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NT2 Better than P12? Help me find my vocal mic.
Old 24th May 2007
  #1
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lord_bunny's Avatar
 

NT2 Better than P12? Help me find my vocal mic.

Provocative title? Yep. But for this mic shoot-out I have clips with tight controls on all the variables. I just bought a Peluso P12 in the hopes of catching some of the same mojo that a C12 VR was givin' me last year when I borrowed one.

I did the mic shootout between the LDC's I have on hand (414b-uls, Rode NT2 and the Peluso) and the C12 vr recoring I've got. All four were recorded in the same room with the same preamp (Aphex 1100 tube pre).

Please give me your input. I've got a few days to return the P12, and would either like to try something else in that line or save for a more expensive mic. Keep in mind I love the way the C12 breaks up a bit, it's full highs but it's absent of sibilance issues. I found that the P12 didn't offer any of that, and if fact sounded no better than my Rode NT2(the original) that I bought for $300!

I'm not hacking on Peluso, the thing looks great, it's a decent sounding mic as you'll hear... but am I missing something? I've never used the classic C12, but I imagine that the original didn't have the sibilance issues. The sibilance thing is what really separates the chinese and australian mic's from the german models IMO.

(these vocal clips are from my last record www.myspace.com/adamminer)
Attached Files

NT2-NT2.mp3 (615.1 KB, 398 views)

P12-P12.mp3 (607.0 KB, 405 views)

C12-C12.mp3 (521.5 KB, 375 views)

414B-ULS-414B-ULS.mp3 (612.6 KB, 328 views)

Old 24th May 2007
  #2
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i always thought the original nt2 was a pretty decent mic. also, the original classic. haven't heard any of the new line of rode mics though. interesting samples. now that peluso has gotten their share of "wow, what a fantastic mic" hype, maybe we'll start to see some more posts like this one.

bill
Old 24th May 2007
  #3
I took a listen to the NT2, P12, and the C12 files you posted and the P12 is far and away the best mic in those examples. The NT2 has a definite mid freq. dip which makes it sound a bit nicer but it's not going to sound as great when it comes to a dense mix because there's no punch.

The P12 is an almost exact recreation of the original AKG C12 (not the C12 VR which most people agree sounds, well, not so great). You had the air, punch and beauty of the voice without a doubt in that P12 example.

The C12 (which I'm guessing was the VR you mentioned borrowing) displayed the characteristics I would expect (low end hyped up, dips in the mids, etc.). It sounded better than the NT2 to me, but I still say the P12 was the best.

Could this be a room issue that you are experiencing where the nulls in the room are causing you to think that the P12 isn't working for you? I know of a lot of engineers who are absolutely in love with the P12 (one of which I know for a fact bought a C12 VR and returned it the following day).

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm simply offering suggestions that may attribute to the anomalies you are experiencing with the P12. I certainly didn't hear harsh sibilance in your example.
Old 24th May 2007
  #4
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drmmrboy's Avatar
 

I've used a B-ULS, NT2, and U99 on the same vocalist over the years. NT2 was solid w/ him, U99 produced sibilance, & the B-ULS was by far the best match for him. Is that to say the U99 is a lesser mic? Not at all. By moving the mic, &/or a little deessing, the vocal was great, and had a noticeable quality that the others didn't. The sibilance was him, not necessarily the mic.

If the mic is mainly for you, & it doesn't work with your voice.. Give something else a try.
Old 24th May 2007
  #5
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lowfreq33's Avatar
 

Here's an idea. Decide which mic you like the best. Use that mic. Don't worry about what I think, because it's not my mic or my voice. I get the point of your post, but I see too many people on the forum looking for validation from others, when your own opinion is probably the most important one.
Old 24th May 2007
  #6
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ioanni's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfreq33 View Post
Here's an idea. Decide which mic you like the best. Use that mic. Don't worry about what I think, because it's not my mic or my voice. I get the point of your post, but I see too many people on the forum looking for validation from others, when your own opinion is probably the most important one.
great post!
Old 24th May 2007
  #7
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lpkyer's Avatar
 

the c12 sounded the most "mixable" to me. the nt2 is just way too hyped...and the peluso reminds me A LOT of the apex 460 which I modded....I'd send it back.
Old 24th May 2007
  #8
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lord_bunny's Avatar
 

bump
Old 24th May 2007
  #9
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lord_bunny's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfreq33 View Post
Here's an idea. Decide which mic you like the best. Use that mic. Don't worry about what I think, because it's not my mic or my voice. I get the point of your post, but I see too many people on the forum looking for validation from others, when your own opinion is probably the most important one.
I really appreciate your opinion about me asking people's opinion (sarcasm). I found your post condecending.

