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U 47 or 251 for basso profondo voice
Old 26th April 2019
  #1
U 47 or 251 for basso profondo voice

I am looking for a High End Microphone wich would capture better my low bass voice. I made a lot of research this days but still can't figure it out what would fit better for my voice!
I am considering two mics here: U47 clone and 251 clone...
If the U47 would work better for my voice, wich one to buy it? Bock 47 /407 or Flea 47?
Please give me some advice from your experience!
Thank you!

Sebastian
Old 27th April 2019
  #2
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jjblair's Avatar
Bock 507. For real.
Old 27th April 2019
  #3
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Plush's Avatar
Both FLEA and Bock would be fantastic for your voice. I own a FLEA 47 and have used a Bock 47 extensively.

Use proximity effect to vary the fullness of bass pick-up if working mic close in.

However, most basso profondo singing would be done at a distance from the microphone.

Bock has removed any bass filtering in their 47 mic and it has a more extended bass response than a typical 47 type microphone.
Old 27th April 2019
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
Bock 507. For real.
No words make me want to spend a thousand dollars quite as much as “for real”. Although I have been almost equally influenced by “legit”.
Why bother with information or insight, right? For real!
Old 27th April 2019
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Both FLEA and Bock would be fantastic for your voice. I own a FLEA 47 and have used a Bock 47 extensively.

Use proximity effect to vary the fullness of bass pick-up if working mic close in.

However, most basso profondo singing would be done at a distance from the microphone.

Bock has removed any bass filtering in their 47 mic and it has a more extended bass response than a typical 47 type microphone.
This is what I tought too!
Thanks for the precious info!
Old 27th April 2019
  #6
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Crazy4Jazz's Avatar
 

I have owned an original Soundelux C47 (I think that was the model number) and now I own a Flea 47. To my ears the Soundelux/Bock had deeper bass so I agree with Plush.
Old 27th April 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
No words make me want to spend a thousand dollars quite as much as “for real”. Although I have been almost equally influenced by “legit”.
Why bother with information or insight, right? For real!
JJ must be busy recording (or not a So. Cal native like me).
Otherwise...

He forgot to add the requisite "Dude"! (I can even SPEAK with a surfer accent too BTW)

Just kidding JJ, I know that you know WAY more-than I'll ever know!

My impression is that the deeper male vocals, can get away with a U47 FET style microphone too. (thinking Lou Rawls on "You'll Never Find"-for example)

Feel free to correct me-for real! I dig 'em on mine. Oops, I meant like they're "totally epic Man"!

Chris
Old 28th April 2019
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
JJ must be busy recording (or not a So. Cal native like me).
Otherwise...

He forgot to add the requisite "Dude"! (I can even SPEAK with a surfer accent too BTW)

Just kidding JJ, I know that you know WAY more-than I'll ever know!

My impression is that the deeper male vocals, can get away with a U47 FET style microphone too. (thinking Lou Rawls on "You'll Never Find"-for example)

Feel free to correct me-for real! I dig 'em on mine. Oops, I meant like they're "totally epic Man"!

Chris
And let’s pay tribute to “Word”. Way cool in the last century.
Old 28th April 2019
  #9
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Old 28th April 2019
  #10
I too have the Bock 407 and it's incredibly rich and warm. Yes the proximity works great, it is like the classics - beautifully intimate but step away and it still has the lush low end you're looking for. The HorchRM2J MKII is also a wonderful mic for depth and clarity it has more top end than the Bock and different patterns on the psu but they're very close in quality.
Old 28th April 2019
  #11
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Hey Sebastian. I recorded something tonight, with one of my condensers.
Just for fun, see if you can guess if it's one of my "el cheapos", or if it's my U195 (set on FAT). I'm no Pro AE (obviously), but I thought it sounded OK.

I'll keep an eye out, on this thread, and let you know "the reveal" promptly.
It's a brief acapella, of "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" (Supremes/Tempts)
below...

Chris
Attached Files

Track 1i'mgonnafinal.wav (1.33 MB, 530 views)

Old 28th April 2019
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Hey Sebastian. I recorded something tonight, with one of my condensers.
Just for fun, see if you can guess if it's one of my "el cheapos", or if it's my U195 (set on FAT). I'm no Pro AE (obviously), but I thought it sounded OK.

