The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Micing an Electric Guitar Amp with a U67
Old 24th October 2019
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Micing an Electric Guitar Amp with a U67

Just began experimenting with my U67 Reissue on Electric Guitars. Trying the John Leckie style of combining it with a 57, both right up on the grill (about an inch or so away due to the shockmount). I've tried puling the mics back 6 inches, a foot, and 2 feet, and thus far, the immediacy of the inch back sounds best to me, though I'll continue experimenting. Found I had to turn on the -10db pad on the U67 so it doesn't distort, and run it at the lowest gain setting on my BAE 1073 for it to not clip the converters. The amp is a small 5 watt amp built by George Alessandro, with a 10"speaker that I crank up all the way.

Thought I'd start a post for tips and suggestions using the 67 with electric guitars. Is there a way to pad the mic further to get more gain and color from the 1073, or best to just leave the 1073 at its lowest setting? Anyone run it through a compressor? Finding that sending the signal through an LA2A sounds amazing with zero compression, just going through the circuitry (though a few db of comp sounds great too).

Any advice on using a 67 for electric guitars would be great as I experiment more. Thanks!
Old 24th October 2019
  #2
Lives for gear
 

This rough demo I recorded all the guitar with a KH modded U67. About 2 ft away from a Marshall jmp into a 4x12 Marshall cab boosted with a tube screamer.



82 Gibson Flying Vee
Old 25th October 2019
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Klaus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikoo69 View Post
Just began experimenting with my U67 Reissue on Electric Guitars. (...) right up on the grill (about an inch or so away due to the shock mount).
If this were my U67, I would not do that.

Through the years I have found that the Mylar of capsule diaphragms exposed to extremely high SPLs will change*, and the frequencies somehow "burn in" at the prominent, focussed frequencies, altering the response, and not for the better.

I cannot explain it and don't feel like arguing my experience, but often when I get a capsule that has a certain funny, grainy midrange, and I ask about the mic's history, it turns out that it was positioned close-up to a Marshall stack or exposed to similar high SPLs- spots where I would not put my my ear for even five seconds.

Forever I've given this rule of thumb to customers: place your condenser mic not any closer to a sound source than you would comfortably place your ears for the duration of the session. Ignore the advice at your discretion and peril.

*A chemist I consulted speculated that there are molecular changes in the Polyester film when bombarded with high SPLs for extended periods
Old 25th October 2019
  #4
Lives for gear
 
mattcollen's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus View Post
If this were my U67, I would not do that.

Through the years I have found that the Mylar of capsule diaphragms exposed to extremely high SPLs will change*, and the frequencies somehow "burn in" at the prominent, focussed frequencies, altering the response, and not for the better.

I cannot explain it and don't feel like arguing my experience, but often when I get a capsule that has a certain funny, grainy midrange, and I ask about the mic's history, it turns out that it was positioned close-up to a Marshall stack or exposed to similar high SPLs- spots where I would not put my my ear for even five seconds.

Forever I've given this rule of thumb to customers: place your condenser mic not any closer to a sound source than you would comfortably place your ears for the duration of the session. Ignore the advice at your discretion and peril.

*A chemist I consulted speculated that there are molecular changes in the Polyester film when bombarded with high SPLs for extended periods
I am no expert like Klaus regarding what SPLs will or will not do to a capsule, but I 100% agree his sentiment. My dear and precious mics (U67 and U47) are treated like ears. When I use a U67 on a guitar amp, which is not often, I attenuate my guitar amps significantly (2 watts). Ultimately, the volume is a comfortable level, and I then I place my U67 off axis about two feet away from the amp. It sounds great and as if it was close mic'ed (but I have a very, very dead amp room). I firmly believe that recording attenuated amps can result in wonderful tones. I am no longer a believer in the idea that amps must only be recorded at ear destroying levels.
Old 25th October 2019
  #5
Lives for gear
 
emrr's Avatar
You can skip the preamp completely, and possibly turn the pad back off in doing so. I have found that true with a Fender Deluxe at medium high volume, maybe a foot out. Straight into the converter, no problem.
Old 25th October 2019
  #6
Lives for gear
 
jjblair's Avatar
U67 is my absolute favorite guitar amp mic, and not withstanding Klaus' warning, I have not had any issues recording amps. Also, you don't need to use super loud amps in the studio. Remember, Funk 49 is a Fender Champ, and the Kid Charlemagne solo is a Tweed Deluxe.

Put the mic about a foot off. Forget the 57. It's not only not necessary, but the phase issue with dissimilar distances is going to sound weird. I like adding some 3k, which brings out the thee texture nicely. Lows can be added or subtracted to taste. But this never fails to sounds almost exactly like the sound of the amp when you're standing in front of it.
Old 25th October 2019
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
U67 is my absolute favorite guitar amp mic, and not withstanding Klaus' warning, I have not had any issues recording amps. Also, you don't need to use super loud amps in the studio. Remember, Funk 49 is a Fender Champ, and the Kid Charlemagne solo is a Tweed Deluxe.

Put the mic about a foot off. Forget the 57. It's not only not necessary, but the phase issue with dissimilar distances is going to sound weird. I like adding some 3k, which brings out the thee texture nicely. Lows can be added or subtracted to taste. But this never fails to sounds almost exactly like the sound of the amp when you're standing in front of it.

