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Neumann KH 750 - read before you buy it
Old 7th August 2020 | Show parent
  #91
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I usually mix at around 75dB and i never felt the kh310s struggled with bass but with bass heavy music i can hear the difference straight away but only because i had the kh750 to compare it with. The analogy would be driving a car with 2 people vs 4.

With the K+H o300 i had before they definitely needed subs to help them. The kh310s not so much but the whole system sounds better and has more power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adl View Post
Thanks for the detailed answer!
I had the Adam A7 monitors with an Adam Sub before I switched to the Neumanns and felt that I lost a little bit of bass, but not that much. But I could definitely hear clearer when I set a lowcut to like 28Hz or 32Hz, compared to the Neumanns without a sub. Still not to keen to integrate a sub again, as the room is practically the living room even though it is treated with a Bass trap and some broadband absorbers. But the opening up on the 310's when used with a sub sounds interesting. Do you think this is especially when mixing rather loud? Like 80dB and up?
Old 11th August 2020 | Show parent
  #92
Any word on the street from Neumann about a macOS desktop version of the Neumann.Control app? Or even an iOS phone ready version? Thinking about adding the KH 750 to my KH80s but don't currently own an iPad or want to buy one just to take advantage of setting this thing up.
Old 11th August 2020
  #93
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Same here. I was thinking hard about these but am now thinking twice - no offense to any brand but I just don’t trust any (non-software) brand to maintain their proprietary software for the long term.

I wish it had simple controls on the speaker like the 310
Old 17th August 2020 | Show parent
  #94
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iPad

I own a pair of KH120's. I am awaiting a KH750 sub to arrive in the next few days. I'm a bit confused as to whether there is an additional level of DSP adjustability using the KH750 with the KH80DSP as opposed to my current KH120's? Is there any advantage of using the 80DSP over the 120 because of the "DSP" designation in the 80 and the 80 beingdesigned with the feature set in mind?

Also, once you use the iPad to set things up will I need it after being dialed in? In other words can I borrow my grandmas iPad to set it all up and then return it back to her, or do I need to have the iPad booted and on my desktop to utilize the features in realtime.

Last edited by Phunkfarm; 21st August 2020 at 04:29 PM..
Old 31st August 2020 | Show parent
  #95
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Do you think guys the combination of Neumann KH80 + kh750 would be good for a small room (4x3 meters) with Acoustic Treatment from Hofa. My budget is 2200 euros.

I have worked with Adam S2A and S2V a long period of time and I love them, but they are out of my budget.

I have read good reviews about Neumann, flat response down to 20hz.

I would like to hear what you think, your recommendations and experience. Really appreciate it. thanks!
Old 1st September 2020 | Show parent
  #96
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Yes
Old 12th September 2020 | Show parent
  #97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaoka86 View Post
Integration is flawless. Extension down to 18Hz has almost the same behavior like the Kh310 in terms of tonality and speed. The KH310 really grow so much in every aspects.

If you set the dspEQ properly the bass is so clean down to 20Hz. Also got the Kh120, Kh80 here for some testing. These two works fine with KH750 but you really miss the warm gentle mid Range from the KH310.

Kh80/kh120 with Kh750 lack a bit of mid warmth imho. Kh80 are a tad more coherent and faster transient then kh310.

But..Kh310/kh750 just sounds so natural and right in every aspect to me. Besides audible check I was often take a look at my Rme Adi 2Dac graphic analyzer, everything audible comes from kh310/kh750 coinciding exactly with the RME Analyzer.

Had also the Genelec 8831 here for some test with kh750 but find them too bright and lack in mid warmth. Same behavior like Kh80/kh120, should be the cabinet size in general.

Kh750 dsp App is a lifesaver in bad environment like mine. Its a similar solution to GLM if you can use REW with a calibrated mic. We rebuild our house and I have to work in a temporary space.

I fixed the FR with kh750, works great despites the time domain issues in this room. Attached is before/after FR, great compromise for the next month in this space.
This looks quite interesting for me as I have a very odd 36 HZ peak with a reverb time close to a second. If the KH 750 can fix this, I'm going to take one.
Old 12th September 2020 | Show parent
  #98
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred View Post
Whatever sounds good for your room should be used and there are no definitive rules; but to point a few things out:

80 Hz crossover is the standard for THX systems, and most people using systems for music set the subs differently. 50 Hz or so is still directional and is beneficial to hear from the stereo mains.