I'll keep an eye out, on this thread, and let you know "the reveal" promptly.
It's a brief acapella, of "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" (Supremes/Tempts)
below...

Chris
Wow!
Nice voice! And I like it's very up front...It can be the U195, i believe it is...
In wich environement did you record it? What chain? Very in your face...
I'm trying so hard for a while to get that sound and still my records are a little in the back and with some mud... Don't know what to do anymore...
Thanks!

Sebastian
Old 28th April 2019
  #13
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Thanks so much Sebastian!

Now here's "The Reveal" (Drum roll please!)...

Environment: After hours at work (room approx. 20' X 20' untreated/rug floor).
About 8" away from microphone.

Chain: Microphone>Mbox 2 Mini ($50 used)>Multitrackstudio Free DAW Lite (Free stock/provided plugins)

Plugins: Vintage Compression/Saturator both "Tube" & "Tape"/Free Kjaerhus Classic
Compression & Limiter

Reverb: Mix of Plate/Hall/Free Kjaerhus Classic (Small Hall)

And the star of our show, with no expen$e spared...

The mighty AKG P120, for which I paid the princely sum of $80 new!
Chris

P.S. Should have added that this was recorded, on a 10 year old "vintage" Toshiba Satellite laptop, 16 bit/44.1
Old 28th April 2019
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Thanks so much Sebastian!

Now here's "The Reveal" (Drum roll please!)...

Environment: After hours at work (room approx. 20' X 20' untreated/rug floor).
About 8" away from microphone.

Chain: Microphone>Mbox 2 Mini ($50 used)>Multitrackstudio Free DAW Lite (Free stock/provided plugins)

Plugins: Vintage Compression/Saturator both "Tube" & "Tape"/Free Kjaerhus Classic
Compression & Limiter

Reverb: Mix of Plate/Hall/Free Kjaerhus Classic (Small Hall)

And the star of our show, with no expen$e spared...

The mighty AKG P120, for which I paid the princely sum of $80 new!
Chris

P.S. Should have added that this was recorded, on a 10 year old "vintage" Toshiba Satellite laptop, 16 bit/44.1
That is not fair!

Last edited by morosh; 28th April 2019 at 06:14 PM..
Old 28th April 2019
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

the Blue Mouse would be perfect for you
Old 28th April 2019
  #16
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Plush's Avatar
Sample has a cheap edge to the sound that I reject.
Old 28th April 2019
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morosh View Post
That is not fair!
When you take a budget Chinese capsule/internals, like the P120, I think what made this a nice sounding microphone is the...
Very flat response pattern, with just a moderate "air" bump around 12 KHz.

If we A/B'd it directly with a Neumann/Bock/Horch/FLEA/etc., yes you'd hear those premium microphones are more sonically refined.

Here's another brief acapella clip below.
Doing my best to be Barry White's little brother!
:-)
Chris
Attached Files

Song 73I'mgonnaloveyouP120.wav (2.08 MB, 433 views)

Old 28th April 2019
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Sample has a cheap edge to the sound that I reject.
Plush, if I had a dollar, for every time I heard "soothing" (or something synonymous), regarding my voice... I'd be driving a Ferrari, instead of a Buick!

So I guess you're mean the microphone (hopefully). I blasted that audio with a lot of "smoothing" plugins, to try to make it even smoother. Thanks for your feedback though.
Chris
Old 28th April 2019
  #19
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Sample has a cheap edge to the sound that I reject.
What’s a “cheap” edge? Isn’t edge edge? If he said it was recorded on a Manley and had the same edge, would you reject the clip as having an “expensive edge”.

I think the “cheap” in your statement comes from the mic and price being named. To use “cheap edge” with any meaning, you would need to say where in the price range mics are no longer considered cheap (your choice). Then, in a series of blind AB tests, I’d be curious if you (or any of us) could reliably identify “cheap edge” compared to bright mics that aren’t cheap, or smoother mics that fall within your definition of cheap.
And of course, we’d have to agree on a neutral test voice. I’ve never thought of chesparov’s clip voice as edgy, but perhaps his voice is strikingly cheap (isn’t that something a lot of us fear?).
Have an edgy but high end day... one that will escape rejection!
Old 28th April 2019
  #20
Lives for gear
 

OK here's another cheap/edgy brief clip.

