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Neve vs SSL
Old 9th December 2019
  #61
Gear Maniac
 
Digiplex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidaudio View Post
I`ve heard some rock projects through a 9k, sounded great to me. I never worked on one but people keep saying it's more of a pop console. Awesome desk though, wish I had the cash. Stay away from the Axiom.

4k kicks!

I wasn't bashing the Matrix either, it's great. I know it's a digitally controlled analog mixer and not a controller.

The Neotek Elite comes to mind, very SSL'ish sound.
I think for the pop stuff of today a 9k would be the best bet. But I’ve also read that it’s a hot running beast.
Old 9th December 2019
  #62
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Sure - it was more a defence of the product than a suggestion for you.



well - you do you! What's the problem with the trident though?
Trident's problem:
1\-No automation
2\-24 channels (I need 48 to 64 channels)
Old 9th December 2019
  #63
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiplex View Post
When you get it invite me over to check it out! Lol
Sure .
Old 9th December 2019
  #64
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidaudio View Post
I`ve heard some rock projects through a 9k, sounded great to me. I never worked on one but people keep saying it's more of a pop console. Awesome desk though, wish I had the cash. Stay away from the Axiom.

4k kicks!

I wasn't bashing the Matrix either, it's great. I know it's a digitally controlled analog mixer and not a controller.

The Neotek Elite comes to mind, very SSL'ish sound.
The SSL 9k is very good desk but:
1\-Very high price
2\-I don't love how the automation works.
Old 10th December 2019
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youcef View Post
Trident's problem:
1\-No automation
2\-24 channels (I need 48 to 64 channels)
Fair enough re channels. Not sure you can buy a 48ch SSL and just add buckets to it without some work internally.

I wouldn't want to go back to SSL automation having worked on DAW automation. Nor would I want to rely on SSL automation unless I knew a good tech or two locally - I've seen it go down mid session and it's not pretty!

maybe if you get one of these retrofit options that records back to the DAW...
Old 10th December 2019
  #66
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Fair enough re channels. Not sure you can buy a 48ch SSL and just add buckets to it without some work internally.

I wouldn't want to go back to SSL automation having worked on DAW automation. Nor would I want to rely on SSL automation unless I knew a good tech or two locally - I've seen it go down mid session and it's not pretty!

maybe if you get one of these retrofit options that records back to the DAW...
He’s found a 4064 that’s partly loaded and it has the tangerine upgrade. No worries with that rig
Old 10th December 2019
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiplex View Post
He’s found a 4064 that’s partly loaded and it has the tangerine upgrade. No worries with that rig
Fair enough. Not the route I’d take, but a million times better than buying a vr!
Old 10th December 2019
  #68
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRoy View Post
I was considering a VR but read bad things about it. It runs really hot and needs constant service. I went with a D&R. It’s like a poor man’s SSL except the automation speaks midi, no need to be strapped to an ancient computer. The downside is no EQ recall. D&R are based in the Netherlands so they should be more common in Europe than the US, but that’s just a guess.
Some would say the high end D&Rs sound better than a SSL 4k
Old 10th December 2019
  #69
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youcef View Post
I found a 48 channel SSL 4000G selled with automation and PSU replacement under 50k, it's in great cosmetic condition and just need to fix some issiues on the ultimation faders
I dont think a 50k budget is enough for a 48ch 'great' VR or 4k G+. but maybe.. if your in the right place at the right time. (you need to have 'your' tech do a report before you buy)

You will spend another $20,000 USD to commission and wire the desk.
And then the shipping costs and repairs.

From your questions i can see you dont know much about LFAC . I recommend you hire a pro to help you get the right desk, shipped, commissioned and repaired.
Also, ongoing maintenance for a LFAC is required so you should budget for a full time on call tech.

And then the room you will put it in.. There are basic requirements for a desk like that.

Last edited by stevep; 10th December 2019 at 03:43 PM..
Old 10th December 2019
  #70
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep View Post
Some would say the high end D&Rs sound better than a SSL 4k
Hard to find those too. Not many let go of them
Old 10th December 2019
  #71
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiplex View Post
Hard to find those too. Not many let go of them
True,. but they are out there. I have an Octagon and i am always looking for spare parts.
Old 10th December 2019
  #72
Gear Maniac
 
Digiplex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep View Post
True,. but they are out there. I have an Octagon and i am always looking for spare parts.
Haha that’s funny you’re the guy from my YouTube video search. Tell me more about that Octagon! There’s one cover song on your SoundCloud that sounded lovely with the female vocal.
Old 10th December 2019
  #73
Never owned an SSL but i know a very good tech and we talked about it many times since I was close to buying a 4k a couple of years ago.

