The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Still need a flexible, versatile hardware reverb.
Old 4th March 2019
  #1
Lives for gear
 
wallyburger's Avatar
 

Still need a flexible, versatile hardware reverb.

I'm still looking for a decent hardware reverb. First of all, I'm not looking to recreate any "classic" sounds. I've owned Lexicons, 224/PCM70, and Eventides, Space/H3000, and they are great, but one trick ponies for me. Plus, most of those broke down, and are now extremely unreliable, hence my new search.
My music is abstract electronic and acoustic, piano and percussion, and I'm not after one particular reverb sound exclusively, I like to use that grainy chorus tail on electronics, but on acoustic sounds I like a contrast, extremely realistic small/medium halls. Eventides just can't do "extremely realistic" and Lexicons don't do swept reverbs like an Eventide, so what im looking for is a sort of all in one box, probably a pointless exercise, and my feeling is I'll probably have to go for more than one box on this one.
Any ideas and suggestions welcome.....
Old 4th March 2019
  #2
Lives for gear
 
AlexK's Avatar
 

Bricasti?
Old 4th March 2019
  #3
Lives for gear
 

i think there is no way around having several devices from various manufactures: they all do something others cannot provide, regardless of price.

i'm using a mix of quantec, sony, tc, lex, eventide and yamaha here...
Old 4th March 2019
  #4
Lives for gear
 
wallyburger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
i think there is no way around having several devices from various manufactures: they all do something others cannot provide, regardless of price.

i'm using a mix of quantec, sony, tc, lex, eventide and yamaha here...
Yes, I thought so!
I may keep my Eventide Space and augment it with a TCM4000/PCM92.
Bricasti is an unknown quantity to me, I haven't made any attempts to investigate further simply because I haven't heard enough really enthusiastic endorsements of the brand, and if it was that good it should have made more of an impact than it really has IMO, I've heard negative reports, also, trying to get a demo is quite difficult,
Old 4th March 2019
  #5
Lives for gear
 
MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
Yes, I thought so!
I may keep my Eventide Space and augment it with a TCM4000/PCM92.
Bricasti is an unknown quantity to me, I haven't made any attempts to investigate further on those, simply because I haven't heard enough really enthusiastic endorsements of the brand, and if it was that good it should have made more of an impact than it really has IMO, and I have heard negative reports, also, trying to get a demo is quite difficult,
Really...the only significant reverb in the past 10 years is the Bricasti.
The only negative report is from folks who wish they could afford it.
If you were here in S Florida you could come by and grab one to demo

I do have a NIB L960 as well.
Old 4th March 2019
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
Yes, I thought so!
I may keep my Eventide Space and augment it with a TCM4000/PCM92.
Bricasti is an unknown quantity to me, I haven't made any attempts to investigate further simply because I haven't heard enough really enthusiastic endorsements of the brand, and if it was that good it should have made more of an impact than it really has IMO, I've heard negative reports, also, trying to get a demo is quite difficult,
i'm a bit amazed by your view on bricasti: to me it seems more like there are tons of bricasti fan boys here on gearslutz... - i'm not using one 'cause after renting one for some time from a friend, i couldn't find any use for it with the collection of gear i have. i do consider it to be a serious contender for anyone with deep pockets checking into reverb devices though.

but again: imo it's about options so a combination of lex/tc will most likely give you more flexibility than a single bricasti (or whatever else); add an eventide and you're covering most any scenario...

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 4th March 2019 at 10:14 AM.. Reason: edited
Old 4th March 2019
  #7
Lives for gear
 
wallyburger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEHARRIS View Post
Really...the only significant reverb in the past 10 years is the Bricasti.
The only negative report is from folks who wish they could afford it.
If you were here in S Florida you could come by and grab one to demo

I do have a NIB L960 as well.
I'm open to Bricasti, it's just that I haven't seen it being used much in the type of music I'm interested in, or in general here in the U.K. Price aside, for post production these days it seems software rules, especially realistic spaces, and classical music, where most of the effects, if needed are added in post, not live.
I'm interested in using effects live, with an analogue mixer, like an instrument, Eventides are good for this, very versatile. Seeing as a I record my piano and percussion dry, it may be best to stick to software for those, and add when mixing, it's just that I'm a hardware type of guy, that's all.
I've got Valhalla Vintage, and Room in software, very good value for what they are. But I rarely use Vintage as it's it not hardware and not so playable live.
My budget is high enough to take in a Bricasti, but TBQH, I'd have to try it very thoroughly and hear it up against a few things before I even though about parting with a penny.
Old 4th March 2019
  #8
Lives for gear
 
AlexK's Avatar
 

The Bricasti is the one 'common denominator' reverb I know - basically everyone has one. I don't think I've ever heard a negative opinion about it...
Old 4th March 2019
  #9
Lives for gear
 
OceanMan's Avatar
 

Hey man. I think all growing studios run into this. And it feels like a bit of an oddball, considering everything that can be done ITB these days, right? It felt like that for me, initially anyway. That's just my personal, anecdotal preface, so that you know a bit of where I am coming from.