In general you want to set the subwoofer crossover to 1.5 octave above the -3db low point of the mains.

One subwoofer is generally not optimum, and can actually cause more problems in a room. Two subwoofers are usually better as they excite the bass peaks and dips less than one sub.
What is the rational of the last statement of using two subs rather then just one? Depends that also of phase and positioning of the sub or basically just because of the SPL potential?
Old 7th October 2020 | Show parent
  #99
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I've been able to test 2x KH750 w/ KH310s due to receiving a damaged one (**** fedex for ruining a perfectly good sub) and here's what I've gotta say.

If you listen to a bunch of leftfield bass like I do it's a lot more enjoyable. Having two subs really gives you that body-shaking feel compared to one. Adding 1 sub gives you much more headroom on your mains and you should pretty much never see the limiters kick on. It adds a transparent support to the KH310s, like other users have said - you can barely tell you added a sub until you listen closely and realize you added another octave to your range. Adding another sub however makes it much more obvious, especially at lower volumes.

If adding a kh750 to the setup gives you 10-15% more sound, I would say adding 1 more sub gives you 5% more. Diminishing returns for sure, but when I have money burning a hole in my pocket I'm definitely going to buy another one in the future IF:

Now here I will list some huge glaring problems.

1. The DSP app is a huge problem. Using it on my iPad pro every time I start it up it has to connect to the network and look for devices which takes about 5-10 seconds. That might not seem like a huge deal but just think about doing this in terms of workflow.

2. No dual sub configurations in the DSP app. This means you have to switch between setups in the DSP app which is painful because the problem in #1 happens TWICE.

3. Spdif. Not really a problem - just the nature of digital out but it will make the other problems much more obvious.

You should be using SPDIF out to avoid an extra A/D conversion for nothing.

This means stuff like dimming and muting mains or subs has to be done on the DSP app. So you're stuck with problems #1 and #2 because you *have* to use the DSP app. Yikes.

I'm not going to get into whether 2 subs is better than 1. That's going to be largely dependent on your room. I use sonarworks in a treated room so having 1 sub is great, having 2 subs is great. It's just all great.


I really hope the only 1 Sub config is an iOS limitation and not a hardware limitation. If so they should really make an macOS app for it - who likes opening up their ipad to control stuff when they are deep in a project anyway? I'm not really sure how to contact Neumann to give them this feedback. Their site is hard to navigate and only list service contact and I'm sure seinheisser USA doesn't give a **** about my feedback on neumann speakers.
Old 10th October 2020 | Show parent
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo.b View Post
Didn't subwoofers used to come with a footswitch input to bypass?
The Focal Sub6 still does.

I'm working in a small room at the moment and trying to decide if either the Focal or the Neumann would work for me. I have Sonarworks so maybe I'd be fine with either one but the added control, potential control from what I've read here, of the Neumann would be a benefit.
Old 11th October 2020 | Show parent
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk_ View Post
The Focal Sub6 still does.

I'm working in a small room at the moment and trying to decide if either the Focal or the Neumann would work for me. I have Sonarworks so maybe I'd be fine with either one but the added control, potential control from what I've read here, of the Neumann would be a benefit.
My experience with kh750 was not good on a small room (14 square meters).
Without control app was sh.t. With adjustments it improved the responses significantly but creating a weird low freq effect it was like an artificial sound and moving slightly to other points on the room the sound changed completely. the Mids were affected as well.

My conclusion was my small room can only manage properly the typical range of frequencies of a 6.5 or smaller woofer. Just looking for something neutral, detailed but at the same time easy to manage I decided to improve the acoustics of my room and went for the PMC result 6. I use my headphones for very low frequencies. Extremely happy so far.

Maybe your room is completely different... the Neumann combo kh80+750 sounds amazing but requires medium/large space or invest a lot on the acoustics.
Old 11th October 2020 | Show parent
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culebras View Post
My conclusion was my small room can only manage properly the typical range of frequencies of a 6.5 or smaller woofer.....

...Maybe your room is completely different... the Neumann combo kh80+750 sounds amazing but requires medium/large space or invest a lot on the acoustics.
I'm coming to the same conclusion. I'm not reading success stories with the KH750 as I research it, more just like yours.

