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Bae 1073 vs Shelford Channel
Old 7th April 2019
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Bae 1073 vs Shelford Channel

Hello, I recently upgraded my vocal booth and room, so I've decided to purchase a new vocal chain. I already have a U87ai and I plan on purchasing a Bae 1073 (with eq) and a CL-1B to go along with it. My question is should I get the Bae 1073 or Shelford Channel for the Preamp section? I plan on using it for vocals mainly (modern hip-hop/r&B like Drake, Kendrick Lamar, SZA, etc). Hope to hear your opinion. Thanks everyone!
Old 8th April 2019
  #2
The BAE has a thicker tone, more overall coloration and is more mellow in comparison. The RND isn’t quite as ‘old school’ sounding but considering it has a diode compressor that the BAE doesn’t have (in addition to preamp and EQ), you can get pretty close and maybe the little bit of extra clarity is a better thing in your genre (or however you want things to sound)? They are both great pieces, The majority of gear (especially pre eq comps) are genre ‘agnostic’ so it just depends on what you are after - both of these pieces will serve any professional situation well.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
Gear Head
 
astralpen's Avatar
I had both and ended up selling the 1073 and keeping the Shelford. Much more versatile piece and sounds great.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
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jjblair's Avatar
I don't know that I agree with Nathan's assessment. In head to head comparisons of the pres, I was able to get the RND to sound exactly like a 1073, when I added 50% red texture. Needless to say, if you go beyond 50%, the RND will sound thicker. The major difference between the two being that the RND has 8dB more headroom, and measurably better transient response. It has that API type quickness, but the sound of Neve, which I prefer.

The big difference between the two for me is the EQ. I miss the 12kHz on the RND, even though the 8 and 16 sound nice. 12 is just always ideal for me for bass drum snap. And the low end doesn't do that weird pillowy thing that the 1073 does on a kick, when you crank 110Hz. But it still sounds great, and has that inductive EQ vibe that is all Neve. They are both fantastic, which is why my new console is filled with each. The Neve might be a little more flexible, but if you want to sound exactly like an od Neve 1073m the BAE nails that. You just have to decide which works best for you.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
I have owned shelfords and BAEs and to my ears... the BAEs had the magic and mojo. The shelfords sounded like a beefy portico. That’s to my ear.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred View Post
The BAE has a thicker tone,
muddy tone as well
Old 1 week ago
  #7
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
muddy tone as well
Then you define vintage Neve tone as muddy, because my vintage Neves are indistinguishable from my BAE.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
Then you define vintage Neve tone as muddy,
no I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
because my vintage Neves are indistinguishable from my BAE.
really?? there are no components in a BAE unit that are the same as a real unit so I don't know how they can be 'indistinguishable'. I have a an original Brent Averill racked 1073 that is great, but the recent BAE units are not the same IMO. I'm not saying they don't sound good but they are muddy in the low mids and overall darker sounding. I suppose all this terminology is subjective so options will vary. However 'indistinguishable' is a bold statement. I have another 1073 that is a different year issue than my BA unit and that sounds slightly different. Some of the transformers are different brands. Maybe that is the difference.
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Lives for gear
I have both. This is GS, you need both. Ha! Just kidding.

Unfortunately, if you have to decide between the two, they both sound great. What is the best flavor of high end chocolate? I do think Nathan Eldridge's post is right on. But don't misunderstand him, you can get that 1073 sound out of it for certain. It's got options and lots of them, so it's not plug in and play like the BAE.

My advice is purchase a used BAE since you already have the CL-1B compressor. That is a good sound there. It limits your options with sound so you can focus on music. Get the Shelford if you want or need options in sound.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
no I don't.



really?? there are no components in a BAE unit that are the same as a real unit so I don't know how they can be 'indistinguishable'. I have a an original Brent Averill racked 1073 that is great, but the recent BAE units are not the same IMO. I'm not saying they don't sound good but they are muddy in the low mids and overall darker sounding. I suppose all this terminology is subjective so options will vary. However 'indistinguishable' is a bold statement. I have another 1073 that is a different year issue than my BA unit and that sounds slightly different. Some of the transformers are different brands. Maybe that is the difference.
I own vintage 1073s, which have been recapped maybe 10 years ago, and BAEs. We've done tests with mult'ing the signal and recording through both. Not only did they sound identical, they nulled. I've never heard the BAEs sound "muddy." We'll frequently patch into the BAEs over the Neves, simply because they are less finicky. Mine are certainly not darker sounding. Are you wither using new Neves or vintage ones with dried up electrolytic caps?
Old 1 week ago
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
no I don't.



