus
RME m33 Ad pro
RME ADI 2-sac
Ramsa WZ AD96
Several MOTU
Focusrite ISA 428 MK I with AD board
We also have millennia hv3r with ad card and a “exotic” dbx 786 with ad board... however the millennia and dbx are not for line levels...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #35
Deleted e09cd8e
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby06 View Post
„Only people with now experience...”
Blah blah
Sorry, this is really annoying. We work on a regular base with one of the best orchestras I’m the world (at least for modern music)
Last year we got nominateted for the best classical recording; but yes we are are really inexperienced. Deutsche Grammophon and Mist german broadcast studios (which are among the best) use RME. But that’s not the point. I was never a RME fanboy and We have a lot high end mojo stuff... but to say just people without experience... defend RME is really bullshxx.
If you cannot make a beautiful recording with a modern RME Converter I’m pretty sure that you have different issue.
That said: I really like a lot different high end stuff, too...
I don't care about your orchestra, your nominations, or what poc is usable in a tv studio for a talking head. Most orchestra recordings seem to use crap remote control pres now to make tame performances even more boring.

I really don't care about your posted files or what these sound like with modern classical recordings. I've used many of those in real life. That is the only way to truly know. Loopbacks, posted files, and pre shootouts are not the same. The Merging stuff was detailed in my brief time with it and more tonally accurate than RME. MOTU is decent but warm. The old Focusrites with the Lundahl input transformers and Carnhill output transformers are excellent if a bit colored. I'm not huge on their modern pres but their converters can be excellent but the good ones are very overpriced.

With converters, some people can't hear it, others don't care, and others learn to eat **** and like it. Other people are very sensitive to the timbre changes. RME AD and DA have always been a "soundbadizer" to me that cuts the balls off recorded guitars and drums.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #36
This is just too silly. I'm making music since I was five and have passion for sound, recording and real hifi since I was 15. I have collected high end instruments, recording and hifi stuff since a long time and in my private life I play and listen jazz, latin and funk. How can you judge my experience... I gladly invite you to come by and we do your "real life" tests.
By the way: I never said that the above mentioned converters sound the same. (The Motus are fare away for example). I just offered to do a loop test with some converters that we have here.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #37
Here for the gear
 
Vasily111's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujigiridubs View Post
I’m don’t feel like going any further into the conversion thing but if the rme conversion is as good as it gets why do all these higher end products exist?
Do you want them to suddenly disappear? :D

Quote:
Are the people designing them deaf? Are you saying it’s all snake oil? Everyone who reviews these products and usually come to the same consensus are also deaf?

I am not saying top RME is better then the rest of the top of the market, I am saying that the conversion quality is on par with them (e.g. ADI-2 Pro FS), which can be seen from specs such as noise floor, dynamics range, THD, crosstalk, etc. (and which were crosschecked by some folks privately, e.g. https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/v...=619263&hilit= ) A lot of units are simply based on the same AKM chips, which shifts the difference to the analog parts of the interface.
What really different among them is coloration, that's why there are so many fans of Burl and so on, but it has nothing to do with a "mediocre conversion" thing.

And yes, higher price => more snake oil, that's how audiophile market is working :D
Old 3 weeks ago
  #38
Here for the gear
 
Vasily111's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby06 View Post
This is just too silly. I'm making music since I was five and have passion for sound, recording and real hifi since I was 15. I have collected high end instruments, recording and hifi stuff since a long time and in my private life I play and listen jazz, latin and funk. How can you judge my experience... I gladly invite you to come by and we do your "real life" tests.
By the way: I never said that the above mentioned converters sound the same. (The Motus are fare away for example). I just offered to do a loop test with some converters that we have here.
Don't even bother replying to him, I think the value of his words is clear now :D

By the way, what are your favorite converters out there, given that huge hands-on experience? Very interested in your opinion.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #39
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily111 View Post
Do you want them to suddenly disappear? :D

I am not saying top RME is better then the rest of the top of the market, I am saying that the conversion quality is on par with them (e.g. ADI-2 Pro FS), which can be seen from specs such as noise floor, dynamics range, THD, crosstalk, etc. (and which were crosschecked by some folks privately, e.g. https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/v...=619263&hilit= ) A lot of units are simply based on the same AKM chips, which shifts the difference to the analog parts of the interface.
What really different among them is coloration, that's why there are so many fans of Burl and so on, but it has nothing to do with a "mediocre conversion" thing.