Switching to the PMC Result 6 or the Barefoot Footprint 02 is looking like a better option for me.
Old 12th October 2020 | Show parent
  #103
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No matter what monitors you install into a room, the proper acoustical treatment of that room is critical to getting the best and designed performance of the monitors.
Old 15th October 2020 | Show parent
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRS View Post
No matter what monitors you install into a room, the proper acoustical treatment of that room is critical to getting the best and designed performance of the monitors.
Absolutely true and understood by most I'm sure.

Nice little plug for yourself
Old 15th October 2020 | Show parent
  #105
SRS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk_ View Post
Absolutely true and understood by most I'm sure.

Nice little plug for yourself
You’d think. But not always so. And I’m not selling anything. Not sure what the snarky plug thing is all about. Just giving perspective based on a long-time KH user. Just trying to help a GSr out.
Old 16th October 2020 | Show parent
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRS View Post
You’d think. But not always so. And I’m not selling anything. Not sure what the snarky plug thing is all about. Just giving perspective based on a long-time KH user. Just trying to help a GSr out.
Huh, that link in your previous post, the one to your business in room treatment, is gone from this one.

That's curious !
Old 16th October 2020 | Show parent
  #107
SRS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk_ View Post
Huh, that link in your previous post, the one to your business in room treatment, is gone from this one.

That's curious !
Nothing curious about it. Gear Slutz only puts users' signature line on certain posts (for example look on this page up at posts number 97 and 98. Same user, sig line on first post, not on 2nd one). I don't sell product, room treatment or the like. I have a business, recording studio, since 2004. It's a personal studio, but I do some work for certain persons that I choose to work with. So my website indicates that as well. If you'd like to see the link again to police my selling of product, feel free. The website is www.solutionroom.com

There is no room treatment that I sell, as you say. I provide a service, mostly to close acquaintances and the like. I designed and built this studio. So I know every detail that went into it. I don't design and build studios for customers. I did it for myself. I believe I've explained that well enough.

Listen, I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest here. Like I said, I was and am just trying to give my personal perspective on the Neumann monitor line, as a satisfied user in the real world.

Thread hi-jack over. I hope.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #108
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One more success story...

Hello to everyone.

I think that I've got the outstanding result with 2.1 KH120(pair)+KH750(single).

I have a small room with 3m x 4m and 2.5 ceiling, but I did a very good treatment(combining knauf heradesign, acoustic wool, drywall+waterproofing membranes). My room still have a 40hz/80hz problem, but neumanns DSP allowed me to get a flat sweep test correcting the low frequency resonances by -4-5db under 100hz.

Another problem is a working desk. It gives the frequency gap at 100-130 Hz caused by strange interference, but DSP allowed to correct that also bumping this range by 3-4db up. This is not perfect, but I'm working on changing the desk.

Calibration process did a very well delay/phase correction, but the frequency response was not good. So I did a sweep tests by ears and with the calibration mic.

And mamma mia... It just blows me away. KH 120 never sounded like that before without sub. My third day of listening shows a very good and detailed translation of any music genre. Instrument separation is insane, the bass is deep, tight and have a very good neutral presence. The stereo imaging and detailing is higher of my expectation. I need to get used to the new sound in a good way.

I had an A7X, MSP7 + Eve TS 107, APS Klasik(my current second pair) before but neumans gave me a big step up definitely. I cannot compare this setup with PMC/ATC/Amphion side by side, but I've just blown away of how it translates.

I trust neumann products. I like that the whole range of monitors have the same high resolution titanum tweeters and their 2.0 speakers can bring the next level monitoring system with the sub and DSP correction. I cannot imagine more clever marketing without selling cheaper speakers with replacement to the more expensive range or something like that.

