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$14K Studio Monitor Budget
Old 3rd June 2019
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
The biggest misconception is that sub might do more harm than good. Correctly integrated sub will always improve performance. I am using two 7360 subs and together with 8351 they form amazing system.
So then, i may as well keep my existing setup if that's the case. I was initially under the impression an all in one system would fair better than a separate sub woofer.

Those 7360 Subs are huge! Way too big for my space and they look like they can strip the paint off the walls!

In a couple weeks i will audition some barefoot mm27,26,45's and maybe the footprint's and see what they are like and if it's an upgrade to what i already own.

Disregard the possibilities that there could be low end issues in my room,but from your experience, is the stereo image and detail on the barefoot's on par with the 8351?
Old 3rd June 2019
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I use the Aeon 2's here with a custom 15" dual voice coil subwoofer. 25~40k hz response. Audio design legend Sandy Gross makes amazing stuff for the money.
www.goldenear.com
I also own the Aeon's and the SUB 10 and am frankly quite happy, although i know there are pricier high end monitor's that offer fancy room correction capabilities and have built in dual sub's.

Have you heard the other monitor's mentioned in this thread? Would be interesting to know what you think about higher priced or all in one solutions compared to the Aeon 2's.

Edit: Fwiw i thought the KH310a were on the same playing field. But again i didn't audition in my own room, but that was my impression.
Old 3rd June 2019
  #33
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Solidtrax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsixtysix View Post
Hi apologies up front as i don't mean to thread Hijack, but i was about to post a similar topic, also being from AU with the inability to demo in my studio and seeing as our room size( 4.3m x 3.5m) and budget also align, i thought i would add to this discussion as i have been seriously considering Barefoot MM27 and possibly even stretching the budget to 26's.

I'm not sure what you currently have, but i am coming from a pair APS Aeon 2's with matching SUB 10 and looking for a definite upgrade. I would prefer an all in one, full range (or at least down to 30hz) monitoring solution, so i can fill the room and feel the bass when needed.

The genelec 8351 seem interesting, but am worried that the bass might be a little lean and i prefer not to add a sub, if i can avoid it.

A few possible recommendations i am thinking about that you may not have considered already:

Genelec 8351 or 8260
Barefoot MM27 or MM26
PSI 21M or A25M
ATC SCM25 or 45(worried about needed a sub here again)
Neumann KH310 (same as above)
Amphion Two 18

Thanks
In your room you will not need a sub with the 8351, or at least most people don’t. Same with the A25M and KH310.

I experienced the 8351 in a 10m x6m room and it could fill the room with a surprisingly loud, deep and controlled low end.

From your list, the Amphion and A21M have the least amount of low end authority, but for both it’s fast and articulate though.
Old 3rd June 2019
  #34
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Jantex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsixtysix View Post
So then, i may as well keep my existing setup if that's the case. I was initially under the impression an all in one system would fair better than a separate sub woofer.

Those 7360 Subs are huge! Way too big for my space and they look like they can strip the paint off the walls!

In a couple weeks i will audition some barefoot mm27,26,45's and maybe the footprint's and see what they are like and if it's an upgrade to what i already own.

Disregard the possibilities that there could be low end issues in my room,but from your experience, is the stereo image and detail on the barefoot's on par with the 8351?
As mentioned, subs are far from mandatory, but will help improvment of LF performance in kess optimal rooms due to the freedom of their positioning. So no, all in one systems are not superior. And imaging and midrange clarity is just the area where barefoots are the weakest IMHO. They actually sound slightly phasey.
Old 3rd June 2019
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidtrax View Post
In your room you will not need a sub with the 8351, or at least most people don’t. Same with the A25M and KH310.

I experienced the 8351 in a 10m x6m room and it could fill the room with a surprisingly loud, deep and controlled low end.

From your list, the Amphion and A21M have the least amount of low end authority, but for both it’s fast and articulate though.
Great! that's the info i wanted to hear. Ordering a pair now.
Old 3rd June 2019
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
As mentioned, subs are far from mandatory, but will help improvment of LF performance in kess optimal rooms due to the freedom of their positioning. So no, all in one systems are not superior. And imaging and midrange clarity is just the area where barefoots are the weakest IMHO. They actually sound slightly phasey.
Yeah, that is good to hear that the 8351's have better imaging. Make's it a lot easier to make a decision now.

