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Lucid 8824...I've got some questions!
Old 11th December 2018
  #1
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Lucid 8824...I've got some questions!

So I've read every every bit of information on the Lucid 8824 I can find and I'm just wondering how to go about having a Lucid 8824 gone through and properly calibrated. Is there a guy out there who knows how to service these convertors? I'm basically looking for an 8824 guru!

We use these in one of the studios here and they honestly still sound great, but with age some of them seem to become unstable with regards to AD/DA levels and although we have an old mac laptop with the software to calibrate them, the settings disappear on restart and the levels seems to vary wildly from channel to channel and the levels really seem like a moving target. I know of several people that have experienced these same issues with the 8824 so I'm sure there is an explanation for what causes it and it really seems like it SHOULD be able to be fixed.

I purchased one of these new in 2005 and it always just worked great and was calibrated perfectly (I never even used the software) but it seems like a lot of the used ones on the market these days are very hit and miss and we have a few that need gone over. I can't find any information on what happened with regards to the company but part of me just KNOWS there is some guy out there who would know exactly how to get them up and running like a stock machine.

Aside from info on a good repair source I also have some other questions maybe owners/users can help with:

-Is there some kind of factory reset on these?
-Are there any relatively easy upgrades that can help with longevity (power supply, etc)?
-Does the PC version of the app actually leave the settinps intact on the unit?
-What is there "stock" calibration level? (when the app says it's at "0")


Btw, I posted this in High End because a) They are still fantastic sounding, top shelf convertors, b) High End guys usually are more into conversion and have been around long enough to maybe have an answer to my question.

Also, I am DEFINITELY not interested in just getting something newer or different so PLEASE only chime in if you have information on how I can get these 8824 units serviced or you have information on what might be causing the instability with them/ how to fix the issues I'm experiencing.

I am also aware that the cost of getting them repaired could end up seeming like a lost cause given what they sell for used and what you can get other convertors for these days, but ideally I would just like to get a handful of these units calibrated and fully restored. It might seem crazy, but we really like them here at the studio and decided it was worth trying to find our White Knight of outdated Digital Tech to save the day!
Old 12th December 2018
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Contact Revive Audio, ask for Jason, they sell a bunch of modded 8824 and 88192s, I'm sure they can help.
Old 12th December 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Marlow View Post
Contact Revive Audio, ask for Jason, they sell a bunch of modded 8824 and 88192s, I'm sure they can help.
We already tried this and didn’t hear back but I’ll give it another shot and be more persistent this time. Thanks!
Old 12th December 2018
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post
We already tried this and didn’t hear back but I’ll give it another shot and be more persistent this time. Thanks!
Dang sorry man... I've been going back and forth with them about getting my 88192s TosLink jacks replaced, I sent them this thread in an email too.
Old 12th December 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Marlow View Post
Dang sorry man... I've been going back and forth with them about getting my 88192s TosLink jacks replaced, I sent them this thread in an email too.
We called them a while back and didn’t hear back but should have followed up for sure. Thanks again for the heads up. I’m gonna call them today!
Old 13th December 2018
  #6
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I have spent a bunch of time with these units.... I wrote software to configure the rs-232 version... .it's free and works on Win10 and OSX.... (see Release v0.3.1 - Bugfixes, and improvements for OSX and Windows 10 * danmechanic/glucid * GitHub)... incidentally, on linux, you can also configure the midi version with it.... if there were interest I may get around to writing for the midi version.

Do you have the midi version or the rs-232 version?

My experience is; the rs-232 version has a much better configuration implementation.... you can 'ask' it what it's current values are set at.... EXCEPT there are actually settings for digital sampling rates (per channel!) that cannot be read... and can only be written to....

On the rs-232 version, if you configure it with dip switch 1 down (remote mode)... and then return it to up (local mode).... the settings stick.
On my midi version.... I am not able to get the settings to stick.... also... you can only write new settings.... not read what they currently are.

When my midi version 'resets' ... the analog attenuators do not go to either of the recommended settings.

An explanation of the recommended analog attenuation settings:

" At the input side, the +4dBu button sets the input gain to –8dB, which translates to approximately
20dB of digital headroom (20dB below 0dBFS). Remember that the +4dBu number represents a
signal level read on an average responding indicator (i.e. VU meter), and the metering in the 8824
responds to peaks. If the +4dBu signal has a 20dB peak to average ratio, then this means that the signal

peaks correspond to +24dBu. If the program material allows, either due to your mixing style, com-
pression or limiting, or just the material itself, you may wish to reduce the amount of headroom to

place the signal as high as possible within the converter’s dynamic range window. Likewise, for espe-
cially dynamic signals, you may want to increase the amount of headroom allowed for these signals.

For –10dBV signals, the –10dBV button sets the input gain to +4dB, which again translates to
approximately 20 dB of dynamic range. The numbers may seem to be off until you recall that a
–10dBV signal is the same as a –7.8dBu signal (1V = 0dBV and 1V = +2.2dBu).
For both input and output, there is up to 31dB of gain or 95dB of attenuation available."