As for the thoughtful replies, thank you very much. I would like to add that people lean into the subjective/objective camps regarding audio. I suppose I'm a little more objective. I do believe there are empirical differences, and if can get a consensus of what other people are hearing, I'm going to take that into account.

The reason a good studio has a various LDC's lying around is because some microphones work better for a voice than others. I've seen situations where multiple people in the room went 'ahhh' after that right mic was chosen, because it just made sense to all ears present.

Anyway, I'm going to give another Peluso model a shot. I do love the character of the C12, and if anyone has a suggestion of a mic that also has that general quality.. i'm all ears.
Old 25th May 2007
  #10
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roger's Avatar
 

please don't start another rode=hyped line! the nt2 is not really a 'rode' mic as such......it is a chinese mic bought for dirt cheap by mr freedman and mod'ed en mass (improved/quiter circuitry etc), stamped with the logo and sold by the absolute truck load.....it is the mic that made the rode company an international player. it is not an australian made rode mic with that characteristic 'hyped' sound that so many love to hate.......it is a nice mic and sounds very good on many vocalists and tends to sit very well - i don't have mine any more...sold it to my little bro for $100 - i sometimes hear some of the stuff he has recorded with it and i think 'dang - that sounds lovely'!

if you aren't stoked with the peluso then get something different....a new piece of gear should inspire out of the box....if not, then get something that does - otherwise it will just sit around and won't earn it's keep.
Old 25th May 2007
  #11
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Jaguar Dreams's Avatar
 

P12

Listened to the clips. The P12 hit me right away as being the superior track. Is it the mc or the performance, I don't know. But, that clip hit me in 2 seconds in a "oh yeah" sort of way the others did not. Relistened to them blind, exact same response.

Seems like with LDC vocal mics the real test is whether, when the vocal is in the mix, does it make its own space, and give you the "oh yeah" feeling? I bet the Peluso will make your life a lot easier in that regard.

I'm not necessarily a Rode hater either, btw...

Cheers,
Jaguar
Old 25th May 2007
  #12
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lord_bunny's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar Dreams View Post
Listened to the clips. The P12 hit me right away as being the superior track. Is it the mc or the performance, I don't know. But, that clip hit me in 2 seconds in a "oh yeah" sort of way the others did not. Relistened to them blind, exact same response.

Seems like with LDC vocal mics the real test is whether, when the vocal is in the mix, does it make its own space, and give you the "oh yeah" feeling? I bet the Peluso will make your life a lot easier in that regard.

I'm not necessarily a Rode hater either, btw...

Cheers,
Jaguar
Jaguar, thanks for the advice. I did just that. The differences between the mic's with some compression, eq and verb are a revelation to me. I think the subtlties we're just too subtle beforehand, and now I can really hear that of all of them, the P12 comes forward the most as the least coloured... and compressing them all to the same degree showed that it also retained it's detail without "sounding" compressed in a way the NT2 couldn't.

It's still more sibilant than the vr, however, in the mix, the vr sounds like it's got a blanket over it in comparison. The NT2 has more low's and highs than the C12 but they all sound... a little to out of the picture vs. the P12. I can post these to anyone who is interested.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me, it is very appreciated.
Old 25th May 2007
  #13
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_bunny View Post
Jaguar, thanks for the advice. I did just that. The differences between the mic's with some compression, eq and verb are a revelation to me. I think the subtlties we're just too subtle beforehand, and now I can really hear that of all of them, the P12 comes forward the most as the least coloured... and compressing them all to the same degree showed that it also retained it's detail without "sounding" compressed in a way the NT2 couldn't.

It's still more sibilant than the vr, however, in the mix, the vr sounds like it's got a blanket over it in comparison. The NT2 has more low's and highs than the C12 but they all sound... a little to out of the picture vs. the P12. I can post these to anyone who is interested.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me, it is very appreciated.
Can you please post the clips? I enjoyed your songs on Myspace.
Old 25th May 2007
  #14
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Hey hey,

These vocal clips are compressed the same (UAD LA2A) and similarily e.q.'d (slight dip at 1k to reduce nasalness and a slight 2k presence boost with the UAD Pultec Pro).