Thanks you for all your help
Old 4th June 2019
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
The biggest misconception is that sub might do more harm than good. Correctly integrated sub will always improve performance. I am using two 7360 subs and together with 8351 they form amazing system.

Ahh apologies, I Googled 7370 and saw the dimensions and had a panic attack...I will also be buying the 7360's. I figured i will probably miss a sub.


Edit: jantex could you give me some pointers as to how to integrate the subs? What should the cutoff be ? Or is this app handled by Glm?

Last edited by Lsixtysix; 4th June 2019 at 01:08 AM..
Old 4th June 2019
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsixtysix View Post
I also own the Aeon's and the SUB 10 and am frankly quite happy, although i know there are pricier high end monitor's that offer fancy room correction capabilities and have built in dual sub's.

Have you heard the other monitor's mentioned in this thread? Would be interesting to know what you think about higher priced or all in one solutions compared to the Aeon 2's.

Edit: Fwiw i thought the KH310a were on the same playing field. But again i didn't audition in my own room, but that was my impression.
I don't get much chance to audition studio monitors here in North San Diego County unless someone brings some by. Most of the exotics currently favored here I have not heard as they are rare in these parts.

Usually I check out the high end audio stores with $25,000+ speakers and such. I do mod a lot of power amps for Amphion users, they seem to like them but those I have not heard here yet either.

My Aeon 2's have also been modified with exotic, expensive crossover capacitors. I found every speaker I've ever heard benefitted from improved crossover components. Even my Jeep Wrangler JKU is fitted with all AMT tweeters and exotic crossover capacitors. Dome tweeters don't really cut it for me anymore, too spitty and distorted.

I'd be happy to replace my Golden Ears with Raidho D-5's at $5500 if anyone can cut me a really good deal.
Old 5th June 2019
  #39
I received my 8351's and 7360a sub yesterday, spent a few hours setting them up in my room.

The GLM calibration couldn't be easier, such a good tool and it made quite the difference integrating the sub woofer in. Compared to my Aeon's and sub, the genelecs integrate way more seamlessly. The stereo image is nothing short of excellent. I can definitely see how these would improve my productivity and judgement calls.

I'm really satisfied with the upgrade, thanks for all the help everyone
Old 12th June 2019
  #40
mrc
Lives for gear
I would pick the kii three over the barefoots, but it might just be my taste. Also, having a cardioid partern will help with your small room. Do you have any treatment other than porous broadband absorbers?
Old 12th June 2019
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
As mentioned, subs are far from mandatory, but will help improvment of LF performance in kess optimal rooms due to the freedom of their positioning. So no, all in one systems are not superior. And imaging and midrange clarity is just the area where barefoots are the weakest IMHO. They actually sound slightly phasey.
If i remember correctly, the owner of Barefoot has stated in the past on this forum that his speakers are DSP corrected and moreover, time aligned.

How can a speaker like that sound phasey? Maybe bad placement/lots of reflections?
Old 12th June 2019
  #42
Talking about DSP monitors, have you considered Eve-Audios SC408 or the 3010/12 ?
Many studios in Berlin are using them and I´m always impressed how overwhelming they sound in a proper studio room.

Have a good one!
Old 12th June 2019
  #43
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Jantex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by neph View Post
If i remember correctly, the owner of Barefoot has stated in the past on this forum that his speakers are DSP corrected and moreover, time aligned.

How can a speaker like that sound phasey? Maybe bad placement/lots of reflections?
Subs are time aligned, of course. Problem is their directivity and I don't know what is going on with tweeter and midrange alignment. It is easy to time align subs due to the long wavelength of the 100Hz and below, it is more difficult around midrange/tweeter crossover.

They will sound accurate only in a very narrow spot, especially in vertical direction. You will move just an inch and the sound will change dramatically. As many users have also reported, Barefoots don't sound great at larger distances, only at very short nearfield distances...this is just because of directivity of their dispersion. While there are aspects I love about them (tight and fast bass and transient response), on the other hand spectral balance and imaging are not one of their strenghts.
Old 12th June 2019
  #44
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nomatic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillSqueak View Post
Hey man! I'm going to be in Sydney starting September, currently living in the US for University. I would love to swing through and spend a little bit of time with the ATC's, so perhaps I could contact you once I'm in Australia and we could arrange a time that wouldn't interfere with your work?

I'm really leaning towards D&D 8C's now, the DSP features seem amazing, but then again, I haven't heard much from anyone about them when compared to Barefoots or ATC's. I will be demoing some Barefoot MM27's over the summer when I'm in the UK, so I'll have a chance to hear those, and also the Kii Threes, so then it would just be the ATC's left to hear.