really?? there are no components in a BAE unit that are the same as a real unit so I don't know how they can be 'indistinguishable'. I have a an original Brent Averill racked 1073 that is great, but the recent BAE units are not the same IMO. I'm not saying they don't sound good but they are muddy in the low mids and overall darker sounding. I suppose all this terminology is subjective so options will vary. However 'indistinguishable' is a bold statement. I have another 1073 that is a different year issue than my BA unit and that sounds slightly different. Some of the transformers are different brands. Maybe that is the difference.
Cool story.
Old 1 week ago
  #12
BAE build quality is junk compared to RND and their "customer service" is even worse.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
Gear Head
 

tough call. maybe you could buy both, and return the one you don't want.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
My vote would be for the Shelford simply for the versatility. You really can't go wrong with either, just slightly different shades of "great"
Old 1 week ago
  #15
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripripstabstab View Post
BAE build quality is junk compared to RND and their "customer service" is even worse.
Really? Junk? How so? Components? Badly wired? Wiggly knobs?
Old 1 week ago
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Really? Junk? How so? Components? Badly wired? Wiggly knobs?
Considering the cost, absolutely. Crooked buttons, knobs that aren't properly aligned, ground hum inherent to the device itself (not due to user power/cabling/etc) are found in my unit alone. A search here on GS alone will show you even more problems from other users.

If they were in the price range of other clones (Heritage et al) it may be considered acceptable, but not for their asking price... hell no.

Their rep Mark is a total jerk, too. Last time I asked about a repair he snapped at me in ALL CAPS and, when asked to clarify, didn't even respond.

In total, no thanks.
Old 1 week ago
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripripstabstab View Post
Considering the cost, absolutely. Crooked buttons, knobs that aren't properly aligned, ground hum inherent to the device itself (not due to user power/cabling/etc) are found in my unit alone. A search here on GS alone will show you even more problems from other users.

If they were in the price range of other clones (Heritage et al) it may be considered acceptable, but not for their asking price... hell no.

Their rep Mark is a total jerk, too. Last time I asked about a repair he snapped at me in ALL CAPS and, when asked to clarify, didn't even respond.

In total, no thanks.
I’m sorry to hear that. Sounds extremely frustrating. I’ve got a dual 1073 MPF I’ve been pretty happy with myself. Haven’t needed any service so far. Sounds very nice indeed. Thick. Substantial.
Old 1 week ago
  #18
Here for the gear
 

I can’t speak to the BAE as I’ve only used them a couple times, but I own two Shelford channels and love them. Top grade build quality and sound.
Old 1 week ago
  #19
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripripstabstab View Post
BAE build quality is junk compared to RND and their "customer service" is even worse.
That is simply not correct. I own both. BAE uses the highest quality components - old style.

RND is a modern build. High end.

The BAE is much better set up for repairs since it is old style electronics. In short, I'd rather have the BAE style build.
Old 1 week ago
  #20
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripripstabstab View Post
Considering the cost, absolutely. Crooked buttons, knobs that aren't properly aligned, ground hum inherent to the device itself (not due to user power/cabling/etc) are found in my unit alone. A search here on GS alone will show you even more problems from other users.

If they were in the price range of other clones (Heritage et al) it may be considered acceptable, but not for their asking price... hell no.

Their rep Mark is a total jerk, too. Last time I asked about a repair he snapped at me in ALL CAPS and, when asked to clarify, didn't even respond.

In total, no thanks.
You just showed your hand. There's a reason that Heritage is cheaper: They are using cheaper components. BAE is the only company using Marinairs that are made in the UK, last I checked. They are using better Elma switches than even AMS NEVE, and there's a whole host of other components that are of better quality than their competitors'. There's more to these things than just Marconi knobs. The only thing not true to the vintage 1073s they do is radial caps instead of mustard caps, but I'm not hearing a difference between those two things.

