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Foo Fighters Everlong: Inside the song (w/ Warren Huart and Bradley Cook) Reverb & Delay Plugins
Old 21st March 2019
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Foo Fighters Everlong: Inside the song (w/ Warren Huart and Bradley Cook)

This record truly represented the peak and the end of an era in rock record production. Real performances, real instruments, real room sounds, real hardware, dynamics, no quantization, no pitch correction, no drum sample replacement, no outside guitarists adding 15 layers of crap, and a minimal track count. I don't recall anyone complaining about how records sounded at that time. Look at their smiles starting at 9:54 as they listen to what real drums sound like. Just goes to show you don't need drum samples to make a huge sounding record. Check the link below.

YouTube
Old 21st March 2019
  #2
1997 was a healthy time for music.
Old 21st March 2019
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

And it continues to hold up. My car is 5 months old and has a pretty decent audio setup. I played many different styles of music through it (because I’m a nerd) and everlong sounds better or equal than anything else I tried.
Old 21st March 2019
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

Yea, 1992-2000ish..great songs and great sounding
artists. Things started to go south around 2004ish?
Old 21st March 2019
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Yeah I would say around the time that computers replaced the tape machines is when things went south. People had access to unlimited tracks so they used unlimited tracks. Why commit to a sound when you have unlimited tracks? Why try composing a great signature riff or second guitar part when you can overlay multiple guitar lines/textures that end up being uninteresting, weak, and impossible to pull off live as a band. Auto-tune became prevalent. Drum quantization and drum-a-gog sample replacement became commonplace. Copy-and-paste was all too easy so why bother recording another chorus when you can paste in an earlier one. Software plug-ins and emulations of real outboard gear made their way into the mix. Computers moved the recording process from the open and collaborative professional studio to the isolated home studio. Recall became easy so people that really had no business making judgement calls began requesting changes; now fast recall is expected which drives ITB mixing. The loudness wars got out of control with mastering engineers completely removing dynamics from the mix.

A few years ago at NAMM a well-known producer with a great past was presenting new work and playing the tracks to a song they were working on. Some of the tracks were seriously chopped up - edits everywhere. Someone in the audience asked what those highly segmented tracks were, and they were drums. Every drum hit was sliced, shifted, and perfectly quantized. What happened to capturing great performances? The tone itself was just awful. Contrast that with the great sounding kit/room and performance captured above.

The same could be said in part with regard to the film industry. When computers and non-linear digital editing started gaining traction, movies had changed as well. There seemed to be a greater focus on digital special effects vs story. Action scenes contained way more camera angles than necessary, and shots were cut too fast - in part due to the fact that frame level editing was now possible and easy. I remember not being able to watch certain action scenes because of how fast shots were cut. That trend seemed to die down though.

Many things in life go through cycles, and I am optimistic that at some point, the record making process will come full circle and return to its roots.

Last edited by UGP; 21st March 2019 at 11:56 PM..
Old 22nd March 2019
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGP View Post
Yeah I would say around the time that computers replaced the tape machines is when things went south. People had access to unlimited tracks so they used unlimited tracks. Why commit to a sound when you have unlimited tracks? Why try composing a great signature riff or second guitar part when you can overlay multiple guitar lines/textures that end up being uninteresting, weak, and impossible to pull off live as a band. Auto-tune became prevalent. Drum quantization and drum-a-gog sample replacement became commonplace. Copy-and-paste was all too easy so why bother recording another chorus when you can paste in an earlier one. Software plug-ins and emulations of real outboard gear made their way into the mix. Computers moved the recording process from the open and collaborative professional studio to the isolated home studio. Recall became easy so people that really had no business making judgement calls began requesting changes; now fast recall is expected which drives ITB mixing. The loudness wars got out of control with mastering engineers completely removing dynamics from the mix.

A few years ago at NAMM a well-known producer with a great past was presenting new work and playing the tracks to a song they were working on. Some of the tracks were seriously chopped up - edits everywhere. Someone in the audience asked what those highly segmented tracks were, and they were drums. Every drum hit was sliced, shifted, and perfectly quantized. What happened to capturing great performances? The tone itself was just awful. Contrast that with the great sounding kit/room and performance captured above.

