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Unknown tube in U67
Old 4 weeks ago
  #151
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toledo3's Avatar
 

How do you know are dissatisfied with the sound of the *capsule* when you are testing an assembled mic where many other aspects have been changed? Frankly, you have never done any sort of direct a/b.

If it sounds *bad*, don’t you think it should be replaced, considering the money you already spent? Send it back, tell them it’s unacceptable. If it is wrong, it will test wrong. Personally, if I bought a new capsule and it sounded somehow wrong, I would 100% pursue getting what I had just spent my money on from who I spent it with. But I am sure Klaus will do a fine job getting the old capsule in some sort of working state and sounding fine whether or not it would fully test the way a new capsule really would.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #152
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brewbacker's Avatar
 

Can you post another test recording with the new capsule? Same setup as before? I'd love to hear the difference.
Thanks, R
Old 3 weeks ago
  #153
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
How do you know are dissatisfied with the sound of the *capsule* when you are testing an assembled mic where many other aspects have been changed? Frankly, you have never done any sort of direct a/b.

If it sounds *bad*, don’t you think it should be replaced, considering the money you already spent? Send it back, tell them it’s unacceptable. If it is wrong, it will test wrong. Personally, if I bought a new capsule and it sounded somehow wrong, I would 100% pursue getting what I had just spent my money on from who I spent it with. But I am sure Klaus will do a fine job getting the old capsule in some sort of working state and sounding fine whether or not it would fully test the way a new capsule really would.
How do I know I am dissatisfied with the new capsule?
I can say that before I sent my mic to be evaluated the sound of the old 1978 capsule in cardioid sounded phenomenal.
Whatever mod’s were done to this microphone doesn’t matter at this point, only because the warmth and balance was extremely present.
When the new Neumann capsule was installed I immediately noticed a difference.
I’m not interested in trying to convince people, I don’t need these opinions to be on my side to feel better, the new Neumann capsule that was installed in my microphone did not sound like a U67 and that’s what I bought and that is what I want.
My 1978 capsule sounds magical and I don’t mind if Klaus called me and said only the front or rear. capsule is good and you can’t use Omni and figure 8,
No problem, I would keep it in Cardioid and smile.
I’ve been writing and recording music for over thirty years and I trust my ears and heart.
For all the folks that like the new k67 Neumann capsule’s god bless them, it’s not for me. It’s so hard to describe perfection to another person, the moment I spoke into my old capsule everything in my brain changed.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #154
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewbacker View Post
Can you post another test recording with the new capsule? Same setup as before? I'd love to hear the difference.
Thanks, R
I will gladly share the files and also compare them back to back.
I’ll need a few days to do so, i have a handful of family gatherings coming up but I can sneak away for a bit :-)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #155
I had the opposite experience. I was never a fan of the U67 and it didn't come close to my Tube SM69's in terms of beauty. Then I bought a pair of RI's for tax purposes and I thought they were just nice, quite a big sound but not a whole lot of character.
Once I added the matched pair of Telefunken EF806s tubes they sounded like a million dollars. Better than any old 67 I had ever used, just gorgeous and creamy.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #156
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty James View Post
And it is something that people that have dealt with lots of vintage (or not) mic service and repair very well know:
Changing even one cap or a resistor in any of these mics can change the sound drastically. Like a complete 180.
Can you quote at least one service and repair person who would confirm that changing one resistor or capacitor in a mikrofon will change the sound 180º?


Quote:
Your assumption that it is the new capsule that is making it sound different could be (and probably is) 100% incorrect.
Or 100% correct. With what Authority do you speak?

Quote:
I think you might have got a little off base here.
Googling
„Salty James" you don't show up in any search results as a technical expert in anything. What do you know that others don't?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #157
Gear Maniac
 
brewbacker's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Reese View Post
I will gladly share the files and also compare them back to back.
I’ll need a few days to do so, i have a handful of family gatherings coming up but I can sneak away for a bit :-)
Thanks man! Hope you get your mic sorted out.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #158
Gear Maniac
 
brewbacker's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
I had the opposite experience. I was never a fan of the U67 and it didn't come close to my Tube SM69's in terms of beauty. Then I bought a pair of RI's for tax purposes and I thought they were just nice, quite a big sound but not a whole lot of character.
Once I added the matched pair of Telefunken EF806s tubes they sounded like a million dollars. Better than any old 67 I had ever used, just gorgeous and creamy.
I've never had an opportunity to use a vintage 67, but I'm very pleased with the sound of my RI. I think the infamous vintage king shootout probably wasn't a very fair comparison(you have to get a nice nos tube), but I have heard other comparisons in which the RI was pretty indistinguishable from the vintage. Idk, I'm interested in hearing more clips with the new capsule. Maybe they are indeed hit or miss?
I'm going to get a tele ef806s now i guess lol.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #159
Jan-30th 2020 Update-
Mr Klaus evaluated my 1978 capsule and saw no problem in restoring it to full fidelity.
And only one day later Klaus was finished, it is in transit right now.