Hey, btw, if you're knob isn't aligned, there's the device called a greeny. You insert it into the screw slot, loosen the screw and align the knob. It's not very hard. None of my numerous BAE modules had that issue, so maybe somebody along the way tried to turn something past where it should go on yours, but that's kind of a ridiculous complaint.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripripstabstab View Post
BAE build quality is junk compared to RND and their "customer service" is even worse.
The build quality in side my BAE 1073D is literally a work of art!

The wiremanship is absutely stunning, I have some photos I took (I'll see if I can find them)

It is superbly made, I have a fair amount of boutique hand made pro audio and BAE is a the top for build quality, the quality of the components are also top flight with Elma switches and Canford wire etc.

The sound is very, very close the the original Neve's I've used.

I can't recommend BAE highly enough, stunning build quality and a full fat rock n roll sound.
Old 1 week ago
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
You just showed your hand. There's a reason that Heritage is cheaper: They are using cheaper components. BAE is the only company using Marinairs that are made in the UK, last I checked. They are using better Elma switches than even AMS NEVE, and there's a whole host of other components that are of better quality than their competitors'. There's more to these things than just Marconi knobs. The only thing not true to the vintage 1073s they do is radial caps instead of mustard caps, but I'm not hearing a difference between those two things.

Hey, btw, if you're knob isn't aligned, there's the device called a greeny. You insert it into the screw slot, loosen the screw and align the knob. It's not very hard. None of my numerous BAE modules had that issue, so maybe somebody along the way tried to turn something past where it should go on yours, but that's kind of a ridiculous complaint.
Showed my hand...? Lol, no idea what your white-knighting is about.

A $2,100 pre should have none of my issues and come backed with customer service that's just a little bit better than dog ****.

If anyone wants the Neve sound and more that's actually built well and looked after then buy something from Aurora.
Old 1 week ago
  #23
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripripstabstab View Post
Showed my hand...? Lol, no idea what your white-knighting is about.

A $2,100 pre should have none of my issues and come backed with customer service that's just a little bit better than dog ****.

If anyone buy something from Aurora.
Meaning, I see you have an axe to grind. Also, you tipped your hand but thinking Heritage is on par with BAE. Sorry Mark gave you bad service, but there’s many reasons a knob could have been overturned, but **** happens and I’ve seen stuff like that all the time. But I think I’m beginning to see why Mark gave you a rough ride.
Old 1 week ago
  #24
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
You just showed your hand. There's a reason that Heritage is cheaper: They are using cheaper components. BAE is the only company using Marinairs that are made in the UK, last I checked. They are using better Elma switches than even AMS NEVE, and there's a whole host of other components that are of better quality than their competitors'. There's more to these things than just Marconi knobs. The only thing not true to the vintage 1073s they do is radial caps instead of mustard caps, but I'm not hearing a difference between those two things.

Hey, btw, if you're knob isn't aligned, there's the device called a greeny. You insert it into the screw slot, loosen the screw and align the knob. It's not very hard. None of my numerous BAE modules had that issue, so maybe somebody along the way tried to turn something past where it should go on yours, but that's kind of a ridiculous complaint.
Don’t get me started on the switches in Heritage.
Old 1 week ago
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
Meaning, I see you have an axe to grind. Also, you tipped your hand but thinking Heritage is on par with BAE. Sorry Mark gave you bad service, but there’s many reasons a knob could have been overturned, but **** happens and I’ve seen stuff like that all the time. But I think I’m beginning to see why Mark gave you a rough ride.
Hahahah. Wow, guy. Follow the ball.

"If they were in the price range of other clones (Heritage et al) it may be considered acceptable, but not for their asking price... hell no." Shoddy workmanship and piss poor CS might be acceptable for low budget gear like Heritage et al, not for $2,000+ gear. In no way whatsoever does this read that "Heritage is on par with BAE".

And I didn't ask Mark about a knob, I asked about a ground hum problem inherent to the device itself (not because of power, positioning, cabling, etc -- the unit itself is faulty) that renders the right channel unusable. The buttons and knobs are obviously minor annoyances compared to that and weren't even mentioned in my support request.

Maybe try actually reading and comprehending my posts before showing up with some cringe business about "hands"
Old 1 week ago
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
But I think I’m beginning to see why Mark gave you a rough ride.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripripstabstab View Post
Hahahah. Wow, guy. Follow the ball.