And I can tell that it fits to the small but very good treated rooms. Acoustic imperfection can be corrected in the reasonable limit. It's sad but you still deal with the physics.

https://ibb.co/rbKzKh3
https://ibb.co/ZVrG7qM
Old 3 weeks ago
  #109
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Hey all,

Not sure how many people have been encountering difficulties getting their Neumann system to appear on their iPad app, but I've been struggling with it on and off for the last 6 months or so. Once the speakers appear in the app the control is pretty incredible...I have the 750 with a pair of 310s and dialing the sound in using fuzzmeasure as a quick reference is a real joy. But, trying to get the speakers to show up in my app has taken a good 20-30 minutes of trial and error every time, needing to restart both speaker and wifi router and etc multiple times. I ended up buying just a dedicated wifi router for the speaker that I connected to with my ipad (no internet involved) and that worked ok, but I'd still need to do a few cycles of restarting whenever I wanted to use it. It wasn't a huge deal because I don't use the app other than when I feel I need to do an EQ change, but it still sucked. It also finally stopped working entirely.

So, just wanted to share here that I finally found a system that seems to work flawlessly (so far, fingers crossed...). It's cumbersome AF, but it works every time and it has nothing to do with internet, so this could also be a system that would work great if you had to set up the speakers in a remote location with no internet service (which is fantastic with the tiny KH80s that I have for home/travel use). The system is all cables and adaptors, no wifi need:

KH750 ->ethernet cable-> broadband router (I'm using a $20 Trendnet one) ->ethernet cable-> apple ethernet to usb adaptor -> apple powered usb to lightning adaptor (must be the powered one and must be connected to power!) -> iPad. I then turn off WIFI on the iPad so it doesn't get confused, open the Neumann.Control app, and there they are!

Anyways, I'm not super literate on networking so maybe this was more obvious to everyone else, but just thought I'd share since it took me a while to arrive on this. Again, I'm not setting this up every time I use my speakers, just when I need to make an adjustment to the EQ/delay system on the app. So while it's cumbersome, knowing that I can pull it out and it works immediately is super great. Personally I like plugging things in and just knowing they'll work. Also obviously let's all pray to the neumann gawds that they release an OS/PC version of this software, having it only on iPad is incredibly obnoxious, especially because it's so great and as far as I can tell there's nothing else out there that puts this kind of control on the speaker itself. Being able to set it and forget it without having to use a plugin or software or anything is fantastic for taking a decently treated room and making it great.

z
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #110
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I wonder if there's a simple way to bypass the KH750 Sub without going into the app?

Some kind of a simple external crossover with a bypass option? Or some kind of A/B monitor switch lifehack?

It's crucial to me (or to my neighbors, to be correct) to have a Sub bypass option when working late. I really want to go the Neumann route with adding the Sub to my 120s, but might as well end up with an Eve TS108 just because of this little stupid thing.

Anyone? Thanks!
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #111
SRS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangear View Post
I wonder if there's a simple way to bypass the KH750 Sub without going into the app?

Some kind of a simple external crossover with a bypass option? Or some kind of A/B monitor switch lifehack?

It's crucial to me (or to my neighbors, to be correct) to have a Sub bypass option when working late. I really want to go the Neumann route with adding the Sub to my 120s, but might as well end up with an Eve TS108 just because of this little stupid thing.

Anyone? Thanks!
Most monitor controllers allow sub on/off switching.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRS View Post
Most monitor controllers allow sub on/off switching.
That means that the speakers would be fed directly from the controller and not high-passed by the sub.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #113
SRS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangear View Post
That means that the speakers would be fed directly from the controller and not high-passed by the sub.
Yes. If you are only feeding your sub and mains with one signal it could be problematic. But if you feed your sub a separate signal then it can work well. Some controllers can do the filtering for you. Some consoles do as well. My XL Desk does filtering at 80Hz when the sub is engaged on the console and when it is turned off, the filter is off.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRS View Post
Yes. If you are only feeding your sub and mains with one signal it could be problematic. But if you feed your sub a separate signal then it can work well. Some controllers can do the filtering for you. Some consoles do as well. My XL Desk does filtering at 80Hz when the sub is engaged on the console and when it is turned off, the filter is off.
Thanks, mate.

Getting a console solely for the crossover function is a kind of overkill for me

Meanwhile I've found a simple bypass workaround if anyone's interested. A monitor switcher at the beginning and a signal combiner at the end do the job.

But actually, the sub has arrived and the sound is SOOOO much nicer than I've expected. It gives a complete picture in such a defined and non-intrusive way which makes me think that I won't need to bypass it

By the way, KH-120s sound noticeably better when hi-passed, with a much wider stereo image and more clarity and space in the mids. You can feel the woofers moving with lots of ease and speed.
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