What Klaus repaired:
1- Three-way cleaning of two diaphragms, backplates and associates high impedance capsule components.
2- Repair of uneven edge tension on one diaphragm (wrinkles on capsule)
3- Replacement of K87 insulation spacer with original Neumann K67 40u conductive spacer.
4- Replacement of missing backplate assembly screw.
5- Fine tuning of capacitance, acoustic chambering.
6- Moisture sealing of relevant high impedance capsule components,
To prevent premature backdown.
7- Undenting, shaping of head basket.

I consider myself very fortunate to have Klaus bring my U67 back to life.
PS-
The seller paid a decent portion of the repair bill so in the end it all worked out.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #160
m03
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m03's Avatar
Weird, I was under the impression that Klaus had a (months?) long backlog, but it sounds like you were able to get it over and sorted out very quickly.

Anyway, good that it's restored to full functionality and hopefully it will serve you well for many years to come.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #161
Quote:
Originally Posted by m03 View Post
Weird, I was under the impression that Klaus had a (months?) long backlog, but it sounds like you were able to get it over and sorted out very quickly.

Anyway, good that it's restored to full functionality and hopefully it will serve you well for many years to come.
My post from page 5-
I have been driving Klaus crazy with questions for a while now and i also think that he felt bad for me and all the issues i was having (posting on gearslutz)
Klaus Heyne made an exception in his busy schedule, because he was upset about the persistent incompetence of technicians who fail to properly diagnose and restore malfunctioning capsules, and who rather sell me a new one. And he took mercy on my (very loud) cry for help.
And thank you, I plan to make beautiful albums with this !!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #162
Lives for gear
 

That's wonderful Derek!! And now Klaus can finally mod my MXL V69 to rival a U67 or C12! (I just know he can't wait)
Chris
Old 3 weeks ago
  #163
@ Derek Reese

Great to hear man! Always nice to hear a somewhat painless solution to your troubles . And kudos to Klaus!

From the few tests available I also felt the new capsules where not in the same league as the vintage ones. Although owners expressed their joy and seems to be very happy overall.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #164
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The last 2 U67 RI's at this NAMM, and last year's...
Sounded fantastic. (Never have sung through an Original).

The first one I tried however, at 2018 NAMM...
Had all the earmarks of what Klaus described in a lesser/poorly tensioned capsule. Anemic in comparison. Maybe the tube was off too.
Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #165
Just did a vocal test and the mic i fell in love with is back everyone :-)
The low end is so creamy and rich.
I compared it to the first time i recorded a vocal with the mic, after the new capsule was installed and now back to the original capsule and there is no contest at all in my opinion.
Klaus is the man which we all already know, but i am sending a hug hug to you Klaus, thank you for having a big heart and making time for me brother.
I also want to thank everyone for their input and comments.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #166
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We want clips, or it never happened!
Great to hear Derek.
Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #167
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
We want clips, or it never happened!
Great to hear Derek.
Chris
I am working on it brother Chris :-)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #168
I wanted to take a moment to also give a special thank you to Christian Whitmore of pro audio tubes for selecting and selling me two amazing sounding Telefunken EF86 tubes, circa 1968.
Forgive me, i forgot who suggested that i reach out to Christian ( a million thank you's)
who is also here on GS as Bowie.
What a great guy to do business with, friendly and very knowledgable.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #169
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That would be brewbacker!
Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #170
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Just worked with Christian to get $2K of amazing tubes for my 67 RI, Retro Sta-Level and 2 Retro 176s. Fantastic experience and I learned a LOT. Just installing on the 176s today but got the new tubes in the Sta last week. The Sta-Level is now my favorite vocal compressor. May be the honeymoon effect but I try to be brutally objective, am loving what I am hearing.

For the 67, I selected both Telefunken and Amperex.

The Tele exaggerated sibilance on a female vocalist, was nice on acoustic guitar.

The vocalist and I noticed the sibilance during tracking, I was frankly so surprised the 67 RI with Tele was so sibilant that I decided to stay with the Tele to double-check what I was hearing in post and to run it by Christian who was predictably wide open to a return if I didn't like it.

I confirmed the issue in post, will gladly keep the Tele, continue experimenting with the 67 and tubes across different vocalists this year. I will certainly be using the Tele in the 67 on some instruments. The sibilance was acute enough to require 2 rounds of FabFilter DS and 3:00 negative feedback from a Coil Audio 286. Tracking was 67 RI to Coil 70 with Noon negative feedback as I was dialing NF to max to try to subdue the sibilance. I did go back to my last female tracking with the 67 RI and the stock tube, have to admit, there was a bit of sibilance on female vocalists, which also surprised me, but it was not enough to be an issue and I did not treat it in post.

I'll check out the Amperex and report back after the next big session 2/22.

I am also fortunate to have some other great Teles from Coil Audio, which I can borrow from my 286s, to try in the 67 RI: "4 ‘new in dealer box’ matched solid silver plate Telefunken EF86, a revered tube – used in classic Neumann microphones and other fine Telefunken/Siemens era audio architecture."

