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ATC 110, 25A / Amphion One18 / Barefoot M45, Micromain45 / Focal Twin / Kii Three Studio Monitors
Old 23rd March 2019
  #91
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinococcus View Post
Atom .. Psi audio.
The state of the art is analog. Dsp is a cheap way to build a crossover. It's a great way to improve the financial margin by selling a supposedly great improvement costing nothing.
The labor time is not in a dsp, it's in the measurements time.
This past time is the same for all speakers with the same design.
All dsp in a kii have the same software. It costs peanuts.

The buyer buy the eyes near the logo brand. What is in the speaker, he does not care.
i pretty much don't care about the manufacturers costs, win margin etc. as long as they offer a viable product for a reasonable price.

the thing is that any speaker, regardless of design, can only ever perform as good as the room allows it to perform - but dsp allows for optimum adjustment/correction.

- want to add a sub (or two) and change the x-overs of the tops or get some tilt between sub(s) and tops? dsp does it!
- want to change distance between speakers and want to adapt hpf for optimum coupling of lf woofers? dsp does it!
- want to change fr response either to please folks in the back of the room, to get a fr of choice or to compensate when listening a lower levels? dsp does it!
- i could go on...

imo it's plain silly NOT to use dsp in 2019 - actually for many years now...



p.s. besides tad/augspurger, tannoy, genelec, k+h/neumann, quested, fostex etc. i do have a pair of psi in one of my rooms - and use a speaker processors to adjust their performance as of all my other speaker systems!

p.p.s. dsp allows for different speakers to measure almost the same - nevertheless, it's still nice to use more than one system (preferably of vastly different design: horn/versus directly radiating tweeter, broadband vs 2-way, 2-way plus sub versus 3-way full range, small versus large lf diameter etc.) as they will behave/react (and translate, depending on what listening environment you're aiming at) quite differently...

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 23rd March 2019 at 09:36 AM.. Reason: p.s. and p.p.s. added
Old 23rd March 2019
  #92
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
i pretty much don't care about the manufacturers costs, win margin etc. as long as they offer a viable product for a reasonable price.

the thing is that any speaker, regardless of design, can only ever perform as good as the room allows it to perform - but dsp allows for optimum adjustment/correction.

- want to add a sub (or two) and change the x-overs of the tops or get some tilt between sub(s) and tops? dsp does it!
- want to change distance between speakers and want to adapt hpf for optimum coupling of lf woofers? dsp does it!
- want to change fr response either to please folks in the back of the room, to get a fr of choice or to compensate when listening a lower levels? dsp does it!
- i could go on...

imo it's plain silly NOT to use dsp in 2019 - actually for many years now...



p.s. besides tad/augspurger, tannoy, genelec, k+h/neumann, quested, fostex etc. i do have a pair of psi in one of my rooms - and use a speaker processors to adjust their performance as of all my other speaker systems!

p.p.s. dsp allows for different speakers to measure almost the same - nevertheless, it's still nice to use more than one system (preferably of vastly different design: horn/versus directly radiating tweeter, broadband vs 2-way, 2-way plus sub versus 3-way full range, small versus large lf diameter etc.) as they will behave/react (and translate, depending on what listening environment you're aiming at) quite differently...
In 2017, trump was planet chief. The arguments of the numbers, is a fashion who works.


It's new, it's better, a joke.
Old 23rd March 2019
  #93
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinococcus View Post
In 2017, trump was planet chief. The arguments of the numbers, is a fashion who works.

It's new, it's better, a joke.
the use of dsp to correct speaker response in neither new nor is it a joke - and got nothing to do with your view on politics.

frankly, you better get off this and many other threads if you're here just for trolling: you seem to have no idea what dsp can do and how it's getting used!
Old 23rd March 2019
  #94
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Jantex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F View Post
What will be interesting is when the next generation of DSP speakers start coming out, and they no doubt will be much improved compared to the current line up. That’s when you may find the people on the DSP bandwagon suddenly upgrading and may be forced to admit that the technology is at early stages and could be improved.
I’ve changed to DSP powered soeakers for a reason...because they make me do better translating work more efficiently. So I don’t see any desire to change anything in the future. What works today eill also work for me tomorrow. I just know I would nit go back to ATCs or Amphions from Genelecs or D&Ds for my working style.
Old 23rd March 2019
  #95
Lives for gear
When i use a rabbit foot's my mixe translate better.
Old 23rd March 2019
  #96
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
the use of dsp to correct speaker response in neither new nor is it a joke - and got nothing to do with your view on politics.

frankly, you better get off this and many other threads if you're here just for trolling: you seem to have no idea what dsp can do and how it's getting used!
By the guy who explains to Jens Eklund the speaker design.
By the guy who has hundred or thousand rooms for all the speakers he has
By the guy who equalize a psi audio
I'm proud to be call troll by the king of troll.
Old 23rd March 2019
  #97
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DougS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F View Post
What will be interesting is when the next generation of DSP speakers start coming out, and they no doubt will be much improved compared to the current line up. That’s when you may find the people on the DSP bandwagon suddenly upgrading and may be forced to admit that the technology is at early stages and could be improved.
Your post confuses me.

