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Sony c100, the Neumann u87 killer?
Old 26th May 2019
  #31
We're actually agreeing in some way. Skill and experience gets the furthest.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #32
Here for the gear
 

I don’t think the C100 is a U87ai killer. They are 2 different microphones and have their own place.

But... I do think the C100 has potential to take the U87ai’s place in a specific market for the specific person looking to buy the ol “cleanest fet mic” deal when it gains more popularity which could take a decade or so.

I’m getting my C100 in the mail today as long as the ups guy shows up.

From the audio samples I’ve seen it seems like it’s definitley just taste. The Neumann U87ai has a sort of flavor or coloration to it that is signature for many hit records over the past 40 years or so. This gives it a seniority factor and a hall of fame esque status.

However I am seeing this trend in the genre I work in of vocalists saying “oh I want to use a U87ai so bad” or “you gotta get a U87ai” with little knowledge of any other audio equiptment at all.

Where currently the Sony 800g seems to be taking the spot of being the modern microphone you’ll see credited in like 80% or so of all hit records made today, in country, rock, rap, and pop music. And much less people who don’t look into gear know anything about it and it’s been out for 20+ years now.

This sonic signature is just not there for the U87ai (without processing) and is very present in the Sony C100 which has only been out for a year or so. I find it to be very transparent where the U87ai has this specific thing goin on.

From what I hear the 800g and the C100 are microphones one has to sort of learn and have more in common than not.

It was a bit of a gamble, the ol faithful U87 or the brand new wierd mic with 2 capsules. But we will see how it goes.

I’ve seen that the Avalon 737 is not the optimal match for the C100 which sort of eliminates the ease of that combination as seen paired with the u87.

But the C100 does well with a 1073 style preamp and a nice tube compressor which I have.

I had to go with the C100 because based on the audio samples I’ve heard and my experience with the U87ai and my love for the 800g which I can’t afford to buy or keep up to spec at the moment with mic stands falling over and so forth.

I’ll post an update after I mess around with the C100 tomorrow with the 1073 into the apallo.

I’d love to hear how it sounds paired with the 1073 into the tube tech cl1b if anyone has samples.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerwoots View Post
Am I just hyping up my future purchase or is this a decent observation of the near future?
yes.

also the title of this thread ..lol..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themiracle View Post
yes.

also the title of this thread ..lol..
Haha. True
Old 4 weeks ago
  #35
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So I recieved the C100 the other day and right when I hooked it up I noticed that the C100 and the U87ai could be easily interchangeable in any scenario and sound real similar, in my opinion.

There is a slightly different sound signature between them but they can sound exactly the same from around 5khz and down with a verry small eq attenuation (on the U87ai that is) in the 2khz region and around 409hz.

But the differences really show above that 5khz and up region which is essential. The C100 just has much more clarity and dare I say smoothness here and just handles it more accurate and full when than the U87ai.the U87ai also sounds slightly more loose to me but not darker, more blue dare I say. The C100 is more transparent and really wowed me. I haven’t heard a fet mic sound like this in my life, it almost sounds like the Sony 800g without the tube.

There is the client factor. Most clients who never heard of the C100 will say, “why didn’t you get a U87ai”. The U87ai has this 40 some years of prestige and brand recognition thing that the Sony C100 just hasn’t had the time to achieve yet. This really makes the Sony C100 a sleeper in many ways. The sony can do what the U87ai does and can do things the U87ai cannot. But the U87ai has prestige.

I’m going to make the biker girl analogy here. But change it to the manga fan girl since the Sony is Japanese... probobly not pc

In my opinion the Neumann U87ai is like the prom queen and the C100 is the nerdy manga fan girl. As girlfriend they can do the same things for you emotionally. But the prom queen is pretty and popular and the nerdy manga fan girl is not as popular. However the prom queen can be a little bitchy a little old fashioned with her chivalry expectations, and more expensive to go on a date with, wile the nerdy manga fan girl is a bit sweeter, a modern woman and splits the bill.

Don’t want to offend anyone with the analogy lol, reminds me of something my uncle would say. Also depends on what Highschool y’all went to but you get the analogy.

I think in a few years the Sony C100 will change the way people make music. It just makes how easy it is to use. I almost compared it to the hifi fet version of the shure sm7b. It’s so easy to use and easy to mix and not verry costly. It just sounds much more high res than the sm7b. It’s more like the U87ai than the sm7b to be honest but I hope you see what I’m sayin.

