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PSI A23/25 vs ATC SCM50/100
Old 24th October 2019
  #61
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cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatsNo View Post
Ok! thanks for the opinion, interesting for sure. I've heard the scm25's and they're very good aswell, obviously don't have the full range I'm looking for, but I'm guessing the scm50 and upwards have.
I'd say that the room might have played a bigger role than the speaker.. if you need more low frequencies content, then after the room, look for adding a sub.

I'm saying this because I'm not sure you'll feel a huge difference in the lowend going with the 50 (after the scm25...if we are speaking free standing..at least this is my experience).

I'm not saying there's none, I'm saying that the room might have played a big role in that perception, plus also maybe not being used to a "clean" (non purposely ported pushed/distorted) lowend.

Anyway Subwoofer Pro's, make a 12" sub which is designed with ATC's in mind and that is not outrageously expensive. Very easy to integrate.

I mixed a lot of pop/rock modern stuff and reggae as well on the scm25, never felt the need of a sub..(although my room was rather small and professionally treated/measured... I had BIG basstraps on the corners tuned on different frequencies, 4 in front and 2 in the rear corners..they were really big).

Soffit mounting might the way to go with the bigger ATC's.

I hope this helps,



Cheu
Old 24th October 2019
  #62
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatsNo View Post
Cool, my local dealer just got the a23's in, wondering if I should demo them. Thing is they don't have the a25's in, but I can get them for the same price. They can also give me the scm100's for 2000 EUR more..

I will be working in a small room though, and would prefer to monitor at 1-1.5 meter. PSI tells me miniumum for a23 is 1 meter, and minimum for a25 is 1.5, so that nudges me in the direction of the 23. The dealer tells me SCM100 can work that close too, but the size of them suggest me otherwise...

Have you by any chance heard the a17/21's in comparison to your a25?
I have had the A21's for a couple of years, so I am very familiar with the PSI sound. The A25 is in another league. From what I can hear in a recent Youtube video about the A23 the new midrange sounds different (more open) in comparison with the A25.

See the video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQxF6zixhV0
Old 24th October 2019
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skriabin View Post
I have had the A21's for a couple of years, so I am very familiar with the PSI sound. The A25 is in another league. From what I can hear in a recent Youtube video about the A23 the new midrange sounds different (more open) in comparison with the A25.

See the video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQxF6zixhV0
wow another league vid is in chinese.. kinda hard to guess what he says haha
Old 24th October 2019
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skriabin View Post
I have had the A21's for a couple of years, so I am very familiar with the PSI sound. The A25 is in another league. From what I can hear in a recent Youtube video about the A23 the new midrange sounds different (more open) in comparison with the A25.

See the video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQxF6zixhV0
Is there a video of ATC SCM300s on YouTube, I'd love to hear what they sound like
Old 24th October 2019
  #65
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PaulMac's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatsNo View Post
Ok! thanks for the opinion, interesting for sure. I've heard the scm25's and they're very good aswell, obviously don't have the full range I'm looking for, but I'm guessing the scm50 and upwards have.

I get your point of view regarding what you need a speaker for, but I personally want that excitement when I produce, it should be transparent and realistic, but also exciting I get a feeling you're saying PSI's are more fun and ATC's are more translating?
Maybe go for the PSI then. I can't recommend travelling however far you have to to try them though. If I didn't I'd have got a set of Barefoots or ATC 45s, both of which I ended up hating! It took me 2 11 hour round trips to sit in a demo room for a few hours at a time and make up my mind!

The one thing the ATCs do offer is a very clear insight into the mids. I find that really exciting as the emotion of a song is almost always in the mids. If I were to mix on PSIs or Barefoots I know for certain my mixes would lack top end excitement and probably some bottom excitement as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
my point was that he already owns a 3way speaker, getting the same brand 3way speaker is nonsense to me, another brand 3 way speaker than means he might not be happy with what he has, therefore might be better to sell what he has (or fixing the room accordingly) and getting what he NEEDS.

for a second pair of speakers I'd choose something that the first/main pair can't do so well..

I hope this helps understanding my post,



Cheu
Totally.

Although I'd certainly go with ATC 100s and 25s as my main two speakers. If he really trusts the PSI "thing" then he could definitely get two pairs of their speakers that offer different representations of the "thing". In my opinion the ATC "thing" is very trustable though, if he's looking for accuracy.
Old 25th October 2019
  #66
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Miles Flint's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatsNo View Post
I get a feeling you're saying PSI's are more fun and ATC's are more translating?
I've tested all the PSIs, except the newer A23 and ended up with the A25-225 system. Some say the PSI are analytical, and not fun to listen to because they immediately show you what's wrong, too flat, etc. But on the other side, since I have them, I really like to listen to records again that I didn't listen to in years or decades.

The PSI reveal a lot, what other speakers don't show - this is and can be fun, too
Old 26th October 2019
  #67
Look at the difference in the construction of the mids between the ATC SCM50ASL Pro and the new PSI A23-M monitors:
Attached Thumbnails
PSI A23/25 vs ATC SCM50/100-psi-a23-m-mid-driver.jpg   PSI A23/25 vs ATC SCM50/100-7414_foto6_product_org.jpg   PSI A23/25 vs ATC SCM50/100-atc2.jpg  
Old 26th October 2019
  #68
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For the PSI A23-M,
Quote:
Dispersion (P.N. 4 - 16 kHz) at -6 dB: 40° x 20° (H x V)
Is their another way to interpret this than a very, very small window?
This is much smaller than even surround channels used for Dolby systems in theaters.
Old 26th October 2019
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skriabin View Post
Look at the difference in the construction of the mids between the ATC SCM50ASL Pro and the new PSI A23-M monitors:
To be fair, PSI are using NIB magnets while ATC are using ferrite. So it is possible for NIB magnets to be much smaller and arrive at the same magnetic flux. Plus the PSI mid is 56 mm whereas the ATC is 75 mm. And with less weight, less "construction" is needed.