The fat is now in the fire.
Attached Files
Old 25th May 2007
  #15
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gm5k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_bunny View Post
Hey hey,

These vocal clips are compressed the same (UAD LA2A) and similarily e.q.'d (slight dip at 1k to reduce nasalness and a slight 2k presence boost with the UAD Pultec Pro).

The fat is now in the fire.
C12 seems to blend w/ the mix best for me. NT2 is rather impressive as well at $300...the peluso seems completely disconnected from the song, sitting on top of the mix rather than sitting in it.
Old 25th May 2007
  #16
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It could be attributed to all that high end, i intentionally had them at the same rms level as opposed to setting them into the mix, i suppose because i wanted to hear how much they poke out... it seems like I could set the P12 into the mix more and get away with it. It is funny that the NT2 isn't a real stinker. The laws between the rich and the poor are perhaps reversed in gearslut land? Perhpas the poor are getting richer, and the rich are getting poorer... wait, thats how the whole music industry is!
Old 26th May 2007
  #17
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bumper
Old 26th May 2007
  #18
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bcgood's Avatar
 

These comments are for your first post samples.

The C12 stands out as sounding the best by far. It sounds smooth and well rounded.

The NT2 probably takes 2nd. I would put a nylon pop screen in front of it to mellow it out a little and maybe accentuate some tube warmth to round out the bottom end.

The other mics sounded pretty bad. The only thing I can think is that the people who are recommending the other mics must sell them or something. Or you did something strange or different with them. I'm sure they could sound fine in there own right in maybe a different set up.heh

bcgood
Old 27th May 2007
  #19
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thermos's Avatar
Thanks for posting! Interesting comparison. Although the c-12 probably doesn't sound like a vintage c-12, it works in the track the best. Perhaps a bit veiled, but still blends well. I don't think I would believe the claims that the P-12 sounds just like a C-12 anymore. It just seems to miss something. The rode is ok actually, not great. But definitely better than the AKG (clear loser).
Old 27th May 2007
  #20
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BUT, I wouldn't be suprized if you had sibilance issues with a vintage C-12. I used an old 414 (the silver EB one with the C-12 capsule) and indeed had sibilance issues galore with it.
Old 27th May 2007
  #21
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To me, the P12 sounded more 3D, like it would be good for a pop track.
The C12 sounded more mellow, like for a Norah Jones acoustic thing
The NT2 sounded small and undefined
These were the clips from the second batch, in the mix, (in front of the mix, actaully.) It would have been interesting to hear the mics down in the mix where they'd be for that style of music, but I think the P12 still would have sounded the best.
Nice tune, by the way.
Old 27th May 2007
  #22
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AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

The NT2 was the 1st mic i bought many many years ago, somehow i made it work back theN but i NEVER use that mic anymore, to thin and real high shelf noise. Go with anything else, no NT2.
Old 27th May 2007
  #23
Gear Maniac
 

P12 is imho by far the best solo clip for the specific voice given in examples. But then, c12 sits the best in the mix(surprise on my side- I never liked it to much for vocals).
Old 28th May 2007
  #24
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erock's Avatar
 

c12 sits better in the mix. but I like the tone of the p12 better. More airy.

I'm glad I got to hear a sample of the p12, I really really like it.


Good vibrato, by the way.
Old 28th May 2007
  #25
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Thanks everyone for your insights and observations. I'm going to keep the P12. Oddly enough, after a few days I really got used to how airy it was. I have a lot of midrange in my voice, it's very pokey... so the P12 I found seemed to accentuate the right parts of my voice.

The C12 VR does sit better in the mix, but I get the impression that I would be happier stacking harmonies with the P12. I generally do 8 tracks of vocals in most of my tunes, and the C12 vr got a little muddled in the fray.

We may be approaching a tipping point in regards to this notion that one needs a certain name brand in order to attract clientele. Everyone seems suprised at how the NT2 sounds, and I'm suprised at your suprise, because I have grown to hate that mic on my voice. I'd like to hear someone compare it to an 87, because my limited experience with 87's is that they have that forward mid character as well.

Thanks again for the input as well as your kind comments regarding the song.
Old 21st April 2017
  #26
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So 10 years on, how do you feel about the p12 now? Are you still using it? Still happy with it? What does it not do well? Have you found anything better?

Thanks for your time
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