And yes, higher price => more snake oil, that's how audiophile market is working :D

Do I want what to disappear? You are saying anyone who can hear a difference is deaf? I’m just trying to figure out how deep that opinion of your goes? More money = more snake oil? Anubis cost less then the pro fs :p oh and for that dynamic range comparison. You can slot the Anubis in there at 139
Old 3 weeks ago
  #40
Here for the gear
 
Vasily111's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujigiridubs View Post
You are saying anyone who can hear a difference is deaf?
No, I said an absolutely different thing, which you can look up if you scroll this thread up to the post, where I used the word "deaf".
Old 3 weeks ago
  #41
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily111 View Post
Regarding folks saying sh1t about recent RME conversion, I don't want to even comment that, because they are either deaf or just have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. SHOOTOUT[/URL]
I saw what you said! And asked questions that went unanswered. Sorry for triggering you! Just looking for some clarification on who you think is deaf? Considering I don’t think it was a coincidence that RME has a lot of bad reviews for its conversion. Nor do I think those people are deaf. This is why there are new converters being developed. And why people are always trying to achieve a higher quality sound. And like I said before, might not hear it one round trip. But there is a difference that can accumulate.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #42
Here for the gear
 
Vasily111's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujigiridubs View Post
I saw what you said! And asked questions that went unanswered. Sorry for triggering you! Just looking for some clarification on who you think is deaf? Considering I don’t think it was a coincidence that RME has a lot of bad reviews for its conversion. Nor do I think those people are deaf. This is why there are new converters being developed. And why people are always trying to achieve a higher quality sound. And like I said before, might not hear it one round trip. But there is a difference that can accumulate.
Sure, let me clarify what I said:
Show me any double-blind test or good lab specs analysis tests for recent RME conversion, which shows clearly bad conversion from RME. So far I saw tests that prove exactly the opposite, and I provided a few links in this thread already.
I never trust any subjective reviews in magazines (except for the benchmark parts in them), but, if you will, there are plenty of praising reviews as well, e.g. https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/rme-adi-2-pro - it's not for the recent (it's not FS) version, though it didn't stop them to be among the award winners in 2019

So far what I see is "bla bla someone said something" and further spreading that BS across the forum - and these folks, who do that with providing zero evidence are either deaf or have no idea what they are talking about.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #43
Deleted e09cd8e
Guest
Ruby, sorry I thought you were vasily.

RME usb drivers and total mix are killer for what they are. The Pci and pcie cards are top tier. The sound is far from it.

Vasily, it still sucks in comparison. Either other high end stuff is warmed over or RME is the end all be all of conversion. Burl does some stuff way more accurately than RME despite the transformers, roundness, and color of the tone. I’m out. I don’t have time for this. Listen to more stuff. Specs aren’t everything.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #44
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily111 View Post
Sure, let me clarify what I said:
Show me any double-blind test or good lab specs analysis tests for recent RME conversion, which shows clearly bad conversion from RME. So far I saw tests that prove exactly the opposite, and I provided a few links in this thread already.
I never trust any subjective reviews in magazines (except for the benchmark parts in them), but, if you will, there are plenty of praising reviews as well, e.g. https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/rme-adi-2-pro - it's not for the recent (it's not FS) version, though it didn't stop them to be among the award winners in 2019

So far what I see is "bla bla someone said something" and further spreading that BS across the forum - and these folks, who do that with providing zero evidence are either deaf or have no idea what they are talking about.
I dont see any benchmarks in ether of those links? Just the opinion of whoever wrote those articles? So that was pretty hypocritical dont ya think?

If you need some benchmarks here ya go!

On another thread they tested most popular converters for transparency.

#1 - Hilo
#2 - Hapi
#1 7 - Rme adi
#65 - UFX+

The Anubis has updated converters over the hapi from what merging has said. I will do some tests when i am back home

Here are the actual numbers. Tests were repeated, results were consistent. Guess i wasnt deaf after all


Lynx Hilo
-0,1 dB (L), -0,1 dB (R) Corr Depth: 41,8 dB (L), 43,7 dB (R), Difference*: -59.1 dBFS (L), -59.2 dBFS (R)
-0.1 dB (L), -0.1 dB (R)..Corr Depth: 41,8 dB (L), 43,6 dB (R) Difference*: -58.9 dBFS (L), -59.0 dBFS (R)
+24: 0.0 dB (L), 0.0 dB (R)..Corr Depth: 41,8 dB (L), 43,6 RMS Difference*: -59.1 dBFS (L), -59.1 dBFS (R)


Merging Technologies HAPI
0.391dB (L), 0.376dB (R) Corr Depth: 38,5 dB (L), 40,1 dB (R) Difference*: -58,9 dBFS (L), -60,3 dBFS (R)
0.08 dB (L), 0.07 dB (R) Corr Depth: 35,9 dB (L), 37,2 dB (R) Difference*: -53.0 dBFS (L), -52.8 dBFS (R)
0,20 dB (L), 0,2 dB (R)..Corr Depth: 36,2 dB (L), 37,6 dB (R) Difference*: -53.1 dBFS (L), -53.0 dBFS (R)