Wilson
I came from both the Barefoots and ATC 50s and much prefer the 8C..
translation and speed of work is the best of my 25 years...

The only system that wins for me is a Northward room with Soffit ATCs.
Old 13th June 2019
  #45
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillSqueak View Post
Hey I'm building a studio, and I'm wondering what monitors you guys would suggest?

I'm working with a USD$14K budget (~$20K AUD). Currently I've been thinking of getting the ATC SCM45A with a pair of Barefoot Footprint 01's, but I've also been thinking about the Barefoot MM27s. If the improvement would be huge, I'd be able to increase the budget to 15 or 16 thousand as well.

Was wondering what you guys thought of those options and any other suggestions? Being in Australia, it's quite hard to get a hold of demo products so I'm probably just going to have to take a leap of faith and buy them without having heard them.

My main needs/wants are great translation, and nice low end. I'll also be working in a pretty small control room, around 4m x 3.6m. Also primarily working on Hip Hop.

Wilson
My room is slightly larger than yours (4x5 meters). I had the opportunity to A/B the MM27s (MK1) with two Barefoot subs (can't remember the model) against Genelecs 8351 with one 7370 sub. I've always been a Genelec guy so I was biased before hand but was pleasantly surprised by the Barefoots, they held up really well against the 8351s. I found them to be a bit harsh around 2-3K on high volume but other than that, they were really great.

With that said, the Genelecs completely blew me away. The high end on those are completely insane. It's cliché, but I noticed things I've never heard before on songs I've listened to thousand of times. The GLM kit helps too and got rid of a 100hz problem in my room. It couldn't fix my dip at 60 hz though. Having the opportunity to tweak the calibration curve also helps, I found them just a little bit too prominent above 10K so I tweaked that and also added some low mids as I felt the calibration scooped them out a bit too much.

I would suggest you get in touch with both companies and see if testing is possible. I called Genelec and explained my situation, my room size etc and they were really helpful and sent me the pair for testing. Spending that muc money without testing isn't really something I would recommend...easy for me to say though, as I live in Europe.

For what it's worth, I've heard several people close to me complain about Barefoots breaking down. I have no first hand experience with this however so I can't swear on it. Could be worth taking into consideration if you're in a remote area, however.

Hope I could be of any help, good luck!

Edit: Saw you already orded the Genelecs. Good on ya!
Old 14th June 2019
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMeadow View Post
My room is slightly larger than yours (4x5 meters). I had the opportunity to A/B the MM27s (MK1) with two Barefoot subs (can't remember the model) against Genelecs 8351 with one 7370 sub. I've always been a Genelec guy so I was biased before hand but was pleasantly surprised by the Barefoots, they held up really well against the 8351s. I found them to be a bit harsh around 2-3K on high volume but other than that, they were really great.

With that said, the Genelecs completely blew me away. The high end on those are completely insane. It's cliché, but I noticed things I've never heard before on songs I've listened to thousand of times. The GLM kit helps too and got rid of a 100hz problem in my room. It couldn't fix my dip at 60 hz though. Having the opportunity to tweak the calibration curve also helps, I found them just a little bit too prominent above 10K so I tweaked that and also added some low mids as I felt the calibration scooped them out a bit too much.

I would suggest you get in touch with both companies and see if testing is possible. I called Genelec and explained my situation, my room size etc and they were really helpful and sent me the pair for testing. Spending that muc money without testing isn't really something I would recommend...easy for me to say though, as I live in Europe.

For what it's worth, I've heard several people close to me complain about Barefoots breaking down. I have no first hand experience with this however so I can't swear on it. Could be worth taking into consideration if you're in a remote area, however.

Hope I could be of any help, good luck!

Edit: Saw you already orded the Genelecs. Good on ya!
That was me who ordered the Gen's, i'm a dirty rotten thread hijacker!
Btw they are the best monitors i have ever owned. I am think the 7360a sub is a perfect match for them too. Unfortunately i didn't have the space for the larger 7370, but hopefully the only difference was a little SPL.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #47
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomatic View Post
I came from both the Barefoots and ATC 50s and much prefer the 8C..
translation and speed of work is the best of my 25 years...

The only system that wins for me is a Northward room with Soffit ATCs.
The room I’m in isn’t a Northward room, but it is properly designed around the ATCs.
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