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Electricity and power conditioners etc... Boring stuff!
Old 25th January 2019
  #1
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Electricity and power conditioners etc... Boring stuff!

Maybe I'm just being overly paranoid, but I'm noticing my signals could be cleaner and more consistent through high-end pres and equipment. It's difficult to explain, but there are definitely very slight overtones I don't hear from the source until it's miced and my gear (which is regularly serviced) used to sound a very slightly cleaner with more dynamic range. For example, my Neve 1073's self-noise seems a little more broad-band now when I have to crank it for quiet sources.

There are generally no massive noise issues in my studio beyond this, but I'm worried that power usage from other places in the same building affect how my gear runs at different points in the day. Around 100 businesses operate within the building at various points in the day and it's a very old building with poor maintenance.

An electrician has tested the supply point and all plugs, which all seemed to be fine at the time, but I'd like some advice on how to regulate the power that goes to my desk and outboard just as a precaution. I use quite a few Furman M-10x E power conditioners at the moment, but if anyone could chime in with further precautions I'd really appreciate it. Even on test equipment I should try and get a hold of to test the quality of sine wave etc.
And should I try isolation transformers?
Old 25th January 2019
  #2
I am not an electrician but I can speak for what has worked for me.

A fairly inexpensive (< $500 USD) solution for a smaller studio is something along the line of a Cyberpower Sinewave regenerating UPS, which provides both power backup and normalizing of the AC power. I use this mainly for protection of the equipment, but it helps with spikes, sags, and any dirty power issues from other non-audio equipment that is in the circuit.

Where feasible it is also better to have a dedicated 20+ AMP circuit, but if that is not possible having the UPS is a good measure. I have used these for over 10 years with no issues. Just make sure you get one that can handle the peak load based on the total wattage of your higher powered gear (console, tape, tube pres, etc.).
Old 26th January 2019
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondjim View Post
I am not an electrician but I can speak for what has worked for me.

A fairly inexpensive (< $500 USD) solution for a smaller studio is something along the line of a Cyberpower Sinewave regenerating UPS, which provides both power backup and normalizing of the AC power. I use this mainly for protection of the equipment, but it helps with spikes, sags, and any dirty power issues from other non-audio equipment that is in the circuit.

Where feasible it is also better to have a dedicated 20+ AMP circuit, but if that is not possible having the UPS is a good measure. I have used these for over 10 years with no issues. Just make sure you get one that can handle the peak load based on the total wattage of your higher powered gear (console, tape, tube pres, etc.).
Thanks for the help Jim! That should be perfect.

This might be a silly question, and apologies if it is, but could I run a Furman conditioner out of it for further power distribution? Just as I'd have to buy 4+ otherwise!

My desk uses 3 PSUs so that's pretty much one unit with 4 outputs just for the console.

Edit - also is it the CP1500EPFCLCD you use? There seems to be a lot of reviews from people saying it failed on them!
Old 26th January 2019
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMac View Post
Thanks for the help Jim! That should be perfect.

This might be a silly question, and apologies if it is, but could I run a Furman conditioner out of it for further power distribution? Just as I'd have to buy 4+ otherwise!

My desk uses 3 PSUs so that's pretty much one unit with 4 outputs just for the console.

Edit - also is it the CP1500EPFCLCD you use? There seems to be a lot of reviews from people saying it failed on them!
Yes it's the CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD, have had it running continuously for several years with no problems. I also had a larger OR2200 or one similar to that (it was wired for 220v, an older model) that also ran non-stop for 5 years. The only thing that might need replacing in time is the battery, which they have available. However I did not need that.

As far as running a power tap out of it, while I have read that some electricians say no, I have 5 Belkin power strips coming off of my Mid-Atlantic power sequencer (turns on/off gear in sequence with 10 second delays), all of them have built in surge suppressors which you would not need, but again no problems using them for years.

I think they key is just making sure your gear total wattage is well within the max for the UPS unit so you don't trip it.
Old 26th January 2019
  #5
and I forgot to mention I also have 3 Furman power strips running off of the UPS as well, mainly so I can separately power and manually switch my master bus rack, pre rack, etc.
Old 29th January 2019
  #6
Gear Head
I am by no means an expert, but I'll share a few of my thoughts and experiences.

The Merit series (which includes the M-10X E) have their most basic power conditioning and sacrificial surge protection, so a strong enough surge (or other electrical problem) could damage it and require sending it back to be repaired or replaced.

I recently upgraded from the M-8S (a Merit series power sequencer) to their pro flagship Prestige series that has their best power conditioning and non-sacrificial surge protection. The model I got (P-1800 PF R) also has technology that enhances the performance of amplifiers and active monitors. The improvement I'm hearing is more significant the better the recording is.

They have more affordable models with most of the same features in their Classic series.

But given what you described, a voltage regulator could be beneficial...and that can get pricey. For instance, the P-1400 AR E is well over a thousand.

I'm not sure if you planned on upgrading your Furmans, but you would almost certainly get better results that way. I would advise perusing their website to get a feel for which models could suit your needs.

On the other hand, there are likely better alternatives that are cheaper too. I can't say much about other brands, as I have neither used them nor researched them enough.

By the way, one of my friends lives in Scotland.
Old 29th January 2019
  #7
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A power "conditioner" isn't going to address fundamental issues in your mains power. It can filter out some hash and noise, and prevent some spikes, but it can't raise voltage when it's too low, or maintain a (relatively) constant voltage level as local consumption affects the supply coming from the power substation.

Getting a good UPS will go a long way toward helping the situation, as it converts the incoming AC to DC, then regenerates a new AC signal to the correct values. The best of these are pure-sine wave inverters; as the name implies, the regenerated AC waveform is a sine wave (as it should be). If it's not a pure-sine wave inverter, the waveform will be an approximation with either some inaccuracy and/or introduced noise in the form of stair-stepping.

It's going to take big unit to cover your desk, and the big ones aren't cheap.

One way to approach the problem is to go pure-sine-wave for everything that feeds computers, get the biggest non-PS supply you can for everything else. Using multiple units can work well, giving you some redundancy as well as the ability to add them step-by-step to see if they're actually making a difference that's worth the price you pay.

Both my studios are out in the country (one is waaay out in the country) and the power distribution regulation in both places is iffy at best. There are brown-outs and complete interruptions from storms. This kind of system will give you at least a few minutes to save and power everything down.

As the poster above mentioned, batteries are the weak link in these systems, as they have to store enough current to let the full conversion-regeneration process move through enough cycles to be of any use. They're the main cost in any new unit you buy, and replacements can often be almost as expensive as a new unit. This means the old advice about buying really good used gear vs. OK new gear might not work so well.

So, think carefully about what your issues are. Study your circuit breaker box - what's grouped together there? Try to get your landlord or an electrician to give you an idea of where in your building/estate power distribution you sit - you want to be as close to point-of-entry as possible - although you probably won't be able to do anything about it, at least you'll know. (And if you can get the mains supply for your studio re-situated in the building's distribution, that can often be less expensive, and more effective, than trying to fix problems after the fact.)

Measure what's coming out of your mains outlets several times a day - particularly, when you feel like your equipment is noisier, or performance is otherwise suspect. Do it over a period of a couple of weeks and see if you see any patterns. Then think about your computers first, then maybe your most critical input audio path, then on down the line. It's appealing to think of these as magic bullets - and they can make a huge difference in computer performance in terms of crashes and general stability. But they can't fix everything, so go slowly and buy wisely.

As a final point, stuff like this is one reason why top-flight studios are expensive to build, and to rent - you're paying for the fact that this problem was taken care of in design and construction.
Old 29th January 2019
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofanatic View Post
But given what you described, a voltage regulator could be beneficial...and that can get pricey. For instance, the P-1400 AR E is well over a thousand.
Scams are so easy to promote. Monster sold speaker wire marked with 'speaker' and 'amp' ends. Monster said a speaker end connected to the amp would subvert sound. Many swapped those ends and could actually hear a difference. So Monster sold that $7 speaker wire for $70.

Voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. Even a voltage that low means all electronics must work fine - unchanged. Reasons why can never be understood until basic electronic concepts are learned.

For example, that power supply must filter AC power. Then converts that to DC voltages. Then filters it again, Then converts that into well over 300 volts radio frequency spikes. Any cleaning done by expensive plug-in (magic) boxes is now completely undone.

Then superior filters, galvanic isolation, and regulators convert that 'intentionally made much dirtier than anything on AC mains' into rock stable, low DC voltages. Voltages that must not vary by even 0.2 volts when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity or double intensity.

Some power conditioners are little more than wires with knots in them. No problem. Many will still hear cleaner sound. Not posted are each specification number that say why that magic box did anything. Anyone can read specification numbers on a Cyberpower. It claims hardware protection - subjectively. Subjective is why scams routinely exist. Where is the specification number that defines that protection? Never posted. That hardwarwe protection is actually inferior to what routinely exists inside electronic power supplies.

But the claim was made subjectively. So it must be honest. Bull.

Any claim made here that is not defined by the manufacture specification numbers is immediately suspect as a successful scam.

One rule of thumb. Series mode filters that can filter noise must be at least tens of pounds. Components to filter those audio frequencies must be that large. Notice how light those Furman products are? View numbers. It does have filters - that are so tiny as to do almost nothing.

A UPS only provides temporary power. It does nothing to protect hardware. Again, otherwise we read the specification number for each anomaly. UPS does not have to. Electronic power supplies are more robust. So any anomaly - one foolishly credits a UPS for what all appliances must already do. Never ignore specification numbers as so many here have done.
Old 29th January 2019
  #9
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
Scams are so easy to promote.
'Kay. All I know is that, with my system, the P-1800 PF R sounds drastically different than the M-8S, which in turn sounds pretty different than cheapo power strips.
Old 29th January 2019
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofanatic View Post
'Kay. All I know is that, with my system, the P-1800 PF R sounds drastically different than the M-8S, which in turn sounds pretty different than cheapo power strips.
And Monster sold speaker wire with the ends marked 'amp' and 'speaker' for $70. So many could actually hear the difference. Scams are based in the word qualitative (also called subjective). Reality is found in the word quantitative.
Old 29th January 2019
  #11
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
And Monster sold speaker wire with the ends marked 'amp' and 'speaker' for $70. So many could actually hear the difference. Scams are based in the word qualitative (also called subjective). Reality is found in the word quantitative.
So you're trying to claim all power conditioners sound the same? LOL

You may be able to fool those who have no experience with the products in question, but you can't fool me.
Old 29th January 2019
  #12
m03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
Monster sold speaker wire marked with 'speaker' and 'amp' ends. Monster said a speaker end connected to the amp would subvert sound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
And Monster sold speaker wire with the ends marked 'amp' and 'speaker' for $70. So many could actually hear the difference. Scams are based in the word qualitative (also called subjective). Reality is found in the word quantitative.

Off topic, but I'd love to see any evidence to prove this actually happened and isn't just an urban legend, since Google turns up nothing.

I don't doubt that they would have labelled the ends for the sole purpose of reducing customer support calls, but it would be quite another to claim in official company literature that plugging the wrong-end would harm sound quality.
Old 30th January 2019
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by m03 View Post
I don't doubt that they would have labelled the ends for the sole purpose of reducing customer support calls, ...
Nobody said they did it to reduce customer support calls. Why would people call customer support for speaker wires? Those were just 'expensive looking' wires. But (and Monster has a long history of profitthing this way) because it claims to perform some magic and sells for $70, then many consumers just "knew" it was somehow better quality and better sound. They were told to believe it. So it must be true.

Same applies to Monster protectors. Anyone can read specification numbers That was stated repeatedly because this fundamental concept is so difficult for so many. Where is one specification number that says that Monster protector is effective? Numbers say it is electrically equivalent to one selling for $10. And since that $3 power strip, with expensive looking paint and a few dimes of protector parts, sells for $50 or $120. Then many just know it must be quality. For some reason, that never makes sense, many just know it must be better quality. Monster has a long history of doing this.

Just because they were doing it in 50 years ago means you will find it on the Internet? Where are the stories that discuss smoking cigarettes to increase health A majority of Americans knew that was true. And since it was many decades ago, then it is all over the internet? Just because it happened long before PCs existed means it must be common knowledge? Really?

Notice how some become so entrenched in advertising (ie brainwashing) as to even intentionally read what was never posted. He said
Quote:
So you're trying to claim all power conditioners sound the same?
Nobody said that. Nobody said power conditioners change audio. He only read what he wanted to conclude. Stated quite bluntly: a Furman does not claim to do what advertising (subjective myths) ordered him to believe.

If honest, he posted Furman numbers to contradict that statement. He does not. No such specifications exist. Only his emotions know otherwise.

Anyone can read those Furman specification number. If he was being honest with himself, then he has posted specification numbers that defines a Furman effective for each anomaly. Scams are so easy to promote - such as magic speaker wire and such as smoking cigarettes to increase health.

Did we not learn lessons from Saddam's WMDs? How many were so easily scammed by that lie - that was clearly contradicted by facts and numbers.

Why another outright lie about sacrificial protection? They got him to even forget what was taught in elementary school science. Somehow that magic box will 'block' what three miles of sky cannot. Naive consumers believe that only because they were ordered to. And never did what honest consumers always do. Demand specifications that justify that claim.

Show me numbers. Define each anomaly. Then post manufacturer specifications that defines how each anomaly is 'blocked, 'absorbed', or 'averted'. And good luck. We designed this stuff probably long before you were born. We learned a few thing along the way. Including how easy it is to scam so many. How many are so easily scammed by Emergen-C and Aiirborne that magically cure the common cold. Scams are that easily promoted.

What a Furman does is already done better inside electronics. As already explained by concepts (hardware designs) that existed long before PCs existed. And not by soundbytes that can so easily lie.
Old 30th January 2019
  #14
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
Nobody said power conditioners change audio.
Oh brother. You've obviously never heard many power conditioners, then. Anyone who has any real experience with high-end audio systems knows that power conditioners can make a significant improvement to the sound. It's not subtle at all. In fact, my new one is making me feel disoriented, since I'm not used to it sounding this different. I'm not interested in proving anything to anyone. I listen with my ears. The only people saying this crap about all power conditioners, DACs, etc. sounding the same are those who lack sufficient experience and waste time on theory instead of actually listening to the components.
Old 30th January 2019
  #15
m03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
Nobody said they did it to reduce customer support calls.
I posited that as a reasonable explanation for why a company would be motivated to apply such labelling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
Why would people call customer support for speaker wires? Those were just 'expensive looking' wires.
I see you've never dealt with customers who were uneducated on the functionality of the products or services they were purchasing. Consider yourself exceedingly lucky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
But (and Monster has a long history of profitthing this way) because it claims to perform some magic and sells for $70, then many consumers just "knew" it was somehow better quality and better sound. They were told to believe it. So it must be true.
I'm seeing a lot of talk, but zero evidence of the existence of company literature claiming that using the wrong end of a cable would negatively impact fidelity. You're as guilty of perpetuating myths as the people you seem to be complaining about.
Old 30th January 2019
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofanatic View Post
You've obviously never heard many power conditioners, then. Anyone who has any real experience with high-end audio systems knows that power conditioners can make a significant improvement to the sound.
Total bull. If it improves sound, then it must improve DC voltages. So an honest person says how much it improves those rock stable, absolutely clean DC voltages.

A man would post facts with numbers. Only posted are statement supported only by emotions. Children do that. Which is why children are so easily scammed.

If a power conditioner does something useful, then we are reading the specification that says so. That defines each improvement. Since you are insulting people's intelligence with blanket and subjective wild speculation, then one must only conclude you are lyiing - even to yourself.

Show me the numbers. You can't. They don't exist.
Old 30th January 2019
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by m03 View Post
I posited that as a reasonable explanation for why a company would be motivated to apply such labelling.
You are only denying that scams are easily promoted. Scams are routine - such as magic drugs that cure the common cold. NY Attorney General proved that most drugs sold in health food stores often do not even contain what is listed on the label. Another so easily promoted scam.

That is all you need to know about Monster's previous history (that was so long ago and so routine as to not be on the internet). Does not matter even if it is found. Scams are that easy to promote - as Saddam's WMDs so proved.

Are so many people easily scammed? Where is one specification number from Monster or Furman that proves all those hyperbolic claims being made here?

Magic boxes on AC mains do nothing for sound. Since anything done by a magic box is first completely undone inside power supplies (already explained). Then superior (better) circuits doing filtering, galvanic isolation, and regulation make completely irrelevant those mythical AC electric sound distorters (already explained).

Show me the numbers. You cannot. Because scams (such as wire marked with a speaker and amp ends) are routinely believed by people such as the OP - who never does and will never post one fact or number to support his sales lies. (BTW another reported he saw that same scam being promoted by Best Buy about ten years ago. I did not see it. But the scam works. That is the point.)

Are you trying to deny that scams are easily and routinely promoted? Either you do or do not agree - since that is the point. Monster protectors selling for $120 in Radio Shack were electrically similar to ones selling in Walmart for $10. And again the point: its more expensive so it must be better. A scam so easy to promote. And demonstrated here.
Old 30th January 2019
  #18
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
Total bull. If it improves sound, then it must improve DC voltages. So an honest person says how much it improves those rock stable, absolutely clean DC voltages.

A man would post facts with numbers. Only posted are statement supported only by emotions. Children do that. Which is why children are so easily scammed.

If a power conditioner does something useful, then we are reading the specification that says so. That defines each improvement. Since you are insulting people's intelligence with blanket and subjective wild speculation, then one must only conclude you are lyiing - even to yourself.

Show me the numbers. You can't. They don't exist.
hahaha. What a joke. No, you are insulting the intelligence (and hearing capability) of thousands (if not millions) of music industry professionals and audio enthusiasts who clearly hear the benefits of various power conditioners. You have obviously not heard them, so stop talking about them.

I speak from direct experience, with no speculation involved. You're the one making wild speculation, going on about theory and specs, when these things don't tell you much about how something sounds. Just look at the info on the links below. They're not going to go into great detail in the specs showing how it all works. If you want an in-depth explanation, contact the manufacturer. It's their job to explain how it works; not the consumers'.

Linear Filtration Technology | Furman Power | Purifying power for over 40 years.
15A Prestige Power Conditioner w/ Power Factor Technology | Furman Power | Purifying power for over 40 years.
Old 30th January 2019
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofanatic View Post
I speak from direct experience, with no speculation involved.
Not even one manufacturer specification is posted to justify your emotions (mistakenly called experience). No supporting facts is the first indication that one is lying. In this case, you are apparently even lying to yourself.

An honest person has already defined each anomaly and then quoted the Furman or Monster specification that cures that anomaly. Never happened. Cannot happen. No such specs exist. Your every recommendation only comes from propaganda that also proved reversed speaker wires can subvert sound. They also were adamant about their experience. Unfortunately too many always believe the first thing told. Then incessantly deny reality - ie Saddam's WMDs. Scams are easy - especially when one knows only from his emotions. It is called the placebo effect. Also called junk science.

An honest person would first take time to locate and quote facts. Emotions (experience) also proved reversed speaker wires distorted sound. The emotional will constantly deny. You will refuse to learn. Demonstrated for others is how entrenched those lies. It even explains why some constantly believe a lying president.

Brainwashing is easy. My father enjoyed doing it. Fun was manipulating people who always know only from their feelings. So you are not alone. Experience says you will deny forever so as to deny you are easily scammed.

No spec numbers is the first indication of lies. Furman and Monster successfully tap this so profitable market. Effective series mode filters would weight many tens of pounds. More ignored numbers.
Old 30th January 2019
  #20
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
Not even one manufacturer specification is posted to justify your emotions (mistakenly called experience). No supporting facts is the first indication that one is lying. In this case, you are apparently even lying to yourself.
You have no idea what you're talking about. "Objectivists" are trolls with zero credibility who live in a fantasy world of theory and typically haven't even used the products they bash. You're the ones who refuse to learn. Oftentimes, no amount of specs will be enough, as your type will just insist it's not audible anyway.

Listening with my ears and clearly hearing the difference (which is significant and not even close; it sounds like I'm listening to a different system; that can't be placebo) is not emotion or speculation; it's direct experience. I'm sharing my impressions of sound, like most others do on audio forums. If you do not have direct experience with a product, you have no business talking about it. Period.

Also, I literally posted links that lead to specs. Look at the info on the tech page. Click the specs tab on the product page. Go to the datasheet and manual on the resources tab. And research all sorts of other power conditioners, with endless technical info, specs, and measurements published. ...Or you could...oh, I dunno...actually listen to them???

Last edited by audiofanatic; 30th January 2019 at 01:36 PM..
Old 30th January 2019
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofanatic View Post
Listening with my ears and clearly hearing the difference
That is exactly what so many did when they connected the speaker end of speaker wire to the amp. They listened with their ears and clearly heard a difference.

The placebo effect is alive and well. Emotions, not reality, hear that difference.

Scams are best promoted among consumers who are emotional; who are easily told what to believe. Who always ignore numbers.
Old 30th January 2019
  #22
Lives for gear
Yes, Westorm you know how work a power supply. Abx test on low curent show that a reader cd can work fine at 150 volt for 230 nominal.

I have an old cheaper poweramp Nad, he works fine during 3 seconds after the shutdown.

The magic of the faery electricity.
Old 30th January 2019
  #23
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofanatic View Post
You have no idea what you're talking about. "Objectivists" are trolls with zero credibility who live in....
Champion du monde !
Old 1st February 2019
  #24
Lives for gear
The most importing detail is voltage regulation. This is only a piece of the puzzle in better power conditioning units. Most have conditioning, amp limiting, and many other marketing terms. True voltage regulation is the important part.

The best units convert from AC to DC and Back to AC.

Yet another detail is power availability. A unit called a power factor is the first thing that comes into mind there. Those use batteries and or capacitors to store power for when it's needed at a faster rate than the wall can supply.

And then there are UPS. This gives you power when the wall shuts off by drawing from a battery.

I had to really dig into this stuff because I live close to a power plant. When they change the amount of exported power, the towns voltages varies from 108 to 123. Below 110, my work clock unit would stop working right.

If you want everything but a UPS in a small space, The Furman XX00AR is the ticket, but not cheap. XX=18 or 24 or whatever.....total volt*amps

I ended up going with a larger cheaper tripp lite unit followed by a power factor pro. Takes up a ton more space and weight, but I'm not mobile and that was much cheaper.
Old 1st February 2019
  #25
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Currently wiring AC in the studio and did a bunch reading about this. Even considered balanced power and building the whole studio inside a Faraday cage. There was a thread with some guy who was adamant conditioning isn't necessary as gear has voltage regulation built in. I'm pulling way too many amps for my wallet to even think about UPS or reshaping sine waves etc. for the studio. I'm going old school. 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits feeding 2x20 amp Surgex 2120s with an isolated star ground connected with a 1/2" wide copper cable to 3 grounding rods outside and one dirty circuit for lights and a mini-split AC. One Surgex feeds the mixer and one feeds everything else, the mac has a UPS. Other than unplugging the whole thing during a lightning storm, I've done what I can to protect the gear and give it a solid ground.

I'd condition if I could but I'm not suffering "the frizzies".
Old 1st February 2019
  #26
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum View Post
Yet another detail is power availability. A unit called a power factor is the first thing that comes into mind there. Those use batteries and or capacitors to store power for when it's needed at a faster rate than the wall can supply.
Mine has that feature. It's supposed to help amplifiers (including ones in active studio monitors) operate better. Not sure how much better in my case, since I'm using ones with amps that are already rather large and powerful.
Old 1st February 2019
  #27
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum View Post
The most importing detail is voltage regulation. This is only a piece of the puzzle in better power conditioning units.
AC voltage may vary so much that an incandescent bulb dims to 50% intensity or doubles intensity. Even AC voltage variations that massive are perfectly ideal for all electronics. Internal DC voltages do not vary by even 0.2 volts.

Voltage variations from 108 to 123 are not only ideal for electronics. Those voltages are perfectly fine for less robust motorized appliances. So much fear. So little knowledge.

Why would anyone spend massively on AC voltage regulation for variations that make no difference? As demonstrated by so many here, these fears, myths, and outright lies survive because numbers are never learned. Only emotions promoted expensive and unnecessary magic boxes.

Normal variations occurs 120 times every second. It is called AC electricity. Constant variations do not adversely affect electronics. Since electronics even have a hold up time. The time that no AC power is provided and internal DC voltages do not even vary by 0.2 volts. Just another facts from numeric specifications that were ignored by the technically naive because advertising promotes lies to increase profits. Even anxiety of power factor is not based in technical knowledge. Electronic supplies even make power factor irrelevant to amp operation. Internal DC voltages do not vary by even 0.2 volts.

If any of those fables have credibility, then he has posted datasheet numbers from the part at risk. Nobody will. All these fish stories come from wild speculation; come from no basic electrical knowledge. Promoting such fibs to naive consumers is extremely profitable. If those magic boxes are necessary, the few and simple parts are already inside electronic power supplies.

Why would anyone spend so much money on magic boxes to fix what is already solved inside all electronics? All those variations (ie bulbs dim to 50% intensity) occur and internal DC voltages do not vary even by 0.2 volts. Those damning numbers that so many ignored to promote fantasies.

If anyone had credibility, then we are reading quoted specification numbers. And cited are the internal parts at risk. None - not even one - posted because those anomalies are already solved inside all electronics by people who actually know how this stuff works ... even long before PCs existed. No numbers is a very first reason to ignore any recommendation. Because it is probably a scam.
Old 1st February 2019
  #28
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EvilRoy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
AC voltage may vary so much that an incandescent bulb dims to 50% intensity or doubles intensity. Even AC voltage variations that massive are perfectly ideal for all electronics. Internal DC voltages do not vary by even 0.2 volts.

Voltage variations from 108 to 123 are not only ideal for electronics. Those voltages are perfectly fine for less robust motorized appliances. So much fear. So little knowledge.

Why would anyone spend massively on AC voltage regulation for variations that make no difference? As demonstrated by so many here, these fears, myths, and outright lies survive because numbers are never learned. Only emotions promoted expensive and unnecessary magic boxes.

Normal variations occurs 120 times every second. It is called AC electricity. Constant variations do not adversely affect electronics. Since electronics even have a hold up time. The time that no AC power is provided and internal DC voltages do not even vary by 0.2 volts. Just another facts from numeric specifications that were ignored by the technically naive because advertising promotes lies to increase profits. Even anxiety of power factor is not based in technical knowledge. Electronic supplies even make power factor irrelevant to amp operation. Internal DC voltages do not vary by even 0.2 volts.

If any of those fables have credibility, then he has posted datasheet numbers from the part at risk. Nobody will. All these fish stories come from wild speculation; come from no basic electrical knowledge. Promoting such fibs to naive consumers is extremely profitable. If those magic boxes are necessary, the few and simple parts are already inside electronic power supplies.

Why would anyone spend so much money on magic boxes to fix what is already solved inside all electronics? All those variations (ie bulbs dim to 50% intensity) occur and internal DC voltages do not vary even by 0.2 volts. Those damning numbers that so many ignored to promote fantasies.

If anyone had credibility, then we are reading quoted specification numbers. And cited are the internal parts at risk. None - not even one - posted because those anomalies are already solved inside all electronics by people who actually know how this stuff works ... even long before PCs existed. No numbers is a very first reason to ignore any recommendation. Because it is probably a scam.
Remember when I said someone on another thread argued voltage regulation is handled by the gear? This might be the person cuz it's the same valid points.

Solid ground + surge protection = call it a day.
Old 1st February 2019
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Piedpiper's Avatar
Many pieces of gear may be less effected by voltage variations but that is definitely not always the case. Many tube pieces use unregulated supplies and over voltage can burn out the filaments of some tubes. I rebuilt an amplifier once while in the process of trouble shooting a problem because the extremely expensive output tubes were burning out every few months. I eventually checked my voltage and found that it hovered around 126VAC. I tailored the filament supplies to my voltage and took care of it. Many older tube mics are unregulated as well as some preamps, equalizers and compressors.
Old 1st February 2019
  #30
m03
Gear Maniac
 
m03's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
You are only denying that scams are easily promoted.
You're attacking a strawman, as I made no such claim. The thing that I did do, was ask for specific evidence to prove that your statement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post
Monster sold speaker wire marked with 'speaker' and 'amp' ends. Monster said a speaker end connected to the amp would subvert sound.
...had been stated in official company literature. Any evidence at all would fulfill this request.

I'm still waiting.
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