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Reese View Post
I wanted to take a moment to also give a special thank you to Christian Whitmore of pro audio tubes for selecting and selling me two amazing sounding Telefunken EF86 tubes, circa 1968.
Forgive me, i forgot who suggested that i reach out to Christian ( a million thank you's)
who is also here on GS as Bowie.
What a great guy to do business with, friendly and very knowledgable.

Last edited by StevenLMorgan; 2 weeks ago at 11:22 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #171
Lives for gear
 

I'd expect a vintage NOS Mullard to mellow things out, generically...
Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #172
When you say 67 RI, I assume you mean reissue ?
I have absolutely no sibilants whatsoever on my 1963 67 with the Tele EF86’s, they are marvelous:-)
Although I am very curious to try a Tele ef806 if I can get my hands on one :-)
It’s like going to a candy store, oooh what does this one taste like lol
Old 2 weeks ago
  #173
I'm having a hard time believing a different tube will make such huge difference although i never dug into the whole a/b myself..

But.. Me and a friend will do an a/b which I will probably post here on GS. He has a Neumann u47 with a vf14 which we're gonna replace with Phaedrus vf14 clone tube. That's gonna be real interesting!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #174
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My money is on the original VF-14.
Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #175
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
My money is on the original VF-14.
Chris
Yes like pretty much everyone else haha but still I would think the capsule should have the largest impact to the sonic quality. I'm just having a hard time believing a tube can be so special that nothing can replace it.

If it sounds good though I might remove my vf14 too and keep it in a box and replace it too with a phaedrus
Old 2 weeks ago
  #176
Lives for gear
 

Yes, 67 Reissue.

I don't have a great comparison yet, am sharing what I heard. Different vocalists, different songs on these two recordings. I have recorded both vocalists dozens of times on dozens of mics, never ran into a sibilance issue.

Johanna on the 67 Reissue with the Neumann-provided tube:

https://soundcloud.com/user-62615386...ession/s-7CjMH

Gracie on the 67 Reissue with the Telefunken EF86

https://soundcloud.com/user-62615386...-67-ri/s-qzZ92

Edit:

For the comparative record, here is a short clip of Gracie on the Chandler TG Mic 3 months earlier. BTW, LOTS of chatter about the TG Mic sibilance, I did not find Gracie sibilant on the TG (although her early plosive on this raw vocal is an issue) while Gracie is sibilant on the 67 with Tele tube. Not knocking the 67 Reissue, or the tube, just sharing what I have heard with different tubes on the 67 and referencing a different mic on Gracie for context.

https://soundcloud.com/user-626153869/gracie-tg/s-etj3n


Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Reese View Post
When you say 67 RI, I assume you mean reissue ?
I have absolutely no sibilants whatsoever on my 1963 67 with the Tele EF86’s, they are marvelous:-)
Although I am very curious to try a Tele ef806 if I can get my hands on one :-)
It’s like going to a candy store, oooh what does this one taste like lol

Last edited by StevenLMorgan; 2 weeks ago at 02:22 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #177
Gear Maniac
 

ef86 are a tube that make an audible difference for sure.. I’d assume the sibilance could be more so source dependent. Those tele’s are know to be very musical and deff open up the 67
Old 2 weeks ago
  #178
Quote:
Originally Posted by nephew312 View Post
ef86 are a tube that make an audible difference for sure.. I’d assume the sibilance could be more so source dependent. Those tele’s are know to be very musical and deff open up the 67
I agree, i hear more pronounced sibilance with the ef86 tube, but it sounds source related.
I worked with an incredible female vocalist many moons ago, she could make you fall to your knees, but she never curbed or learned how to control sibilance.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #179
Gear Maniac
 
brewbacker's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nephew312 View Post
ef86 are a tube that make an audible difference for sure.. I’d assume the sibilance could be more so source dependent. Those tele’s are know to be very musical and deff open up the 67
Not a subtle difference switching to a nos amperex
Old 2 weeks ago
  #180
Lives for gear
 

Christian provided his thoughts on the Amperex EF86 in a 67:

“-Amperex EF86 (early versions only); People who are wanting a bit more midrange fullness than the Tele while still getting some clarity in the highs tend to like the Amperex. There is a small bump in the bass and highs (around 200Hz and 9-10k). The Amperex has some character to it but is still very versatile. They have nice harmonic richness, great detail, and smooth mids as well.”

I’ll likely have Johanna on it 2/22 so, we’ll see.

FWIW, I like to post Johanna for gear comparisons as she is a good, passionate singer, nice range and a very pleasant voice. I always brag on her: cannot say enough good things about Johanna and her family; Mom, Dad and five kids. Three oldest are teen girls who are all so sweet, they can’t possibly be real teen girls, two standing in the picture on Johanna’s SoundCloud vocal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewbacker View Post
Not a subtle difference switching to a nos amperex

Last edited by StevenLMorgan; 2 weeks ago at 12:37 PM..
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