RME ADI-2 Pro, balanced out to balanced in (LesC)
0.4 dB (L), 0.4 dB (R)..Corr Depth: 33,6 dB (L), 35,2 dB (R) Difference*: -53.9 dBFS (L), -55.2 dBFS (R)
0.4 dB (L), 0.3 dB (R)..Corr Depth: 33,6 dB (L), 35,2 dB (R) Difference: -52.8 dBFS (L), -54.3 dBFS (R)
0.4 dB (L), 0.4 dB (R)..Corr Depth: 33,6 dB (L), 35,3 dB (R) Difference*: -44.5 dBFS (L), -45.5 dBFS (R)
0.3 dB (L), 0.3 dB (R)..Corr Depth: 33,6 dB (L), 35,2 dB (R) Difference*: -47.9 dBFS (L), -48.9 dBFS (R)
0,2 dB (L), 0,2 dB (R)..Corr Depth: 33,6 dB (L), 35,1 dB (R) Difference*: -44.3 dBFS (L), -45.4 dBFS (R)


RME Fireface UFX+ (paulthesparky)
0.2 dB (L), 0.2 dB (R)..Corr Depth: 28,0 dB (L), 29,5 dB (R) Difference*: -46.0 dBFS (L), -47.1 dBFS (R)



(only one test was done of the UFX would be interested to see a few more results. I was surprised by the size of the gap between it and the ADI)


Now that we can put a stupid conversion conversation to rest. We can go back to device pros and cons!

Drivers - RME>Anubis
Converters - Anubis>RME
Features - Anubis>RME
Price - Anubis>RME - (around $200 usd less then RME)
Look and Feel/Display - Anubis>RME (unless you prefer a nokia)
I/O - Anubis>RME
Flexibility - Anubis>RME (Aneman is unrivaled in this category)

@ Derek Reese at the end of the day you will be better off actually getting your hands on these devices and testing them for yourself. But i know what you'll choose when you do


Im also outa here! Good luck Derek!


Edit: heres the link to the tests!
Evaluating AD/DA loops by means of Audio Diffmaker
Old 3 weeks ago
  #45
Here for the gear
 
Vasily111's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujigiridubs View Post
I dont see any benchmarks in ether of those links?
Open the first link, click Ctrl+F on PC or Cmd+F for Mac, and enter "Bench"

Quote:
Just the opinion of whoever wrote those articles? So that was pretty hypocritical dont ya think?

If you need some benchmarks here ya go!
Please.... save me from this, this is not even close to being called a benchmark, as their methodology is flawed. It shows temperature on Mars, and has nothing to do with good lab tests. The industry standard measurements are things like SNR, THD and frequency response, not the inaudible phase shift in the inaudible region due to application of filters, which results in Diffmaker being not able to match input and output signal correctly.
It was discussed many times, and even commented by Matthias Carstens and his team with nitty-gritty details:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic...129935#p129935
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic...129688#p129688
Old 3 weeks ago
  #46
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily111 View Post
Open the first link, click Ctrl+F on PC or Cmd+F for Mac, and enter "Bench"


Please.... save me from this, this is not even close to being called a benchmark, as their methodology is flawed. It shows temperature on Mars, and has nothing to do with good lab tests. The industry standard measurements are things like SNR, THD and frequency response, not the inaudible phase shift in the inaudible region due to application of filters, which results in Diffmaker being not able to match input and output signal correctly.
It was discussed many times, and even commented by Matthias Carstens and his team with nitty-gritty details:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic...129935#p129935
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic...129688#p129688

whatever you say chief!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #47
Lives for gear
 

I bought a Merging Anubis a few months back and love it so far. Sound quality is excellent and the device feels very modern and well built. However, it was a bit finicky to set up, though I've never used a networked interface before, so part of the learning curve was on me. It's a shame there aren't Merging ASIO drivers (yet?), but the workarounds are easy enough. I think it's definitely worth checking out.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #48
Here for the gear
 
Vasily111's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujigiridubs View Post
whatever you say chief!
LOL

ESI [email protected] ($150)
Difference: -52,5 dBFS (L), -53,7 dBFS (R)

RME Fireface 400 ($500)
Difference*: -50.7 dBFS (L), 52.0 dBFS (R)

Forssell MADA-2 ($3,000)
Difference* -50.3 dBFS (L) , -51.7 dBFS (R)

Prism ADA-8XR ($10,000)
Difference*: -50,7 dBFS(L) -50,0 dBFS(R)


Some people have too much free time to do that nonsense.

So, I suppose, you will not provide here any double-blind tests or good lab specs tests that confirm mediocre qualities of recent RME conversion? No worries, I understand your challenge, it is difficult to provide things which do not exist. However, you still have that final unbeatable argument from that guy above: "It still sucks in comparison." to put a big fat dot in this conversation


Nevertheless, Merging seems to be making great hardware per the more or less real specs tests (https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/v...557590#p557590). If the drivers are not complete crap, it should be a great interface indeed.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #49
Gear Addict
 
FlyingMusician's Avatar
Why not just get a Focusrite or MOTU and pair it with a dedicated stereo pre-amp of your choice? Are there any blind tests out there that show anyone can tell the difference between low and high end converters? I think the last test I read the cheapest converter came out on top.
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