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My next set of studio monitors...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Passive speakers are better made. Look at the box and a very high end power amp. It won't fit, will it? Look at the Raidho TD1.2's. I doubt you will find better.
Jim, you are normally saying all kinds of smart stuff, this comment doesn't work. A collection of copper coils and inductors does not = better made. IN the case of ATC and a number of factories, its not even determined if the speaker is active or passive until the very end of production where two different packages are fitted.

Brad
Old 3 weeks ago
  #32
Nearly all the very high end speakers made today are passive, some with an active sub amp but the mids and tweeters are run passive. Some of these speakers cost more than your house or a new Ferrari. Be assured they use materials that are far better than any "studio monitors" made for mixing.

These speakers tend to be found in the higher end mastering rooms rather than in a typical recording studio where the budgets are reserved for other gear.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #33
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Jim
Many of the "very high end" speakers in consumer are not driven by science, they are driven by sales. Most are very expensive cabinets using off the shelf OEM drivers but marketed very effectively. Very few have their own driver designs and even fewer manufacture their own proprietary drivers. A skilled experienced transducer engineer dedicated to a small high end consumer company has become quite rare unless they happen to own it. Very few brands in super high end consumer make everything, their drivers, electronics (crossovers + amps) and cabinets. KEF was a rare example of an engineering driven company in consumer. The founding owner operator sold it to the Chinese. B+W sold to an investment banker. JBL is a public company driven by quarterly returns making almost everything now in India instead of Northridge.

Brad
Old 3 weeks ago
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Nearly all the very high end speakers made today are passive, some with an active sub amp but the mids and tweeters are run passive. Some of these speakers cost more than your house or a new Ferrari. Be assured they use materials that are far better than any "studio monitors" made for mixing.

These speakers tend to be found in the higher end mastering rooms rather than in a typical recording studio where the budgets are reserved for other gear.
I've seen active ATC's in Sterling and active PMC's in Metropolis,
Are those some of the higher end mastering rooms?

Can you give examples of the very high end speakers or rooms you are talking about?

Do 'Better Materials' being used in passive crossovers compensate for the advantages provided by active crossovers and separate amps?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #35
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smallstonefan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
...
If they have the speakers you currently use, start with those and listen to your material a lot to get comfortable with the room: what it is doing and how it sounds the same/different from your home setup.
...
Pentagon, this has to be one of the most thoughtful and detailed responses I've received to a question here at gearslutz! I sincerely thank you for this - I will take all of this to heart and use it to craft a plan to make the most of every minute of my trip to LA.

I am so excited - I have to believe this studio update will be very noticeable, and I love those evolutionary jumps in this amazing hobby!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #36
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cheu78's Avatar
Pentagon is, as always, right..! +1

Make sure you listen to ATC scm20, and scm25..
I'm with africantigercow.. ATC makes stunning sounding stuff.



Cheu
Old 3 weeks ago
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by africantigercow View Post
I've seen active ATC's in Sterling and active PMC's in Metropolis,
Are those some of the higher end mastering rooms?

Can you give examples of the very high end speakers or rooms you are talking about?

Do 'Better Materials' being used in passive crossovers compensate for the advantages provided by active crossovers and separate amps?
Wilson Audio and Harbeth make their own drivers, crossovers, etc. Some make their own capacitors and coils in house. There are many examples of these very high end speakers but most in pro audio have never heard them. Martin Logan makes very good ESL speakers. Raidho makes exotic drivers using diamond dust in the midrange cones. Several use Air Motion Transformer tweeter designs. Focal also makes 'consumer" speakers made better than their studio monitors. They cost thousands more $ too.

An active speaker uses a reduced size power amp, many are class D, not class A or A/B. They also use opamps and crappy electrolytic caps in their active crossovers. I consider many of those circuits to be music filters. Yes, people pay me to rebuild/fix that stuff. A $30 film cap will exceed the performance of any active opamp or transistor for THD and noise.

All audio gear is driven by sales. I don't know any outfit doing it for free.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Wilson Audio and Harbeth make their own drivers, crossovers, etc. Some make their own capacitors and coils in house. There are many examples of these very high end speakers but most in pro audio have never heard them. Martin Logan makes very good ESL speakers. Raidho makes exotic drivers using diamond dust in the midrange cones. Several use Air Motion Transformer tweeter designs. Focal also makes 'consumer" speakers made better than their studio monitors. They cost thousands more $ too.

An active speaker uses a reduced size power amp, many are class D, not class A or A/B. They also use opamps and crappy electrolytic caps in their active crossovers. I consider many of those circuits to be music filters. Yes, people pay me to rebuild/fix that stuff. A $30 film cap will exceed the performance of any active opamp or transistor for THD and noise.

All audio gear is driven by sales. I don't know any outfit doing it for free.
I’m struggling to follow. Are you saying that active atc and pmc models use ‘reduced size amplifiers’ with ‘crappy electrolytic caps in their active crossovers’?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #39
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spambot_2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
An active speaker uses a reduced size power amp, many are class D, not class A or A/B. They also use opamps and crappy electrolytic caps in their active crossovers.
These generalizations may have been somewhat accurate in the early '80s but they're simply inaccurate to this day, same with the notion that class D amps and active speakers are synonymous with low quality - active speakers designs actually are simply better than passive designs as far as that is concerned.
If you have any doubt about this, simply listen to a pair of current production big ATC speakers, and then inspect one.

As far as the comment about "a lot of very high end speakers [being] driven by sales instead of science", I suspect Brad meant something along the lines of, many high end speakers, the ones branded "hi-fi speakers" or "audiophile speakers" in particular, mainly sell not because they are particularly accurate at reproducing whatever material or any other technical/scientific merit, but because they are marketed very effectively to a particular audience who cares about trivial specs (while ignoring some important specs usually not published together with the frequency response, xover frequency...) and exotic materials (like diamond dust in the mid range woofers).
Old 9 hours ago
  #40
Gear Nut
 
smallstonefan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Don't bring CDs. Bring your music on USB sticks or have Spotify playlists. Nowadays, the systems hooked up to the speakers have no CD player but all these locations have Spotify running.
I just re-read this again and I am creating my worksheets - I get on the plane tomorrow!

thanks again!
Old 4 hours ago
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spambot_2 View Post
<SNIP>

As far as the comment about "a lot of very high end speakers [being] driven by sales instead of science", I suspect Brad meant something along the lines of, many high end speakers, the ones branded "hi-fi speakers" or "audiophile speakers" in particular, mainly sell not because they are particularly accurate at reproducing whatever material or any other technical/scientific merit, but because they are marketed very effectively to a particular audience who cares about trivial specs (while ignoring some important specs usually not published together with the frequency response, xover frequency...) and exotic materials (like diamond dust in the mid range woofers).

That's it. When I walk the halls of a high end consumer show like AXPONA or RMAF, there'a a lot of very expensive speakers driven by very expensive electronics that sound NOTHING like the recording. I know this is true because I am often treated to the original recording in the room by the engineer and his pair of ATC's. In hi fi consumer, most people want something that passes the "wife approval factor" and square black boxes on big black iron stands aren't it!

Brad
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