The same could be said in part with regard to the film industry. When computers and non-linear digital editing started gaining traction, movies had changed as well. There seemed to be a greater focus on digital special effects vs story. Action scenes contained way more camera angles than necessary, and shots were cut too fast - in part due to the fact that frame level editing was now possible and easy. I remember not being able to watch certain action scenes because of how fast shots were cut. That trend seemed to die down though.

Many things in life go through cycles, and I am optimistic that at some point, the record making process will come full circle and return to its roots.
Tastes change too. Some of my favourite (rock) records wouldn’t have been possible without the use of computers.

I don’t deny that some records of this era sound outstanding. Some don’t. Some to me sound a bit weak compared to what you can achieve now (had to work on some early Silverchair a while back - Frogstimo has not aged well sonically!).

You can use technology or you can let it use you. I don’t deny that some get carried away, or that some styles simply need self restraint, but there’s some great sounding sample replaced/quantised records. Slipknot’s “All Hope is Gone” sounds great in its genre to me, and I think Royal Blood sound huge.

I’m in 2 minds on the recall thing. I personally do better mixes when I can let things sit and come back to them, annoying as repeated pointless recalls can be.
Old 22nd March 2019
  #7
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IanBSC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Tastes change too. Some of my favourite (rock) records wouldn’t have been possible without the use of computers.

I don’t deny that some records of this era sound outstanding. Some don’t. Some to me sound a bit weak compared to what you can achieve now (had to work on some early Silverchair a while back - Frogstimo has not aged well sonically!).

You can use technology or you can let it use you. I don’t deny that some get carried away, or that some styles simply need self restraint, but there’s some great sounding sample replaced/quantised records. Slipknot’s “All Hope is Gone” sounds great in its genre to me, and I think Royal Blood sound huge.

I’m in 2 minds on the recall thing. I personally do better mixes when I can let things sit and come back to them, annoying as repeated pointless recalls can be.
Frogstomp still sounds alright to me except all that high hat and thin kick. The rawness works.
Old 22nd March 2019
  #8
Gear Nut
 

I agree Frogstomp was more of a raw sound, versus Neon Ballroom which was more polished. We used to crank up ‘Pure Massacre’ when it came on the radio. Love the loud heavy guitars and drop-D tuning. The album was quite remarkable for a band of 15 year old kids.
Old 22nd March 2019
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanBSC View Post
Frogstomp still sounds alright to me except all that high hat and thin kick. The rawness works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UGP View Post
I agree Frogstomp was more of a raw sound, versus Neon Ballroom which was more polished. We used to crank up ‘Pure Massacre’ when it came on the radio. Love the loud heavy guitars and drop-D tuning. The album was quite remarkable for a band of 15 year old kids.
Sure, but it's an example of stuff you could do better with a little time/revisiting.

But I find lots of records of that era don't sound quite as good as we remember - for example Pearl Jam's first record is a bit wobbly and separated sounding to me now.

and yes Silverchair were pretty powerful especially for their age. Caveman shirley probably didn't hurt!
Old 22nd March 2019
  #10
Warren Huart is a gem of a human being.
Old 22nd March 2019
  #11
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Sure, but it's an example of stuff you could do better with a little time/revisiting.

But I find lots of records of that era don't sound quite as good as we remember - for example Pearl Jam's first record is a bit wobbly and separated sounding to me now.

and yes Silverchair were pretty powerful especially for their age. Caveman shirley probably didn't hurt!
I think Ten is a great album, but do agree that if I could change one thing it would be to roll back the reverb. It was released right before Nevermind broke though, which in turn changed how rock records sound by pushing everything upfront and in your face.

Yes Warren is great and I hope he continues the Inside the Song series. It is unique and offers a perspective you can’t find anywhere else.
Old 22nd March 2019
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Geoff_T's Avatar
 

RIP Alan Dickson with the wonderful studio (Grandmaster Recorders) he created with the all class A Neve 8028 console, Studer A827, and every piece of outboard you could ever need. No Pro Tools, No fader automation, just a band that could play instruments and sing (Foo Fighters) and Bradley Cook creating that memorable sound.