Last edited by tigerwoots; 4 weeks ago at 09:34 PM.. Reason: Accuracy
Old 4 weeks ago
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerwoots View Post
So I recieved the C100 the other day and right when I hooked it up I noticed that the C100 and the U87ai could be easily interchangeable in any scenario and sound real similar, in my opinion.

There is a slightly different sound signature between them but they can sound exactly the same from around 5khz and down with a verry small eq attenuation (on the U87ai that is) in the 2khz region and around 409hz.

But the differences really show above that 5khz and up region which is essential. The C100 just has much more clarity and dare I say smoothness here and just handles it more accurate and full when than the U87ai.the U87ai also sounds slightly more loose to me but not darker, more blue dare I say. The C100 is more transparent and really wowed me. I haven’t heard a fet mic sound like this in my life, it almost sounds like the Sony 800g without the tube.

There is the client factor. Most clients who never heard of the C100 will say, “why didn’t you get a U87ai”. The U87ai has this 40 some years of prestige and brand recognition thing that the Sony C100 just hasn’t had the time to achieve yet. This really makes the Sony C100 a sleeper in many ways. The sony can do what the U87ai does and can do things the U87ai cannot. But the U87ai has prestige.

I’m going to make the biker girl analogy here. But change it to the manga fan girl since the Sony is Japanese... probobly not pc

In my opinion the Neumann U87ai is like the prom queen and the C100 is the nerdy manga fan girl. As girlfriend they can do the same things for you emotionally. But the prom queen is pretty and popular and the nerdy manga fan girl is not as popular. However the prom queen can be a little bitchy a little old fashioned with her chivalry expectations, and more expensive to go on a date with, wile the nerdy manga fan girl is a bit sweeter, a modern woman and splits the bill.

Don’t want to offend anyone with the analogy lol, reminds me of something my uncle would say. Also depends on what Highschool y’all went to but you get the analogy.

I think in a few years the Sony C100 will change the way people make music. It just makes how easy it is to use. I almost compared it to the hifi fet version of the shure sm7b. It’s so easy to use and easy to mix and not verry costly. It just sounds much more high res than the sm7b. It’s more like the U87ai than the sm7b to be honest but I hope you see what I’m sayin.
WoW! Genius....
Old 4 weeks ago
  #37
*unsubscribe*
Old 4 weeks ago
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
WoW! Genius....

Your audio samples on the other post helped me a lot with my decision
Old 4 weeks ago
  #39
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
WoW! Genius....
I just don’t see how the avalon 737 would sound bad on the c100. I guess I’ll have to try it out myself. Maybe in sequence with the 1073 it will be fine
Old 4 weeks ago
  #40
Attached Thumbnails
Sony c100, the Neumann u87 killer?-286-2865975_trollface-troll-face-meme.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerwoots View Post
Your audio samples on the other post helped me a lot with my decision
Thank you. I'm glad it helped.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerwoots View Post
I just don’t see how the avalon 737 would sound bad on the c100. I guess I’ll have to try it out myself. Maybe in sequence with the 1073 it will be fine
Me neither. The chain of the millennium was the C800G & the 737 and Hip Hop sounded great. That's what we used with Slick Rick at Electric Lady.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
Me neither. The chain of the millennium was the C800G & the 737 and Hip Hop sounded great. That's what we used with Slick Rick at Electric Lady.
That’s awesome by the way.

So it’s a no chance kind of thing? Just not a good pair in your opinion? I want it to work so bad it seems perfect. And the C100 seems to thrive with a tube pre...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #44
Here for the gear
 

I’m renting a 737 on Tuesday from the local guitar center, I just can’t believe it to be entirely true but I haven’t tried it yet so
Old 4 weeks ago
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerwoots View Post
I’m renting a 737 on Tuesday from the local guitar center, I just can’t believe it to be entirely true but I haven’t tried it yet so
Sorry I think you've misunderstood me. What is it that you mean about the 737?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #46
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
Sorry I think you've misunderstood me. What is it that you mean about the 737?
I was wondering about your opinion on the avalon 737 with the Sony c100, I remember a few people saying they weren’t impressed and I think I can remember you posting about this combo. I also think it would help others to have more opinions with this combo.