A few things to consider:

1. Buy a late 90's console. They improved a few things over the years which makes those consoles a bit cheaper to maintain. Also old 80's channels are well, old..
2. Be sure you get the cables with the console. Allot of studios just cut the cables since they go through walls etc. Cables are very pricey.


I've seen good 4k G+ consoles in Sweden for around 35-45k Euros. So it would definitely be possible to find one.
Old 10th December 2019
  #74
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiplex View Post
Haha that’s funny you’re the guy from my YouTube video search. Tell me more about that Octagon! There’s one cover song on your SoundCloud that sounded lovely with the female vocal.

Thanks Yea, I love the D&R Octagon more and more each time i use it,. both tracking and mixing. D&Rs are known for their clean sound, it is so easy for me to get a good mix on this console in the new room. (the room is a big part).

I use the desk automation, EQs, dynamics, and mic amps i dont even have any outboard mic amps . The routing has so many possibilities. One thing i would change if i was designing this desk is the patchbays, i would use Moses and Mitchel bays wired to Elcos. but the Switchcraft bays work fine.

Another great thing with D&R is they dont need recapping very often. I dont think there are many caps in the audio path. And the audio path is super simple to get the best quality.

Plus, i can turn it off when i leave the studio, and so far every time i turn it back on she starts up perfect that saves a ton of money on the electric bill.. my desk pulls 12 amps at 240v.

I added an Audioscape SSL bus comp in the master inserts and, Soon i will add a Silver Bullet to the master inserts . i cant wait !!!

I have 48 D-A and 32 A-D all 1/2 normaled to the Bus outs and Tape Returns. And a few AUX 1/2 normaled to the A-D for Eff sends.
Old 10th December 2019
  #75
Gear Maniac
 
Liquidaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiplex View Post
Hard to find those too. Not many let go of them
Just cleaner. I had an Orion before the 4K.
Old 10th December 2019
  #76
Gear Maniac
 
Digiplex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep View Post
True,. but they are out there. I have an Octagon and i am always looking for spare parts.
What’s the power supply like on that board? Is it really 7 boxes? Can u post a pic?
Old 10th December 2019
  #77
Quote:
Do you think old SSL will always be a great mixing desk in 10 or 20 years?
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Possibly, but no one will actually be using one for mixing in 20 years. People are barely using them now!
OP, if this is a personal or vanity project, do whatever makes you happy (that you can afford). In particular take note of SteveP's advice - commissioning an LFAC is not trivial, nor is it inexpensive. There are some good threads here (for instance a commissioning thread by James Lugo) that really provide a lot of details that you may not consider.
Detailed journal of my SSL 6048 E|G+ instal.

However, if this is a commercial studio business where you aren't the only one using the desk, then my response would be exactly the opposite - buying a 30 year old SSL 4K console at this point would be a very foolish business move considering how much things have changed even in the last 5 years, let alone 20.

Already Millenials and Gen Z are trending towards increasingly digital processes (no surprise there). Given 10 or 20 years, these people will make up the majority of the active recording & mixing workforce, and they will have grown up VERY differently than many of us who are in this right now. Analog consoles will be nothing more than a very tiny niche thing by that point (one could argue they already are!), and they certainly won't be the preference of the majority.

Last edited by bambamboom; 10th December 2019 at 08:19 PM..
Old 10th December 2019
  #78
Lives for gear
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiplex View Post
What’s the power supply like on that board? Is it really 7 boxes? Can u post a pic?
I believe Steve is running 2x18v 4u supplies (one for the board, one for the dynamics cards) and a 2u 12v for the motors. The lovely thing about them is... no fan! No fuses either. Not much to them looks-wise except a lit power switch and a logo.
Old 10th December 2019
  #79
Gear Maniac
 
Digiplex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRoy View Post
I believe Steve is running 2x18v 4u supplies (one for the board, one for the dynamics cards) and a 2u 12v for the motors. The lovely thing about them is... no fan! No fuses either. Not much to them looks-wise except a lit power switch and a logo.
Well now I’m curious about it after his videos and such.
It looks interesting
Old 10th December 2019
  #80
Gear Maniac
 
Liquidaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
buying a 30 year old SSL 4K console at this point would be a very foolish business move considering how much things have changed even in the last 5 years, let alone 20.

Already Millenials and Gen Z are trending towards increasingly digital processes (no surprise there). Given 10 or 20 years, these people will make up the majority of the active recording & mixing workforce, and they will have grown up VERY differently than many of us who are in this right now. Analog consoles will be nothing more than a very tiny niche thing by that point (one could argue they already are!), and they certainly won't be the preference of the majority.
Kids these days don't give a **** I know, as long as I'm happy working on an old spaceship.

Stuff comes together so fast on a console though, makes stuff sound like a record fast.
Old 10th December 2019
  #81
Gear Maniac
 
Digiplex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
OP, if this is a personal or vanity project, do whatever makes you happy (that you can afford). In particular take note of SteveP's advice - commissioning an LFAC is not trivial, nor is it inexpensive. There are some good threads here (for instance a commissioning thread by James Lugo) that really provide a lot of details that you may not consider.
Detailed journal of my SSL 6048 E|G+ instal.

However, if this is a commercial studio business where you aren't the only one using the desk, then my response would be exactly the opposite - buying a 30 year old SSL 4K console at this point would be a very foolish business move considering how much things have changed even in the last 5 years, let alone 20.

Already Millenials and Gen Z are trending towards increasingly digital processes (no surprise there). Given 10 or 20 years, these people will make up the majority of the active recording & mixing workforce, and they will have grown up VERY differently than many of us who are in this right now. Analog consoles will be nothing more than a very tiny niche thing by that point (one could argue they already are!), and they certainly won't be the preference of the majority.
Good suggestions on the James Lugo thread.
I think he already has a Trident console with analog so he’s not a new to a console.
Old 10th December 2019
  #82
Gear Head
 

The VR and the 4k are the only two large format analog consoles under 50k.
So if the VR is as bad as pepole say, I'll finally go with the ssl.
Old 10th December 2019
  #83
Gear Maniac
 
Digiplex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Youcef View Post
The VR and the 4k are the only two large format analog consoles under 50k.
So if the VR is as bad as pepole say, I'll finally go with the ssl.
There’s a lot of records done on the vr. I know of a room near me too that has one. I think both have their issues kinda like old cars. I’d want to run some stuff threw both to see what moved me. Because I think the one may hit my music better than the other in real world use.
Old 10th December 2019
  #84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youcef View Post
The VR and the 4k are the only two large format analog consoles under 50k.
So if the VR is as bad as pepole say, I'll finally go with the ssl.
My local tech recapped and refurbished an VR and I think the client ended up spending atleast 20k to get it into shape. The console was quite cheap to buy but it ended up being quite expensive..


That goes for any old console. If you have a tech you trust let him inspect the console before you buy it.
Old 10th December 2019
  #85
Gear Addict
 

Neves are known to run hot and the capacitors dry out quickly.

Get the SSL. How many *simultaneous* recording preamps do you need? Just get a rack of preamps you like and use the SSL for mixing.

you can get a used api 3124 (four preamps) for around $1800. get one of those and six neve preamps and call it a day. auxillary maraca #3 won't mind if it's tracked through an ssl preamp.
Old 10th December 2019
  #86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youcef View Post
The VR and the 4k are the only two large format analog consoles under 50k.
So if the VR is as bad as pepole say, I'll finally go with the ssl.
A well maintained VR sounds fine. Different to an SSL, but still good.

That’s not the issue - I have no issues using one!

The issues are spare parts, that they run hot so components fail a lot, they’re annoying to service (just getting to one module means taking off 15 or so screws, it’s stupid!), you need a good tech or you’ll never get it to a great standard, and so on. I don’t really care for the EQs or dynamics either.

They’re just not a good investment.

The SSL by contrast is easier to service, much better supported, contains far fewer switches and components, runs cooler, and is generally a better built desk.

I still wouldn’t want one but if you have to choose between the 2 it’s obvious.
Old 11th December 2019
  #87
Gear Maniac
 
Digiplex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Youcef View Post
The VR and the 4k are the only two large format analog consoles under 50k.
So if the VR is as bad as pepole say, I'll finally go with the ssl.
50k no I could look at all kinds of consoles.
Amek, Trident Vector , Ssl Aws , D&R , Cadac , Raindirk
Old 11th December 2019
  #88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiplex View Post
50k no I could look at all kinds of consoles.
Amek, Trident Vector , Ssl Aws , D&R , Cadac , Raindirk
AWS - not enough channels though!
Old 11th December 2019
  #89
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
AWS - not enough channels though!
Yeah maybe the stereo channel one wouldn’t work
For his setup. I personally just like it lol
Couldn’t he set those as mono but I guess no fader on a 948
Old 11th December 2019
  #90
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Fair enough re channels. Not sure you can buy a 48ch SSL and just add buckets to it without some work internally.

I wouldn't want to go back to SSL automation having worked on DAW automation. Nor would I want to rely on SSL automation unless I knew a good tech or two locally - I've seen it go down mid session and it's not pretty!

maybe if you get one of these retrofit options that records back to the DAW...
I hated the automation so much on the SSL (4K) I just did it Manual. Edit mixes together in PT post production if there was too much to do (in which case I usually called more hands on deck). Today I use hybrid, and much automation is in PT, but I do still ride faders and such on the console for printing (these days I will edit mixes together as it’s hard to get more hands on deck than in the 90s-variety of reasons). You know-first half of print one, and 2nd half of print 2. Like that. If I nail the first half of print one, I won’t even worry about he first half on print two (if needed)
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