RIP Grandmaster Recording Studios... torn apart by developers.
Old 23rd March 2019
  #13
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Tubthumper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Caveman shirley probably didn't hurt!
I was living in Sydney when Kevin arrived and started cranking out those killer mixes. Suddenly, *finally*, local bands started sounding world class.

Exhibit B:

Old 23rd March 2019
  #14
Lives for gear
 
IanBSC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGP View Post
I think Ten is a great album, but do agree that if I could change one thing it would be to roll back the reverb. It was released right before Nevermind broke though, which in turn changed how rock records sound by pushing everything upfront and in your face.

Yes Warren is great and I hope he continues the Inside the Song series. It is unique and offers a perspective you can’t find anywhere else.
Brendan O'Brien actually remixed the whole thing a few years back, with less reverb, more guitars and much more compression. The irony to me is that the original sounds better in spite of the reverb because it isn't so loud and pumped up.
Old 23rd March 2019
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubthumper View Post
I was living in Sydney when Kevin arrived and started cranking out those killer mixes. Suddenly, *finally*, local bands started sounding world class.

Exhibit B:

I pass by his studio here almost every day - I live about 5 mins away. Keep meaning to drop him a line to say hi...although the blinds have been down for a few months so I’m not sure he’s here at the moment.

But I like to think we’ve got a few more guys doing mixes for local bands of a decent standard these days

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanBSC View Post
Brendan O'Brien actually remixed the whole thing a few years back, with less reverb, more guitars and much more compression. The irony to me is that the original sounds better in spite of the reverb because it isn't so loud and pumped up.
I think I generally like the “pumped up” thing though - I think the drums here sound a bit more tippy rally than they do in my head. That album simply isn’t as heavy as I remember it to be (especially compared to Nevermind, for example).
Old 23rd March 2019
  #16
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanBSC View Post
Brendan O'Brien actually remixed the whole thing a few years back, with less reverb, more guitars and much more compression. The irony to me is that the original sounds better in spite of the reverb because it isn't so loud and pumped up.
Thanks - I checked out the remix. I prefer the clarity and forwardness of the vocals in the remix, but agree with you that the drum pumping is too much for my taste.
Old 23rd March 2019
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
RIP Alan Dickson with the wonderful studio (Grandmaster Recorders) he created with the all class A Neve 8028 console, Studer A827, and every piece of outboard you could ever need. No Pro Tools, No fader automation, just a band that could play instruments and sing (Foo Fighters) and Bradley Cook creating that memorable sound.

RIP Grandmaster Recording Studios... torn apart by developers.
Too many studios have been torn down recently due to developers - The Magic Shop, Fantasy Studios, and of course Grandmaster Recorders. Owning the property vs renting it out offers protection from this but is not often a viable option, especially with the general decline in studio business. Studio West here in San Diego is perhaps one of the exceptions and noted having had one of their best years ever. This success is due in part to them branching out into offering Pro Tools and other classes, school tours, and even summer camps for youth to learn the trade.

RIP Alan Dickson and Grandmaster Recorders... There were some great albums made there.

Last edited by UGP; 23rd March 2019 at 09:32 AM..
Old 24th March 2019
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGP View Post
Too many studios have been torn down recently due to developers - The Magic Shop, Fantasy Studios, and of course Grandmaster Recorders. Owning the property vs renting it out offers protection from this but is not often a viable option, especially with the general decline in studio business. Studio West here in San Diego is perhaps one of the exceptions and noted having had one of their best years ever. This success is due in part to them branching out into offering Pro Tools and other classes, school tours, and even summer camps for youth to learn the trade.

RIP Alan Dickson and Grandmaster Recorders... There were some great albums made there.
Sadly, filling the lack of bookings with teaching courses for people to train for jobs that no longer exist in the same way isn’t what I’d call “best years ever”.