I have a Bricasti M7 which, like many, I am very, very partial toward. It is however, not exactly cheap...although I'd say it is priced very graciously given what it provides. 3k used or maybe somewhat under, around 4k new (no controller).

Another great one is the TC Reverb 4000. Really nice, freaking love that thing. It is much more affordable than a Bricasti, plus they have lowered it's selling point significantly since it came out. It is $1300 new. & it is a great all around box, that does some things exceptionally. It was (is?) my first big bucks stereo 'verb. I had all the bells and whistles except a hardware reverb. "WHY shell out this money for something just for clients...blehhh" was my thinking.

Boy was I wrong, TOTALLY wrong that it would be something pointless. You absolutely cannot do ITB what that thing does. Love it, love it. Research and read up on it, I'd say. It is essentially a single engine, stereo version of the System 6000 (which is 4 engines + controller...costs like 17K or something...yeah. scary haha).

You can likely find a TC Reverb 4000 for $1K or under, I would assume. I personally would not bother with Lexicon or Eventide stuff. It is digital gear, that has now been moved into the realm of plug-ins. It would be a poor purchase in my opinion. The plug ins, as digital replications, are spot on.

Best of luck,
Matthieu

Last edited by OceanMan; 4th March 2019 at 10:15 AM.. Reason: dyslexia. every. damn. time.
Old 4th March 2019
  #10
Lives for gear
 
OceanMan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
I'm open to Bricasti, it's just that I haven't seen it being used much in the type of music I'm interested in, or in general here in the U.K. Price aside, for post production these days it seems software rules, especially realistic spaces, and classical music, where most of the effects, if needed are added in post, not live.
I'm interested in using effects live, with an analogue mixer, like an instrument, Eventides are good for this, very versatile. Seeing as a I record my piano and percussion dry, it may be best to stick to software for those, and add when mixing, it's just that I'm a hardware type of guy, that's all.
I've got Valhalla Vintage, and Room in software, very good value for what they are. But I rarely use Vintage as it's it not hardware and not so playable live.
My budget is high enough to take in a Bricasti, but TBQH, I'd have to try it very thoroughly and hear it up against a few things before I even though about parting with a penny.
I would take the leap on a used Bricasti if it is indeed affordable for you. You can always sell it for at least what you bought it for if you are not a fan. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
Old 4th March 2019
  #11
Lives for gear
 
wallyburger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanMan View Post
Hey man. I think all growing studios run into this. And it feels like a bit of an oddball, considering everything that can be done ITB these days, right? It did for me.

I have a Bricasti M7 which, like many, I am very, very partial toward. It is however, not exactly cheap...although I'd say it is priced very graciously given what it provides. 3k used or maybe somewhat under, around 4k new (no controller).

Another great one is the TC Reverb 4000. Really nice, freaking love that thing. It is much more affordable than a Bricasti, plus they have lowered it's selling point significantly since it came out. It is $1300 new. & it is a great all around box, that does some things exceptionally. It was (is?) my first big bucks stereo 'verb. I had all the bells and whistles except a hardware reverb. "WHY shell out this money for something just for clients...blehhh" was my thinking.

Boy was I wrong, TOTALLY wrong that it would be something pointless. You absolutely cannot do ITB what that thing does. Love it, love it. Research and read up on it, I'd say. It is essentially a single engine, stereo version of the System 6000 (which is 4 engines + controller...costs like 17K or something...yeah. scary haha).

You can likely find a TC Reverb 4000 for $1K or under, I would assume. I personally would not bother with Lexicon or Eventide stuff. It is digital gear, that has now been moved into the realm of plug-ins. It would be a poor purchase in my opinion. The plug ins, as digital replications, are spot on.