"If they were in the price range of other clones (Heritage et al) it may be considered acceptable, but not for their asking price... hell no." Shoddy workmanship and piss poor CS might be acceptable for low budget gear like Heritage et al, not for $2,000+ gear. In no way whatsoever does this read that "Heritage is on par with BAE".

And I didn't ask Mark about a knob, I asked about a ground hum problem inherent to the device itself (not because of power, positioning, cabling, etc -- the unit itself is faulty) that renders the right channel unusable. The buttons and knobs are obviously minor annoyances compared to that and weren't even mentioned in my support request.

Maybe try actually reading and comprehending my posts before showing up with some cringe business about "hands"

Still no word on the real issue here.

..just as long as you are happy being right friend.
Old 1 week ago
  #27
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From what I understand the BAE uses Carnhills. There are no Marinair xformers anymore to my knowledge just references to xformers being wound by former Marinair workers.
How to get get vintage 1073s to null with new BAEs? They would have to be identical is everyway. Tolerance between components, different xformers all come into play. I compared a new BAE to a 1073 with marinairs originally racked by Brent Averill not the current BAE. I had the original for 8yrs. They were similar but not identical. 1073 was still the winner though I could make a great record with either pre.

OP needs to decide whether he wants something close to a Holy Grail vocal chain or take a chance on a different sound with the RND. If I needed a 1073 I wouldn't buy the Shelford. If I wanted something more modern with a hint of Neve then the Shelford would be worth considering.
Old 1 week ago
  #28
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jjblair's Avatar
Like I said, **** happens. Mark should have handled it differently, but I am seeing why he may have handled you this way. But the fact that you don’t understand the difference between Heritage and this kit tells me a great deal.
Old 1 week ago
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
Like I said, **** happens. Mark should have handled it differently, but I am seeing why he may have handled you this way. But the fact that you don’t understand the difference between Heritage and this kit tells me a great deal.
No offense, but are you not a native English speaker or something? At this point I'm genuinely baffled as to what part of this very simple concept is so confusing for you and it'd explain a lot. If so, sorry, I dunno what else to tell you. Have never said anything remotely close to "Heritage is on par with BAE" or whatever your newest invention is.

If not, yikes. Read it all again slowly or something. Swap out the names to form an analogy on your level. And if the lightbulb ever turns on go ahead and try to get over the fact that yet another user has had problems entirely unbecoming of a supposedly "high end" brand like BAE.

Old 1 week ago
  #30
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripripstabstab View Post
No offense, but are you not a native English speaker or something? At this point I'm genuinely baffled as to what part of this very simple concept is so confusing for you and it'd explain a lot. If so, sorry, I dunno what else to tell you. Have never said anything remotely close to "Heritage is on par with BAE" or whatever your newest invention is.

If not, yikes. Read it all again slowly or something. Swap out the names to form an analogy on your level. And if the lightbulb ever turns on go ahead and try to get over the fact that yet another user has had problems entirely unbecoming of a supposedly "high end" brand like BAE.

"If they were in the price range of other clones (Heritage et al) it may be considered acceptable, but not for their asking price... "

Those are your words. You drew the analogy between BAE and Heritage. I was pointing out that you obviously fail understand what differentiates BAE modules from Heritage, which is the quality of the internal components. Is that clear enough for you? Or do you need it explained again?

Also, previously, you said their build quality was junk compared to RND, which shows that you also don't understand the difference between SMD components and a hand wired module like a 1073. You suggest that at their price point, nothing should be wrong. I dunno. I've been buying pro audio gear for a few decades. **** happens. Humans make these things, and sometimes either something gets by QC, or something happens in the shipping process. It's not terribly uncommon. And sorry, bitching about a knob not lining up is just abut as petty and silly as it gets.

But, in terms of Mark treating you like you say, the more you type, I can certainly see his point. I know a good deal of the audio manufacturers, and you display the traits of the low information customers that they complain about frequently. On top of it, you seem to be kind of a tool. So, if your back and forth with me is anything like what Mark experienced, I certainly get it. I wouldn't want you as a customer either.

Last edited by jjblair; 1 week ago at 07:33 PM..
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