(though that baffle front pictured still raises questions)
Old 26th October 2019
  #70
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
For the PSI A23-M,

Is their another way to interpret this than a very, very small window?
This is much smaller than even surround channels used for Dolby systems in theaters.
Dispersion for the ATC SCM50ASL Pro is as follows:

Horizontal Dispersion: ±80°, Coherent
Vertical Dispersion: ±10°, Coherent

Dispersion for the PSI A25-M is as follows:

Dispersion (P.N. 4 - 16 kHz) at -6 dB: 90° x 80° (H x V)
Old 26th October 2019
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skriabin View Post
Dispersion for the ATC SCM50ASL Pro is as follows:

Horizontal Dispersion: ±80°, Coherent
Vertical Dispersion: ±10°, Coherent

Dispersion for the PSI A25-M is as follows:

Dispersion (P.N. 4 - 16 kHz) at -6 dB: 90° x 80° (H x V)
Yes, that "±" makes a huge difference.
And I copy/pasted their A23-M numbers as being that limited.

The A25-M numbers could be right as stated (those match many speakers meant for cinema coverage) or they too could be missing a "±".
But even with a ±, the A23-M coverage is very small.
Old 26th October 2019
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatsNo View Post
Cool, my local dealer just got the a23's in, wondering if I should demo them. Thing is they don't have the a25's in, but I can get them for the same price. They can also give me the scm100's for 2000 EUR more..

I will be working in a small room though, and would prefer to monitor at 1-1.5 meter. PSI tells me miniumum for a23 is 1 meter, and minimum for a25 is 1.5, so that nudges me in the direction of the 23. The dealer tells me SCM100 can work that close too, but the size of them suggest me otherwise...

Have you by any chance heard the a17/21's in comparison to your a25?
Could you tell me where your local dealer is based? You can PM me
Old 27th October 2019
  #73
The first review of the new PSI Audio A23-M is in!!

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/psi-audio-a23-m
Old 4 weeks ago
  #74
Here for the gear
I just got the new PSI Audio A23 M and it's another world of transparency. The new medium woofer is incredible. The best speakers I have heard so far !
Fantastic !!!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #75
Quote:
Originally Posted by relief View Post
I just got the new PSI Audio A23 M and it's another world of transparency. The new medium woofer is incredible. The best speakers I have heard so far !
Fantastic !!!
man this doesn't help!! :') Now I want it even more.

Have you heard a17/21 or atc for comparison?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #76
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used Genelec for a long time , now use atc scm50s , different league.
Regarding the bass, beautifully clear and deep, but the one thing I found was changing the position just a few cm made a world of difference
I recently tried the ATC 100 and 150s , love the active versions , for me the 100 is the perfect combination the small increase in bass over the 50 is incredible , the 150 and 300 seemed a little overpowering
Old 3 weeks ago
  #77
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve02 View Post
used Genelec for a long time , now use atc scm50s , different league.
Regarding the bass, beautifully clear and deep, but the one thing I found was changing the position just a few cm made a world of difference
I recently tried the ATC 100 and 150s , love the active versions , for me the 100 is the perfect combination the small increase in bass over the 50 is incredible , the 150 and 300 seemed a little overpowering


Cool! Do you have a feeling of how deep you find the 50's useful?
Like what's the bottom key you can still hear clearly.

I'll try to demo scm50/100asl soon aswell
Old 3 weeks ago
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatsNo View Post
Cool! Do you have a feeling of how deep you find the 50's useful?
Like what's the bottom key you can still hear clearly.

I'll try to demo scm50/100asl soon aswell
I find I get true full range , or as close as my old ears can get, G/ A, I thought I was missing the absolute bottom but moving the speakers just a few cm back filled in the gaps. you get true bass, not true boom
I didn`t find the 100asl different in principal just seem to have a little more warmth and body, more of a good thing if you know what I mean
Old 1 week ago
  #79
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Overdrive's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skriabin View Post
Did someone already test the new PSI A23-M monitors?
Just ordered a pair of A23. They should be here soon to test.
I already have A21 and BF01, in the past months I had tested Dutch&Dutch (didnt like) Kii3 (liked a lot) and MM27Gen2 (again liked a lot - a leading option).
I might post a review of this soon.
Old 1 week ago
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMac View Post

If I were to mix on PSIs or Barefoots I know for certain my mixes would lack top end excitement and probably some bottom excitement as well.

Respectfully, that's on you mate. Both PSI and ATC are world class. The rest is on you.
Old 1 week ago
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdrive View Post
Just ordered a pair of A23. They should be here soon to test.
I already have A21 and BF01, in the past months I had tested Dutch&Dutch (didnt like) Kii3 (liked a lot) and MM27Gen2 (again liked a lot - a leading option).
I might post a review of this soon.
Can't wait for your review!
Old 1 week ago
  #82
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf View Post
Respectfully, that's on you mate. Both PSI and ATC are world class. The rest is on you.
indeed, also if he already knows his mix will lack high end, why not take that knowledge into consideration and improve the way you mix the high end
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