Best of luck,
Matthieu
From what you say, and also, based on the opinions of a friend who had a TC M3000, I may give the 4000 a go, it might have the realism I need for my piano and percussion, and I'll have my Eventide Space for far out.
Is the Bricasti going to be worth the extra money to me personally? in the context of what I'm doing, probably not, I'd still like to hear one though, just to satisfy my curiosity.
Old 4th March 2019
  #12
Lives for gear
 
OceanMan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
From what you say, and also, based on the opinions of a friend who had a TC M3000, I may give the 4000 a go, it might have the realism I'm looking for on my piano and percussion, and I'll have my Eventide Space for far out.
Is the Bricasti going to be worth the extra money to me personally? in the context of what I'm doing, probably not, I'd still like to hear one though, just to satisfy my curiosity.
This will work for you. The TC4000 is a step above your friends unit in it's addition of the of "VSS4" algorithms. It does a lot of stuff well, great plates.

To answer your question...I don't know what you are doing musically, can you enlighten me just a bit? I know it sucks to try to sum up your music, but it will help me answer or at least relay my opinion

Last edited by OceanMan; 4th March 2019 at 10:25 AM.. Reason: dyslexia. every. damn. time.
Old 4th March 2019
  #13
Lives for gear
 
wallyburger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanMan View Post
This will work for you. The TC4000 is a step above your friends unit in it's addition of the of "VSS4" algorithms. It does a lot of stuff well, great plates.

To answer your question...I don't know what you are doing musically, can you enlighten me just a bit? I know it sucks to try to sum up your music, but it will help me answer or at least relay my opinion
Toy Town | Anthony Flynn
One For The Road | Anthony Flynn

Here are examples of my music.
I think the 4000 will fill the gap.
Also, just read here on GS that the Bricasti has a fan! That's ruled it out completely, it's off the list.
My Lexicon 224 had to be outside in the hall, I'm sensitive to these things, I got rid of my Eventide because it hummed so much. In a quiet home studio even a small fan can be really annoying, that's a real shame about the Bricasti.
Old 4th March 2019
  #14
Lives for gear
 
OceanMan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
Toy Town | Anthony Flynn
One For The Road | Anthony Flynn

Here are examples of my music.
I think the 4000 will fill the gap.
Also, just read here on GS that the Bricasti has a fan! That's ruled it out completely, it's off the list.
My Lexicon 224 had to be outside in the hall, I'm sensitive to these things, I got rid of my Eventide because it hummed so much. In a quiet home studio even a small fan can be really annoying, that's a real shame about the Bricasti.
Go for it dude. you seem to be drawn to it. additionally, you will be free to use the extra cash for other things you may need..all while having a great piece of kit. The TC Reverb 4000 kicks serious ass dude. You will not be disappointed by the 4000 at all or in any way whatsoever, I can guarantee that. In high-end reverb land you will be, and that's a fun place

On the fan point on Bricasti, it is a virtual non-issue. To be perfectly honest, the Bricasti rules hand down over any reverb for me, and I have a 960L on tap for use at any time. But the 4000 slays man. Truly. There are sounds I prefer between them all. All play their own roles, Lexicon is the least useful for me currently. The TC plates are so dope...so dope. Makes me want to fire mine up an play with it right now thinking about it! mmm Cheers man !
Old 4th March 2019
  #15
Lives for gear
 
wallyburger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanMan View Post
Go for it dude. you seem to be drawn to it. additionally, you will be free to use the extra cash for other things you may need..all while having a great piece of kit. The TC Reverb 4000 kicks serious ass dude. You will not be disappointed by the 4000 at all or in any way whatsoever, I can guarantee that. In high-end reverb land you will be, and that's a fun place

On the fan point on Bricasti, it is a virtual non-issue. To be perfectly honest, the Bricasti rules hand down over any reverb for me, and I have a 960L on tap for use at any time. But the 4000 slays man. Truly. There are sounds I prefer between them all. All play their own roles, Lexicon is the least useful for me currently. The TC plates are so dope...so dope. Makes me want to fire mine up an play with it right now thinking about it! mmm Cheers man !

Thanks for your input, I'll order a 4000 and see how it goes, I can have it on sale or return, if it doesn't work out I'll try a Bricasti or a PCM.



WB.
Old 4th March 2019
  #16
Lives for gear
 
OceanMan's Avatar
 

Cool music! It's about to take on a whole new dimension. Really FX based which can go wrong fast but I am into it! Some great cheap verbs you may find benefit from are the Yamaha SPX990/90, Roland SRV-2000. Those are some old bad boys, very familiar textures. Roland SDE-1000 delay. 12 bit...came out in '84. Adds something instantly recognizable. All dirt cheap...compared to this **** anyway! all that I mention as an "in addition to" sense of course. Peace, feel free to DM me anytime

-Matthieu
Old 4th March 2019
  #17
Lives for gear
 
OceanMan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
Thanks for your input, I'll order a 4000 and see how it goes, I can have it on sale or return, if it doesn't work out I'll try a Bricasti or a PCM.