An Oktava 319 (stock) I picked up for $120.
Song is from the latest Star Is Born movie.

Same signal chain/ room otherwise.

I wonder now how Plush is going to "couch" his response!
Attached Files

Song 60oldwaysdie319final.wav (1.57 MB, 442 views)

Old 28th April 2019
  #21
Lives for gear
I hope it has a wonderfully detailed, lifted top end that is difficult to price. More “rounded up” than “edgy”. More “value at a bargain price” than “cheap”. But I reject firing up my studio to listen to it on a Sunday when the Dodgers are playing soon.
Old 28th April 2019
  #22
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Plush's Avatar
It is the mic that lends a cheap edge to the sound. Anyone who knows mics can hear it. Mock me at your own peril.
Old 28th April 2019
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
It is the mic that lends a cheap edge to the sound. Anyone who knows mics can hear it. Mock me at your own peril.
“...at your own peril”?
Threats? That’s an interesting post on an audio forum.

Consider some issues that I considered before posting. First, I have some (perhaps too much) concern with the exactness of the language used in audio. Words have meaning, or they don’t. When they don’t, language serves no meaningful purpose.
“Cheap” is not a sound. It is not even a word that is generally used to express any kind of sensory perception. Some examples of words that can be used that way are “harsh, mellow, distorted, bright, dull, smokey or spicy”.
I’m not intending to mock you, but to express doubt that you have said anything with the word “cheap” that could be tied to a commonly understood or testable audio quality.
Your statement that “anyone who knows mics can hear it” is nonsense.
I know a lot of mics through use or purchase, going back fifty years. I love some really cheap mics, some mid level mics and some expensive mics. I don’t love, hate, or characterize any of them according to their price tags.
I honestly don’t hear “cheap”. If you are talking about a common quality of certain China-made LDCs, yes, I do hear that common quality of harshness in the top end on a number of mics, but I don’t hear it on relatively cheap LDCs with China-made capsules by, for example, A-T, Mojave, and AKG. So again, “cheap” doesn’t seem to define a sound.
Old 28th April 2019
  #24
Lives for gear
 

Hudson (Plush), I was only kidding around.

There was a recent unexpected death, in my extended family. It was Gary Stewart (Rhino/iTunes), and I grew up with his brother.

So... The last thing I want to do, is to bother anybody-especially right now.
Chris
Old 29th April 2019
  #25
Lives for gear
Chris,
Sorry to hear of this loss. I thought I might have met Gary in my time in LA, but digging in Wikipedia makes me doubt that. Reading about his career-long devotion and innovation regarding all aspects of music catalogues, and his time and effort toward good causes and worthwhile charities, his seems from here like a life devoted to what he loved and those he felt for.
It is a shame that he did not live longer, but there is much to respect in seeing both the good work and general good he accomplished in his life.
Old 29th April 2019
  #26
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Thanks so much! Very much appreciated. Chris
Old 29th April 2019
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Stravinsky View Post
the Blue Mouse would be perfect for you
Hi Eric, I'll have to try one out sometime.
Thanks, Chris
Old 29th April 2019
  #28
Lives for gear
 

I would think a 44 ribbon, would also be a fine choice for the OP's voice. I'm biased, as that's my favorite vocal microphone of all! Chris
Old 29th April 2019
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Hey Sebastian. I recorded something tonight, with one of my condensers.
Just for fun, see if you can guess if it's one of my "el cheapos", or if it's my U195 (set on FAT). I'm no Pro AE (obviously), but I thought it sounded OK.

I'll keep an eye out, on this thread, and let you know "the reveal" promptly.
It's a brief acapella, of "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" (Supremes/Tempts)
below...

Chris
Great stuff, sounding like Tony Joe White there Chris.
Old 29th April 2019
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Sample has a cheap edge to the sound that I reject.
Noted but rejected.
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