I’m in no way judging the studio for doing what they have to to stay open; merely commenting that it’s a survival tactic rather than a sign of business being good.

There’s also been numerous great studios gone (eg olympic in London) which were owned properties, but the value is simply more than its worth to keep the studio operating. It does I suppose put the control in the hands of the owner at least!
Old 24th March 2019
  #19
Gear Nut
 

Not everyone taking a Pro Tools class or attending summer recording camp has aspirations of making a career out of it. I wish I could have experienced something like their recording camp as a kid, just for the enjoyment of it. I’m willing to bet that some of those kids will go on to join bands and opt for the professional studio vs home studio experience when it comes time to record their tunes. The more people exposed to the professional studio experience the better.
Old 24th March 2019
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGP View Post
Not everyone taking a Pro Tools class or attending summer recording camp has aspirations of making a career out of it. I wish I could have experienced something like their recording camp as a kid, just for the enjoyment of it. I’m willing to bet that some of those kids will go on to join bands and opt for the professional studio vs home studio experience when it comes time to record their tunes. The more people exposed to the professional studio experience the better.
On that count I totally agree. It's more the idea that it's the "best year ever" because they're running lots of courses. Once upon a time they'd have been solidly booked with no option for running courses.
Old 24th March 2019
  #21
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UGP View Post
Yeah I would say around the time that computers replaced the tape machines is when things went south. People had access to unlimited tracks so they used unlimited tracks. Why commit to a sound when you have unlimited tracks? Why try composing a great signature riff or second guitar part when you can overlay multiple guitar lines/textures that end up being uninteresting, weak, and impossible to pull off live as a band. Auto-tune became prevalent. Drum quantization and drum-a-gog sample replacement became commonplace. Copy-and-paste was all too easy so why bother recording another chorus when you can paste in an earlier one. Software plug-ins and emulations of real outboard gear made their way into the mix. Computers moved the recording process from the open and collaborative professional studio to the isolated home studio. Recall became easy so people that really had no business making judgement calls began requesting changes; now fast recall is expected which drives ITB mixing. The loudness wars got out of control with mastering engineers completely removing dynamics from the mix.

A few years ago at NAMM a well-known producer with a great past was presenting new work and playing the tracks to a song they were working on. Some of the tracks were seriously chopped up - edits everywhere. Someone in the audience asked what those highly segmented tracks were, and they were drums. Every drum hit was sliced, shifted, and perfectly quantized. What happened to capturing great performances? The tone itself was just awful. Contrast that with the great sounding kit/room and performance captured above.

The same could be said in part with regard to the film industry. When computers and non-linear digital editing started gaining traction, movies had changed as well. There seemed to be a greater focus on digital special effects vs story. Action scenes contained way more camera angles than necessary, and shots were cut too fast - in part due to the fact that frame level editing was now possible and easy. I remember not being able to watch certain action scenes because of how fast shots were cut. That trend seemed to die down though.

Many things in life go through cycles, and I am optimistic that at some point, the record making process will come full circle and return to its roots.
Agree apart from the drum replacement part. I think it started much earlier. Andy Wallace 90s stuff such Nirvana and RATM is FULL of that...
Old 24th March 2019
  #22
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
On that count I totally agree. It's more the idea that it's the "best year ever" because they're running lots of courses. Once upon a time they'd have been solidly booked with no option for running courses.
The classes are in a lab separate from the studios. I’ve been in the studios while classes were going on independently.
Old 24th March 2019
  #23
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioloud View Post
Agree apart from the drum replacement part. I think it started much earlier. Andy Wallace 90s stuff such Nirvana and RATM is FULL of that...
Interesting. Do you know if he was triggering the samples somehow or just manually spliced them in?
Old 24th March 2019
  #24
Lives for gear
 
chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UGP View Post
This record truly represented the peak and the end of an era in rock record production. Real performances, real instruments, real room sounds, real hardware, dynamics, no quantization, no pitch correction, no drum sample replacement, no outside guitarists adding 15 layers of crap, and a minimal track count. I don't recall anyone complaining about how records sounded at that time. Look at their smiles starting at 9:54 as they listen to what real drums sound like. Just goes to show you don't need drum samples to make a huge sounding record. Check the link below.