WB.
c'est mon plaisir ! enjoy
Old 4th March 2019
  #18
Lives for gear
 
wallyburger's Avatar
 

Much appreciated!

I'll keep you posted...

WB.
Old 1st May 2019
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Salty James's Avatar
Dear Roland, Lexicon, TC, Korg, Eventide...
This thread title.

Thanks
Old 1st May 2019
  #20
Lives for gear
 
James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
Just dropped in to say these clips are great - really interesting sounds.

Let us know when you've done some new recordings with the new reverb!
Old 3rd May 2019
  #21
Here for the gear
 
Master_Splinter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
I'm open to Bricasti, it's just that I haven't seen it being used much in the type of music I'm interested in, or in general here in the U.K. Price aside, for post production these days it seems software rules, especially realistic spaces, and classical music, where most of the effects, if needed are added in post, not live.
I'm interested in using effects live, with an analogue mixer, like an instrument, Eventides are good for this, very versatile. Seeing as a I record my piano and percussion dry, it may be best to stick to software for those, and add when mixing, it's just that I'm a hardware type of guy, that's all.
I've got Valhalla Vintage, and Room in software, very good value for what they are. But I rarely use Vintage as it's it not hardware and not so playable live.
My budget is high enough to take in a Bricasti, but TBQH, I'd have to try it very thoroughly and hear it up against a few things before I even though about parting with a penny.
Try the Tegeler Reverb too. I can't spell it or pronounce it but it sound reminds me of the Fairchild Reverbatron
Old 4th May 2019
  #22
Lives for gear
 
wallyburger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann View Post
Just dropped in to say these clips are great - really interesting sounds.

Let us know when you've done some new recordings with the new reverb!
Hi all, red face here, had a splurge, bought a 4000, those that reccomended it please take many thanks, I love it. At the opposite end of the spectrum, I also bought an Alesis MidiVerb 2, and a Strymon Big Sky, I just can't get enough reverbs, I'll always be fascinated by them.
I haven't had a chance to record anything much lately, but when I do I'll post some links.

Old 4th May 2019
  #23
Lives for gear
 
oldgearguy's Avatar
 

I'll be interested to hear what you think of the 4000 after listening to a few of your tracks.

I have heard a lot of people rave about them over the years and I finally picked one up myself. I had a chance to quickly audition the presets. Initially, I thought they were very clean, polite, and transparent. Unfortunately, I haven't done a lot of editing to them because the unit has a display problem. 2 horizontal lines of pixels are out and they cut right through the text at the bottom where the parameter names are located making it difficult to read exactly what parameter I want to change.

I have a ticket in and posted a request on the forum (tc electronic is owned by Behringer and is part of their whole Music Tribe scene).

So far, no one has gotten back to me after 1 week and since tc/Behr doesn't make service manuals available, I have no easy way to
a) diagnose the exact problem,
b) order a part directly from MusicTribe,
c) track down a commercially available substitute.

So it looks like I'm sending this back to the store since it's clear they didn't fully test it before shipping it out to me.

IMHO if Uli Behringer wants his company to be known for more than low cost/high volume, support and service would be one of those key areas. Even the simple act of posting service manuals/parts lists for discontinued gear would be a huge help and would cut down the number of service requests they receive.

For reference, I do also have a MIDIVerb II, 480L, Bricasti, Publison, H9000, and also an RSP-550 and RSS-10 for reverbs. Again, without editing, I thought the 4000 was a distant second in comparison to the Bricasti for that realistic room/space reverb sound. No idea if the 4000 would be better w. edits. Note that my sources are exclusively electronic (synths, drum machine, sampler) and I like the sound of reverbs so my opinion may be somewhat skewed.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
Lives for gear
 
wallyburger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy View Post
I'll be interested to hear what you think of the 4000 after listening to a few of your tracks.

I have heard a lot of people rave about them over the years and I finally picked one up myself. I had a chance to quickly audition the presets. Initially, I thought they were very clean, polite, and transparent. Unfortunately, I haven't done a lot of editing to them because the unit has a display problem. 2 horizontal lines of pixels are out and they cut right through the text at the bottom where the parameter names are located making it difficult to read exactly what parameter I want to change.

I have a ticket in and posted a request on the forum (tc electronic is owned by Behringer and is part of their whole Music Tribe scene).