Just wanted to know a little more about your opinion on the C100>>avalon 737 interaction. I’ve heard it can sound not so great with the manley ref c too.

The C100 has been working fine on other voices I’ve engineered this week. Over all my clients are impressed. It’s a lot harder to distort it than other mics I find.

I didn’t end up renting the 737 because I figured I’d just end up getting the tube tech cl1b eventually anyways. And that sounds nice from the samples I’ve heard with the 1073. Also a good pair with the U87ai and just the nicest tube compressor I’ve used all around in my opinion.It will take more time to save up but worth it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #47
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerwoots View Post
I was wondering about your opinion on the avalon 737 with the Sony c100, I remember a few people saying they weren’t impressed and I think I can remember you posting about this combo. I also think it would help others to have more opinions with this combo.

Just wanted to know a little more about your opinion on the C100>>avalon 737 interaction. I’ve heard it can sound not so great with the manley ref c too.

The C100 has been working fine on other voices I’ve engineered this week. Over all my clients are impressed. It’s a lot harder to distort it than other mics I find.

I didn’t end up renting the 737 because I figured I’d just end up getting the tube tech cl1b eventually anyways. And that sounds nice from the samples I’ve heard with the 1073. Also a good pair with the U87ai and just the nicest tube compressor I’ve used all around in my opinion.It will take more time to save up but worth it.
the Tubetech MP1 sounded the best when I was testing the C100 with pre amps.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #48
Lives for gear
 

Seems like there’s always a new U87 killer coming out, but over the years the 87 has continued to be the workhorse vocal mic to beat. The magic with the 87 is how well it works in the context of the mix, and across so many different vocalists and genres.

All the clips I’ve heard of the C100 don’t sound smooth at all. The constantants have an edge to them that really bite. But I haven’t used one in person. Has anyone who used one heard this as well?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #49
Gear Nut
 

no. it won't displace the u87ai. a c100 is a wanna-be c800g. a u87ai doesn't want to be anything other than itself, and shouldn't.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearstudent View Post
no. it won't displace the u87ai. a c100 is a wanna-be c800g. a u87ai doesn't want to be anything other than itself, and shouldn't.
Wannabe c800g. That’s funny. Is that because it’s made by Sony. This place is full of wonder.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #51
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
Wannabe c800g. That’s funny. Is that because it’s made by Sony. This place is full of wonder.
Ironic since a U87ai is a wanabee 87, no?......
Old 3 weeks ago
  #52
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toledo3's Avatar
 

The circuit of the U87ai has very little difference from the U87i (the original), and if you level match them they work fine as a stereo pair, if both are working properly. Just make sure they are also strapped for the same impedance, because that definitely makes a bigger difference.

There was a run where they were using a ceramic coupling cap, which can sound a little harder with hot levels. Not too hard to change. But that is not the current configuration.

U87ai disses are of the more overblown lines of internet BS...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #53
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
The circuit of the U87ai has very little difference from the U87i (the original), and if you level match them they work fine as a stereo pair, if both are working properly. Just make sure they are also strapped for the same impedance, because that definitely makes a bigger difference.

There was a run where they were using a ceramic coupling cap, which can sound a little harder with hot levels. But that is not the current configuration.

U87ai disses are of the more overblown lines of internet BS...
Agreed otherwise you wouldn't see them everywhere. Marketing only goes so far..... They simply WORK....!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #54
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toledo3's Avatar
 

The C100 sure seems a lot more influenced by the Josephson C700 than a Sony C800 or C800G...with a bit lower quality components specs wise (based on the electret SDC element). I wonder if the Sony engineers had one on their table.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
The circuit of the U87ai has very little difference from the U87i (the original), and if you level match them they work fine as a stereo pair, if both are working properly. Just make sure they are also strapped for the same impedance, because that definitely makes a bigger difference.

There was a run where they were using a ceramic coupling cap, which can sound a little harder with hot levels. Not too hard to change. But that is not the current configuration.

U87ai disses are of the more overblown lines of internet BS...
I disagree. Both will ofc get you the u87 sound. But the vintage is better where it counts. Takes sibilance better, not as thick around 400hz and doesn't have as much 3k resonance.


I wouldn't miss my vintage u87 though if I sold them. I would look elsewhere.

I really liked @ Paul_G comparison between c800, aa800 and c100. I liked the AA over the new c100.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #56
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
I disagree. Both will ofc get you the u87 sound. But the vintage is better where it counts. Takes sibilance better, not as thick around 400hz and doesn't have as much 3k resonance.


I wouldn't miss my vintage u87 though if I sold them. I would look elsewhere.

I really liked @ Paul_G comparison between c800, aa800 and c100. I liked the AA over the new c100.
Awhile back I had read Klaus claim the old version and new version were almost the same, and one of the few differences was that the high end rise on the newer was focused around 10k, whereas with the vintage it is around 8k...and that a vintage and old could be used fine as a pair.

I was very skeptical of this to say the least, because of the “internet lore”. I hadn’t had the opportunity to do a side by side, and so much downing on the newer Neumanns had colored my perception.

I had the opportunity to do some tracking on a project a few months later where I had the opportunity to do some comparisons (as well as checkout a few more modern Neumann mics in direct context). I found the same thing. Surprisingly the older mic had a rise in a way that was slightly more sibilant...but overall if you did want to use them as a matched pair, it would be fine. So, props to Klaus on that.

I will add that these were two very new U87ai - no daughterboard, polypropylene coupling cap, and one vintage 87 that is in good shape. Anecdotal, but that’s how I heard it. I am not sure if the “ceramic cap/daughterboard” run of the U87ai would fare as well in direct comparison or not.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #57
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toledo3's Avatar
 

And I hear you about not missing an 87 if you sold it. There are plenty of mics that will make an 87 sound broken, depending on your perspective.

But I have mixed feelings about it. Plenty of guitars sound “better” than a Strat, but it still has a kind of happening tone...IF you have been listening to music that used them, and have it burned in your brain as a reference point. Which is the case, if you listen to a lot of classic r&b/rock/pop etc.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #58
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
Awhile back I had read Klaus claim the old version and new version were almost the same, and one of the few differences was that the high end rise on the newer was focused around 10k, whereas with the vintage it is around 8k...and that a vintage and old could be used fine as a pair.

I was very skeptical of this to say the least, because of the “internet lore”. I hadn’t had the opportunity to do a side by side, and so much downing on the newer Neumanns had colored my perception.

I had the opportunity to do some tracking on a project a few months later where I had the opportunity to do some comparisons (as well as checkout a few more modern Neumann mics in direct context). I found the same thing. Surprisingly the older mic had a rise in a way that was slightly more sibilant...but overall if you did want to use them as a matched pair, it would be fine. So, props to Klaus on that.

I will add that these were two very new U87ai - no daughterboard, polypropylene coupling cap, and one vintage 87 that is in good shape. Anecdotal, but that’s how I heard it. I am not sure if the “ceramic cap/daughterboard” run of the U87ai would fare as well in direct comparison or not.
I guess we all hear it differently. I have done a/b test myself and had a Ai in my studio for a year and now I own 2 vintage. So atleast my opinion is not based on Internet lore. All other a/b tests I've heard only cemented my opinion. Small differences but the vintage is better.

Anyways, if you're after the Neumann sound a u87 will definitely get you there.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #59
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
I guess we all hear it differently. I have done a/b test myself and had a Ai in my studio for a year and now I own 2 vintage. So atleast my opinion is not based on Internet lore. All other a/b tests I've heard only cemented my opinion. Small differences but the vintage is better.

Anyways, if you're after the Neumann sound a u87 will definitely get you there.
I don’t know if the vintage 87 and new 87ai were strapped for the same output impedance. That is a biggie. Secondly, I am not sure what run yours was from, and if it had the ceramic coupling cap or not (another minor difference).

So, while I am sure you heard what you heard, it doesn’t really mean a given person might find the same results with the most recent production 87s, and a vintage 87 setup for the same output impedance.

We may in fact hear it the same...if I had heard your specific test. Hard to say really, but I’m just saying it can be a little nuanced.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post

So, while I am sure you heard what you heard, it doesn’t really mean a given person might find the same results with the most recent production 87s, and a vintage 87 setup for the same output impedance

We may in fact hear it the same...if I had heard your specific test. Hard to say really, but I’m just saying it can be a little nuanced.
Yes ofc

A thing that is true is that all vintage mics will sound different. I recently sold my u67 and we did an a/b with the buyers u67 and his sounded better. Not by a mile but atleast we heard it. It was like 2db's here and there. Close enough for it to be used as a pair with some eq, or atleast the buyer thought so.
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