YouTube
are you serious? For starters Grohl played drums, guitar and sang on the record. So how is that a real band performance?
In reality it's a studio record with loads of overdubs. There are lots of records that came out after that sound much better and the bands actually performed live in the studio. I think it dangerous to suggest that a mediocre band such as the foofighters represent some pinnacle in songwriting and production. It belittles the efforts of the truly talented artists from the 90s era.
Old 24th March 2019
  #25
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
are you serious?
Looking back this was a rather bold and highly subjective claim that I should have stated differently. Everyone has different taste and preferences. But to me personally, in terms of a modern rock sound, this period in time and album was it for reasons explained throughout the thread. Solid continuous performances, natural and forward sounding, limited tracks and commitment to a sound, room vs artificial ambience, no auto-tune or gimmicks, pre-loudness wars, and great songs. Look at their smiles in the video as they listen to the great sounding non sample-replaced/quantized drum kit - they know they are listening to something from a by-gone era.

So let’s keep this thread going without getting into a debate involving personal opinions of what is ‘best’. What were some of the albums and elements of the recording/mixing process that stood out for you in this era?

Last edited by UGP; 24th March 2019 at 07:45 PM..
Old 24th March 2019
  #26
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chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UGP View Post
in terms of a modern rock sound, this was it for me for reasons explained through the thread.
20+ years ago is not a modern rock sound. That is more classic rock.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UGP View Post
Solid continuous performances, natural and forward sounding, room vs artificial ambience, limited tracks, no auto-tune or gimmicks, pre-loudness wars, and great songs. Look at their smiles in the video as they listen to the great sounding non sample-replaced/quantized drum kit - they know they are listening to something from a by-gone era.
loads of newer bands record this way. You are just not familiar with them. However later foo fighters records are very gimmicky. They obviously quantize and use pitch correction and do lots of studio trickery. Which is ok IMO.


As far it being the "end of an era in rock record production" is absolutely ludicrous. Bands like Audioslave, Incubus, Soundgarden had much better sounding records in that era and they still do in more recent times. I can name a 100 bands that put out better sounding records than foo fighters did in the later 90s. None have pitch correction or studio trickery either. You are not being realistic. Even Medicore bands like Green Day had better sounding records than the foo-fighters.
Old 24th March 2019
  #27
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Come one!!!!

Don’t tell me “monkey wrench” isn’t isnt half a ball tearing rock mix???

Still stands the test of time and Chris Sheldon is a total gent and killed it on this record amongst many others he’s worked on.

Wiggy
Old 24th March 2019
  #28
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut View Post
Come one!!!!

Don’t tell me “monkey wrench” isn’t isnt half a ball tearing rock mix???

Still stands the test of time and Chris Sheldon is a total gent and killed it on this record amongst many others he’s worked on.

Wiggy
Back in high school I remember the cheerleaders doing a routine to Monkey Wrench at the school pep rally. Most unexpected but it was awesome and the school went nuts.
Old 25th March 2019
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGP View Post
The classes are in a lab separate from the studios. I’ve been in the studios while classes were going on independently.
Well, that’s not what you said! It’s really separate businesses though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UGP View Post
Interesting. Do you know if he was triggering the samples somehow or just manually spliced them in?
Triggering via an AMS delay was the usual method back then. There’s also a way to use triggers via midi/also sampler. Difficult to manually “splice” anything in on tape!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut View Post
Come one!!!!

Don’t tell me “monkey wrench” isn’t isnt half a ball tearing rock mix???

Still stands the test of time and Chris Sheldon is a total gent and killed it on this record amongst many others he’s worked on.

Wiggy
Seconded. Chris is a great great bloke!
Old 25th March 2019
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UGP View Post
Real performances, real instruments, real room sounds, real hardware, dynamics, no quantization, no pitch correction, no drum sample replacement, no outside guitarists adding 15 layers of crap, and a minimal track count.

What is this... this.... Heresy you speak of???

Thanks for sharing.
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