Well this is interesting. It was really the first time I’d tried it. Klaus I’m curious what type of Db level you’d consider high spl? I have a meter in my room and the peaks were only around 100 dB . I have to say I really liked the result . I was certainly able to stand dialing it in right next to the amp. Not super loud. But I don’t want to screw up my baby either lol
Old 25th October 2019
  #8
Lives for gear
 

I’m going to try the U67 a foot out. The room is very dead so it should work without any room reflections.

The amp is only 4 watts with a 10” speaker, though cranked so it’s still loud.

Will try it without the 57 as well. Worth setting the 57 up a foot out as well, or is the 57 best close mic’d?

Though I will say the tone with the 67 and 57 up on the grill is amazing. Hopefully I like the U67 a foot out just as much.

Last edited by mikoo69; 25th October 2019 at 03:04 PM..
Old 25th October 2019
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Klaus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoggin View Post
Klaus I’m curious what type of Db level you’d consider high spl? I have a meter in my room and the peaks were only around 100 dB.
The way the theory was explained to me: it's not just the unweighted or A-weighted SPL, measured in dB, but narrow, highly focused mid range frequencies that do the damage. From experience I know that Polyerster/Mylar is extremely heat and pressure resistant to change, but somehow when the volume is centered around a narrow frequency band, the stuff seems to respond with a change (in molecular arrangement?)

I welcome any chemist (not hobby chemist) with a background in thin plastic foils to chime in and either confirm or debunk the theory. But this much is clear: high-SPL exposed capsules, among them fet47s used exclusively as kick mics and CK12 used on loud stacks, etc. come through here regularly for a capsule replacement.
Old 25th October 2019
  #10
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

When you get very close to a speaker that is having intense excursions that you can feel, they can be almost plosive-like. And then there is that kind of “ice pick in the ear” effect of very snappy transients...like a Tele or Strat through a Fender amp with the bright switch on.

Those will definitely hammer some ribbon mics with less shielded baskets and make them sag, and I have long thought the same about LDCs. If you heard a vocalist hammering a mic with plosives, you would probably stop and change something...

Two things you can do to give yourself some safety; get the tone happening with a foam windscreen on the mic, and always angle the mic so that it is not perfectly parallel to a very loud sound source. You don’t want the sound source to make the diaphragm have pronounced excursions that push it to the limits of the range of motion.
Old 25th October 2019
  #11
But one ft from the speaker and say not going over 100db should be fine right? That would be like a very loud voice, or drums etc?
Old 25th October 2019
  #12
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
U67 is my absolute favorite guitar amp mic, and not withstanding Klaus' warning, I have not had any issues recording amps. Also, you don't need to use super loud amps in the studio. Remember, Funk 49 is a Fender Champ, and the Kid Charlemagne solo is a Tweed Deluxe.

Put the mic about a foot off. Forget the 57. It's not only not necessary, but the phase issue with dissimilar distances is going to sound weird. I like adding some 3k, which brings out the thee texture nicely. Lows can be added or subtracted to taste. But this never fails to sounds almost exactly like the sound of the amp when you're standing in front of it.
If you don’t mind: Where do you Place the Mic in Relation to the cone of the speaker? Directly in line with it? Thanks!
Old 25th October 2019
  #13
Lives for gear
 
jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monaco View Post
If you don’t mind: Where do you Place the Mic in Relation to the cone of the speaker? Directly in line with it? Thanks!
Point it where the dust cap meets the diaphragm.
Old 25th October 2019
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
You can skip the preamp completely, and possibly turn the pad back off in doing so. I have found that true with a Fender Deluxe at medium high volume, maybe a foot out. Straight into the converter, no problem.
Or straight into an LA2A, especially since the OP likes the LA2A sound.

Or, if you do want to be able to crank the pre a bit, just use a simple inline pad, like Shure (and others) make.
Old 26th October 2019
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Experimented last night.

Everything sounds great.

U67 18 inches away, 12 inches, 6 and 1 inch from the grill. All beautiful sounds.

I must admit my favorite sound in solo is the 67 and 57 both close to the grill (about 1-2 inches away due to the shock mount of the 67). Blended together, this tone just sounds harmonically rich, forward, detailed and immediate.

Though practically, the U67 by itself about 12” away may be the best choice for both overall tone in a mix, while also protecting the mic.

Reading about John Leckie, he seems to have great success with the 67 and 57 both on the grill, though I also read an interview with Ken Scott who used the 67 1-2 feet away, and that was that.

So I’m going to stick with the 67 a foot away and experiment between 12-24 inches to see if there’s a sweet spot.
Old 26th October 2019
  #16
Lives for gear
 
syra's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
U67 is my absolute favorite guitar amp mic
Amen
Old 4 weeks ago
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Hamburg58's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
U67 is my absolute favorite guitar amp mic, and not withstanding Klaus' warning, I have not had any issues recording amps. Also, you don't need to use super loud amps in the studio. Remember, Funk 49 is a Fender Champ, and the Kid Charlemagne solo is a Tweed Deluxe.

Put the mic about a foot off. Forget the 57. It's not only not necessary, but the phase issue with dissimilar distances is going to sound weird. I like adding some 3k, which brings out the thee texture nicely. Lows can be added or subtracted to taste. But this never fails to sounds almost exactly like the sound of the amp when you're standing in front of it.
Yep ! Forget the 57 or any other mic for that matter. With the 67 you shouldn't need anything else. It sounds great.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump