The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
What is your request from " Neumann "? Condenser Microphones
Old 7th February 2019
  #61
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
What is it that you’re so angry about? The point about Merc shifting from being a Neumann dealer to pushing Gefell?

I’m unclear why you come in right out of the gate with such a high level of animosity, name calling, and just unprofessional behavior. It’s really unwarranted. I shouldn’t have engaged you at all, much less take it to your level.

But as long as that’s where we’re at, here’s a hint - you can be diplomatic about correcting people, or raising your side of things. You don’t have to go full jackass off the rip.

Did you even make an on topic post in this thread at all, or just come in to do your usual bad attitude bs? I love the “he’s just a troll folks” routine that I’ve seen you do on many other people you disagree with in some lame attempt to shut them down. A good sign of someone who is incapable of making a reasoned argument, and who instead resorts to ad hominem.
You are the one insinuating a lie, in order to suit your own adventures in "dreamland". Don't get upset that you got called out for a totally untrue smear of reality. You simply made it up out of thin air. Nothing more to say to you. You are lost
What’s the “lie” that you’re so upset about?

How can you call someone out by saying “you’re wrong” and presenting no factual counterpoint? That’s just being a loud mouth.

You are a deeply unprofessional character, and you ought to seek some help for your anger issues, which you constantly spew across this board and elsewhere. Count to ten man.

Again, I’m pretty sure you didn’t post a single on topic post in the thread before coming on here to troll it up with your usual drama.

Before you had beef, once upon a time you shared a vid of mine on your social media as an example of someone using their ears on a recording. Now I’m a dumb ****. Love it!

Last edited by toledo3; 7th February 2019 at 12:47 AM..
Old 7th February 2019
  #62
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Wrong again! Keep digging. Your posts are marked down on deep discount.
What specifically is wrong, and who are you. Another inflammatory statement that’s totally off topic with “I know you are but what am I” type logic. I took things point for point, and you reply with some snide crap.

That’s a lot easier than actually countering what I wrote, because nothing I wrote is wrong.

GD weirdos.
Old 7th February 2019
  #63
Gear Head
 

Toledo:
Quote:
Whatever Willet is alluding to sounds pretty hearsay. It’s his prerogative. I take it as seriously as I tend to take hearsay that conveniently proves points. None of the Gefell designs made during that time show that they are based in the circuit designs of the real Neumann. Elements like the Gefell nickel caps actually have significant physical differences...and the mic circuits built around them are REALLY different.
You can keep bashing the poor guy (maybe that is why he is waring a helmet (!) but when he is right he's right. Willet likes to place MG Geffel, the company he represents, into Neumann's sunshine, hoping Geffel will get a tan too.

Neumann in berlin had no mics or parts for their mics made by Geffel after they moved back to Berlin once the Berlin factory was rebuilt (1949?)

M7? They were both great, but have different details (you can always tell by Geffel's tiny center screw). And those East German M7 were never used in Neumann-Berlin mics which made their own M7 (larger center screw).
Old 7th February 2019
  #64
Gear Addict
 
fred2bern's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmuth View Post
Toledo:
You can keep bashing the poor guy (maybe that is why he is waring a helmet (!) but when he is right he's right. Willet likes to place MG Geffel, the company he represents, into Neumann's sunshine, hoping Geffel will get a tan too.
Funny and true.

By the way the subject is "What is your request from Neumann", No Geffel in the title...

And I'm still on a new M50, that would be great for me.

Fred.

Last edited by fred2bern; 7th February 2019 at 09:39 AM..
Old 7th February 2019
  #65
Lives for gear
 
MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
M50 and transformer KM84
Old 7th February 2019
  #66
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
The modern Gefell “bottle mic” isn’t the same as the vintage bottle mics, and the M7 isn’t precisely the same either.
The modern Gefell "bottle mic" is as close it can be given modern RoHS complience and the original valve totally obsolete so the closest equivalent was found (and clearly stated).

What makes you say that the M7 isn't the same?


Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
Going back to the original mention of nickel caps - the nickel caps Gefell produces have a high frequency rise of several dB, not designed for flat response.
Er where is this HF rise?





(upper is M 221, lower is M 102)

Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
People are free to call Gefell the real Neumann all they want.
Where has anyone said that?

Gefell was started by Neumann - is in the factory that Neumann moved them to. It just has a different history after the iron curtain came up and is still owned by Georg Neumann KG. It has all the high quality manufacturing instilled by Georg Neumann.

No one has said it is better or "the real Neumann" and no one is putting down Neumann Berlin. Just recognising the history.
Old 7th February 2019
  #67
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
The modern Gefell "bottle mic" is as close it can be given modern RoHS complience and the original valve totally obsolete so the closest equivalent was found (and clearly stated).

What makes you say that the M7 isn't the same?




Er where is this HF rise?





(upper is M 221, lower is M 102)



Where has anyone said that?

Gefell was started by Neumann - is in the factory that Neumann moved them to. It just has a different history after the iron curtain came up and is still owned by Georg Neumann KG. It has all the high quality manufacturing instilled by Georg Neumann.

No one has said it is better or "the real Neumann" and no one is putting down Neumann Berlin. Just recognising the history.
Hey there John, thanks for being polite about this!

The caps themselves have a rise compared to the Neumann nickel caps. You are showing the mic plot, but you can still see some slight bumps up at the top, whereas the Neumann is flat and rounds off. It’s not a big difference depending on your view, but it’s there. Also, if you physically inspect the inner diaphragm part of the caps you will differences. There are also similarities. But I point this out to mean that modern Gefell nickel diaphragms aren’t “the same”.

I suggest that the M7 is not quite the same because of the fact that PVC isn’t made the same way anymore. The other fact is that they also now make them with Mylar, which is also not part of the original M7. Some might also describe the sound of Gefell’s current typical adjustment of the caps to be a bit overwhelming in the low mids.

I’m sorry that a side point I made in my initial post in the thread had to get blown up to the point of taking up so much of the thread. I’d suggest to people that, in general, if you have a real burning need to chew someone out for some reason - real or imagined - it really is a good idea to take it to PM, if you can’t have a conversation without epithets. It’s just rude to other forum members. You can actually clear things up and have the other guy going “ok, cool”, or find out that you’re the one who is wrong, without slinging feces everywhere. When you come in hot, it’s hard to cool it down after, and it ends up derailing the legit conversation people are attempting to have.
Old 7th February 2019
  #68
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
Hey there John, thanks for being polite about this!

The caps themselves have a rise compared to the Neumann nickel caps. You are showing the mic plot, but you can still see some slight bumps up at the top, whereas the Neumann is flat and rounds off. It’s not a big difference depending on your view, but it’s there. Also, if you physically inspect the inner diaphragm part of the caps you will differences. There are also similarities. But I point this out to mean that modern Gefell nickel diaphragms aren’t “the same”.

I suggest that the M7 is not quite the same because of the fact that PVC isn’t made the same way anymore. The other fact is that they also now make them with Mylar, which is also not part of the original M7. Some might also describe the sound of Gefell’s current typical adjustment of the caps to be a bit overwhelming in the low mids.

I’m sorry that a side point I made in my initial post in the thread had to get blown up to the point of taking up so much of the thread. I’d suggest to people that, in general, if you have a real burning need to chew someone out for some reason - real or imagined - it really is a good idea to take it to PM, if you can’t have a conversation without epithets. It’s just rude to other forum members. You can actually clear things up and have the other guy going “ok, cool”, or find out that you’re the one who is wrong, without slinging feces everywhere. When you come in hot, it’s hard to cool it down after, and it ends up derailing the legit conversation people are attempting to have.
This is the capsule response of the MK 102:-



This is the capsule response of the MK 221:-



Neumann Berlin have been unable to make nickel capsules for many years, Stephan Peus got a little annoyed about it a while back when someone kept mentioning nickel capsules. I don't know the reason they can't do it.

But, please don't get me wrong, I am *not* putting Neumann Berlin down in any way as I know them very well and have even given AES papers on Neumann (and Sennheiser) microphones. I'm just trying to keep the history correct - as both Neumann Berlin and Microtech Gefell are both Neumann companies that were started and owned by Georg Neumann.

And the best description of nickel capsules is the one in the interview with David Josephson that I linked to earlier.
Old 7th February 2019
  #69
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

Yep John, that’s basically what I’m saying.
Old 7th February 2019
  #70
Gear Addict
 
fred2bern's Avatar
You should all go back to your DAW and record or edit music instead of wasting too many time on this forum...

Joking, of course...

Fred

Last edited by fred2bern; 7th February 2019 at 09:54 PM..
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
turnstyle / So Much Gear, So Little Time
0
quadfib / So Much Gear, So Little Time
3

Forum Jump
Forum Jump