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First Summing Box - Four Options
Old 3 weeks ago
  #61
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
FWIW, Tony Kamel posted this over in the Silver Bullet thread:



He then went on to share a blind test of Burl summing vs the SB on the mixbus:

Louder than Liftoff Silver Bullet first impressions

Have a listen. You can also run channels through the SB, giving each that analog glue/separation. Even better!

Other ITB options: Leapwing StageOne and CenterOne (prefer this to DrMS, @ bambamboom you might want to check it out) along with Airwindows Console6 and Kazrog True Iron.
How do you use Leapwing StageOne and CenterOne can you elaborate a bit? I might have to demo them, a put them to test against DrMS.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #62
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NekstMusick View Post
How do you use Leapwing StageOne and CenterOne can you elaborate a bit? I might have to demo them, a put them to test against DrMS.
C1 on a full mix is all about the phantom center, pushing it back or pulling towards you. If you like the way some comps make the center more prominent, you can do a similar thing with C1. Same for the sides. Sounds very natural. Also handy when mixing, you can drop the center on things like pads to make room for other elements. Quite cool to automate on the music bus too; easy to give vocals a bit more space up the middle when mixes start to get more complicated. Works nicely with some subtle spectral ducking (smartComp).

S1 is damn good at adding subtle (but lovely) width and depth. Like the 5% you get from going OTB. Also very handy when mixing for the same reasons, or making mono sources wider.

Take one of the mastering/compression files from the big comparison threads and use an ITB comp along with StageOne. It gets that extra bit closer to the HW.

Interested to hear your thoughts!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
C1 on a full mix is all about the phantom center, pushing it back or pulling towards you. If you like the way some comps make the center more prominent, you can do a similar thing with C1. Same for the sides. Sounds very natural. Also handy when mixing, you can drop the center on things like pads to make room for other elements. Quite cool to automate on the music bus too; easy to give vocals a bit more space up the middle when mixes start to get more complicated. Works nicely with some subtle spectral ducking (smartComp).

S1 is damn good at adding subtle (but lovely) width and depth. Like the 5% you get from going OTB. Also very handy when mixing for the same reasons, or making mono sources wider.

Take one of the mastering/compression files from the big comparison threads and use an ITB comp along with StageOne. It gets that extra bit closer to the HW.

Interested to hear your thoughts!
Great I'll give it a try!! And then I could blame you to my wallet
Old 3 weeks ago
  #64
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NekstMusick View Post
Great I'll give it a try!! And then I could blame you to my wallet
They go on sale quite often, wait for Black Friday :¬)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
They go on sale quite often, wait for Black Friday :¬)
Yes I know, I will. Thanks!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripripstabstab View Post
This kind of approach reminds me of the synthesizer crowd where dudes will say they're getting 90% of the way to the 'real deal' by doing X, Y and Z with various things when you could get 100% of the way there by spending the money and turning the real thing on.
I'm not claiming 90%. I tweaked to the point that I literally could not tell the difference between it and my (former) Neve summing mixer (in side by side testing).

I don't claim to have golden ears and despite 20+ years of experience fully realize that I am just one more random dude on the internet, so feel free to discount what I am saying if you think I am just blowing smoke.

Regardless, I will continue to champion what can actually be accomplished ITB in modern times with a little know-how. I understand why that's sometimes unpopular, especially at a site that reinforces Gear Acquisition Syndrome.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #67
Here for the gear
 

Summing is exceptional with the 2Bus+. Hands down.

AndromedaA6,
I have two Dangerous 2Bus+ units and they are absolutely great. You want the cleanest sound possible so you can truly hear what is going on in the stereo field and imaging. The 2Bus+ has a great sounding color section if you prefer that and can easily be engaged on the two channel output or on channels 13-14 or 15-16.
A big advantage with summing I have noticed is diminished ear fatigue. This is big. After hours of listening and tweaking, I find I have much less ear fatigue and enjoy the process much more. I have excellent converters and clock from Black Lion Audio...
One thing I find with ITB mixing is when I change one aspect of a mix, like a plugin EQ or compressor, it greatly affects everything else in the mix. Somehow, the mix would get duller or less spacial. The more tracks, the more trouble. This I did not notice until I hooked my first 2Bus+ up and experimented. Having a DAC for each track makes such a difference, it's inarguable. I liked the sound so much, I purchased another 2Bus+, then a Liaison. I have everything hooked up to a Dangerous Source for monitoring and use a pair of Dynaudio LYD48's speakers. 32 channels in total.
I tried the DrMS and found it useful, but the same issue crops up with ITB mixing... the more you try to do in the mix, the more the sound field degrades and every little tweak has unintended consequences. I believe this is a result of the limitations inherent in computers and though plugins compensate well, they are unable to scale when pushed to a maximum. I have nearly all of UAD plugins, Waves Mercury, Plugin Alliance, SoundToys, Soft Tube, etc. and still use them extensively with summing. The best of both worlds.
If your mix is simple and uncomplicated, ITB is fine. If your mix is complicated and dense, a summing amp or desk is the answer.
I have heard all of the arguments for ITB vs. Summing and I can tell you from my experience, my ears and my time... Summing wins every time.
If your Sweetwater rep recommends the Dangerous 2Bus+ units... it's because they are absolutely top of the line and will hold considerable value for years to come.
I hope this helps.
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