So far, no one has gotten back to me after 1 week and since tc/Behr doesn't make service manuals available, I have no easy way to
a) diagnose the exact problem,
b) order a part directly from MusicTribe,
c) track down a commercially available substitute.

So it looks like I'm sending this back to the store since it's clear they didn't fully test it before shipping it out to me.

IMHO if Uli Behringer wants his company to be known for more than low cost/high volume, support and service would be one of those key areas. Even the simple act of posting service manuals/parts lists for discontinued gear would be a huge help and would cut down the number of service requests they receive.

For reference, I do also have a MIDIVerb II, 480L, Bricasti, Publison, H9000, and also an RSP-550 and RSS-10 for reverbs. Again, without editing, I thought the 4000 was a distant second in comparison to the Bricasti for that realistic room/space reverb sound. No idea if the 4000 would be better w. edits. Note that my sources are exclusively electronic (synths, drum machine, sampler) and I like the sound of reverbs so my opinion may be somewhat skewed.
Sorry to hear about your problems, my God, I didn't realise TC was owned by Behringer? That's why I normally like to buy from small companies, preferably with a phone in the UK, simply because when problems arise it's easy to speak to someone direct, the bigger the company the worse customer service is IMO.
I'm OK with my 4000, I'm using my Big Sky more than ever, I'm a synth player too, and the BS seems to add this lovely melancholy, very spacey sound to things, it's definitely got something magical about it.
The 4000 came into it's own though, when I had an acoustic improv session here, all we wanted to do was add some realistic small hall reverb to what we did, it worked fine for that, butI don't think I'll be using it for atmospheric synth stuff.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #25
Lives for gear
 

if it's about versatility, the (much hated) spx2000 does well - i'm mostly using quantec, lexicon, eventide, sony and tc efx devices though...

for all sorts of modulation (pitch shifters, delays, chorus, flanger etc.) on keys (and guitars), i'd start with a (newer) eventide! - btw: my two h3500's are still going strong after many years of heavy use and some touring and i'm having no issues with my orville either.



p.s. getting spare parts (or even complete documentations!) for products from all companies under the umbrella of evil b is close to impossible: the transfer of technology to cheap b-products seems to be the goal, at the price of neglecting the formerly a-level brands... - but hey, what would you expect from a company that's registered in a tax heaven? (not just a rant: sadly experienced with lab, lake, midas, tc, tannoy and turbosound!)

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 4 weeks ago at 02:40 PM.. Reason: edited
Old 4 weeks ago
  #26
Lives for gear
 
oldgearguy's Avatar
 

Got my replacement display yesterday. Apparently B moved the TC support center to Vegas and a bunch of people left. Only 2 folks currently supporting it. Plus they are switching over to a common phone and web support system, but during the change, everything was temporarily routed to a canned voice message. The guy in support called me directly to get my order placed. Next week I may have a comment after getting to actually use the tc.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyburger View Post
I'm still looking for a decent hardware reverb. First of all, I'm not looking to recreate any "classic" sounds. I've owned Lexicons, 224/PCM70, and Eventides, Space/H3000, and they are great, but one trick ponies for me. Plus, most of those broke down, and are now extremely unreliable, hence my new search.
My music is abstract electronic and acoustic, piano and percussion, and I'm not after one particular reverb sound exclusively, I like to use that grainy chorus tail on electronics, but on acoustic sounds I like a contrast, extremely realistic small/medium halls. Eventides just can't do "extremely realistic" and Lexicons don't do swept reverbs like an Eventide, so what im looking for is a sort of all in one box, probably a pointless exercise, and my feeling is I'll probably have to go for more than one box on this one.
Any ideas and suggestions welcome.....
How about The Eventide H9000 ?
signal processing power of 16 DSP engines powered by four quad-core ARM processors.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #28
Lives for gear
 
wallyburger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
How about The Eventide H9000 ?
signal processing power of 16 DSP engines powered by four quad-core ARM processors.
It just wouldn't be worth the expenditure for me, I can't see any way that my music would sound £5,500 better. It's a great unit, no doubt, but effects can be a bit of a rabbit hole, with no ending, gone are the days when I used to spend hours exploring an effects unit. A pedal with a few knobs or a rack with some good presets is all I really want now.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
hitsville / So Much Gear, So Little Time
8
IBE / So Much Gear, So Little Time
36
GitcheeGoo / So Much Gear, So Little Time
1
bonestar / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
8
grahluk / Music Computers
1

Forum Jump
Forum Jump