Is someone suggesting that DSP has reached its peak as far as performance in speakers. I've seen this argument made for analog speakers but clearly DSP is a new frontier and will improve. New technologies always improve - especially in the early stages of their development.

I see folks arguing the opposite - arguing that DSP speakers are a fad that will disappear....and therefore never improve.

I love my Genelec Ones - their DSP adds a lot. But I certainly don't expect the technology of using DSP in speakers to stay static. That's one of the major benefits of digital technology in general - the manufacturer can iterate faster and therefore improve their product over subsequent upgrades/versions faster than analog based products.
Old 23rd March 2019
  #98
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougS View Post
Your post confuses me.

Is someone suggesting that DSP has reached its peak as far as performance in speakers. I've seen this argument made for analog speakers but clearly DSP is a new frontier and will improve. New technologies always improve - especially in the early stages of their development.

I see folks arguing the opposite - arguing that DSP speakers are a fad that will disappear....and therefore never improve.

I love my Genelec Ones - their DSP adds a lot. But I certainly don't expect the technology of using DSP in speakers to stay static. That's one of the major benefits of digital technology in general - the manufacturer can iterate faster and therefore improve their product over subsequent upgrades/versions faster than analog based products.
New?



Digidesign in 2005 use dsp in their speaker.

Minidsp 2010
Ks digital
k+h o500 in 2000
Dynaudio air 25
Svs sub

Twenty years, both say an old technology.
Old 23rd March 2019
  #99
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DougS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinococcus View Post
New?



Digidesign in 2005 use dsp in their speaker.

Minidsp 2010
Ks digital
k+h o500 in 2000
Dynaudio air 25
Svs sub

Twenty years, both say an old technology.
So they have a Twenty Year history of improvement. Good track record.
Old 23rd March 2019
  #100
Gear Addict
 
puriteaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinococcus View Post
New?



Digidesign in 2005 use dsp in their speaker.

Minidsp 2010
Ks digital
k+h o500 in 2000
Dynaudio air 25
Svs sub

Twenty years, both say an old technology.
Meridian, Boothroyd/Stuart introduced DSP into their actives D6000 in the early 90’s.
Keith
Old 24th March 2019
  #101
Lives for gear
 
Ben F's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougS View Post
Your post confuses me.

Is someone suggesting that DSP has reached its peak as far as performance in speakers. I've seen this argument made for analog speakers but clearly DSP is a new frontier and will improve. New technologies always improve - especially in the early stages of their development.

I see folks arguing the opposite - arguing that DSP speakers are a fad that will disappear....and therefore never improve.

I love my Genelec Ones - their DSP adds a lot. But I certainly don't expect the technology of using DSP in speakers to stay static. That's one of the major benefits of digital technology in general - the manufacturer can iterate faster and therefore improve their product over subsequent upgrades/versions faster than analog based products.
That’s what I’m saying, DSP in speakers is in its infancy. If people are saying it sounds better than an analogue crossover now, then how are they going to sell the next improvement in DSP? There clearly is still a way to go.

Unfortunately I’m one of those people that find the Genelec sound very unnatural, and using DSP for room correction on speakers quite noticeable. I’d rather have the room with its flaws and get used to it. When I hear DSP that is totally transparent I’ll change my mind.
Old 24th March 2019
  #102
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by puriteaudio View Post
Meridian, Boothroyd/Stuart introduced DSP into their actives D6000 in the early 90’s.
Keith
+1
Old 24th March 2019
  #103
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

DSP is new technology so there are bound to improvements.. no one is using an Apple 2E for protools.

This is the bleeding edge of technology and is called that for a reason as the tech will ramp up in adoption, become better performance wise and cheaper too!
Old 24th March 2019
  #104
Lives for gear
-100
Old 24th March 2019
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F View Post
That’s what I’m saying, DSP in speakers is in its infancy. If people are saying it sounds better than an analogue crossover now, then how are they going to sell the next improvement in DSP? There clearly is still a way to go...
while this may be true for dsp built into speakers, it's certainly not the case for dedicated speaker controllers which have been around since the 90-ties - current models of lake lm processors by far outperform any built-in solution i came across so far.

and i don't think anybody claims that they sound better than analog circuits, but they offer many more options/flexibility!

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 24th March 2019 at 12:58 PM..
Old 24th March 2019
  #107
Gear Head
 

Lenny loves his ATCs!
"ATC. Always The Champion. I will not record without them. The best studio monitors. Period." ~ Lenny Kravitz

I believe there will always be room for good monitors be it DSP aided/driven or analog.

I discovered my first ATC actives way back in 1998, namely the SCM 20A Pros (still have them!).
I have been using ATCs ever since. I have heard the Kiis and D&Ds at Keith's place, and both are excellent speakers but I personally prefer the sound of my ATCs for their excellent headroom, magical midrange, sound stage and well controlled bass.

Thanks for mixing, mastering and making all the music we enjoy listening to.

Best.
Mev
Old 24th March 2019
  #108
Lives for gear
How is possible to confound the beloved with a box in wood?

Sigmund help us!
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