...again... my midi version doesn't appear to default to either of these.

... are you setting dip switch 1 correctly when using the config software?

I'm not sure if any of this is helpful... by my experience has been similar with the midi version not sticking.

If you the rs-232 version, I'd be curious what my software says your setting are.

If you have the midi version... .and just want to try setting the analog IO torecommended +4 levels.... assuming your lucid has it's unit # set to 0... you can send it the midi sysex command:
F0 00 00 5E 58 00 30 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 61 61 61 61 61 61 61 61 F7

....the protocol is documented... let me know if I can help.

Last edited by streber; 14th December 2018 at 12:22 AM.. Reason: mispoke about digital attenuation, meant sampling rates
Old 13th December 2018
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streber View Post
I have spent a bunch of time with these units.... I wrote software to configure the rs-232 version... .it's free and works on Win10 and OSX.... (see Release v0.3.1 - Bugfixes, and improvements for OSX and Windows 10 * danmechanic/glucid * GitHub)... incidentally, on linux, you can also configure the midi version with it.... if there were interest I may get around to writing for the midi version.

Do you have the midi version or the rs-232 version?

My experience is; the rs-232 version has a much better configuration implementation.... you can 'ask' it what it's current values are set at.... EXCEPT there are actually settings for digital attenuation that cannot be read... and can only be written to....

On the rs-232 version, if you configure it with dip switch 1 down (remote mode)... and then return it to up (local mode).... the settings stick.
On my midi version.... I am not able to get the settings to stick.... also... you can only write new settings.... not read what they currently are.

When my midi version 'resets' ... the analog attenuators do not go to either of the recommended settings.

An explanation of the recommended analog attenuation settings:

" At the input side, the +4dBu button sets the input gain to –8dB, which translates to approximately
20dB of digital headroom (20dB below 0dBFS). Remember that the +4dBu number represents a
signal level read on an average responding indicator (i.e. VU meter), and the metering in the 8824
responds to peaks. If the +4dBu signal has a 20dB peak to average ratio, then this means that the signal

peaks correspond to +24dBu. If the program material allows, either due to your mixing style, com-
pression or limiting, or just the material itself, you may wish to reduce the amount of headroom to

place the signal as high as possible within the converter’s dynamic range window. Likewise, for espe-
cially dynamic signals, you may want to increase the amount of headroom allowed for these signals.

For –10dBV signals, the –10dBV button sets the input gain to +4dB, which again translates to
approximately 20 dB of dynamic range. The numbers may seem to be off until you recall that a
–10dBV signal is the same as a –7.8dBu signal (1V = 0dBV and 1V = +2.2dBu).
For both input and output, there is up to 31dB of gain or 95dB of attenuation available."


...again... my midi version doesn't appear to default to either of these.

... are you setting dip switch 1 correctly when using the config software?

I'm not sure if any of this is helpful... by my experience has been similar with the midi version not sticking.

If you the rs-232 version, I'd be curious what my software says your setting are.

If you have the midi version... .and just want to try setting the analog IO torecommended +4 levels.... assuming your lucid has it's unit # set to 0... you can send it the midi sysex command:
F0 00 00 5E 58 00 30 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 61 61 61 61 61 61 61 61 F7

....the protocol is documented... let me know if I can help.
Thank you for this information! I actually used to have one if the the RS-232 versions but got rid of it because the DA levels were really hot and we ended up getting midi capable ones thinking that would be easier to control via the software. I’m pretty sure the brand new Lucid I got in 2005 came standard with the DA’s at +20dBu since I was always able to use it along side the DAC in my old Central Station that was also at +20dBu. I don’t know what the AD’s were calibrated to but these days I usually prefer to have mine calibrated at +24 so I can drive my preamps the way .

I would ideally like to have my DA’s at +20dBu again for every channel. It would be nice to have some flexibility on AD levels but +24 would be fine if it was just set and good to go.

As far as dip switch 1 setting, where should it be when using the software?
Old 13th December 2018
  #8
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Dip switch should be down (remote) when configuring with software.... and, in theory (works on my rs-232), returned to up (local)... and the settings will be stored.

For the gain values:

"
The gain value is a 7-bit number (from 0 to 7F) which provides gain control in 1dB increments from -95dB to +31dB. With the input gain set to -8dB (hex 58), a +4dBu input translates to approximately -20dbFS (i.e. 20dB digital headroom). With the input gain set to +4dB (hex 64), a -10dBV input translates to approximately -20dbFS (again, 20dB of digital headroom). Similarly, with the output gain set to +1dB (hex 61), a -20dBFS input translates to approximately +4dBu into 600ohms. With the output gain set to -11dB (hex 55), a -20dBFS input translates to approximately -10dBV. In both of these cases, the actual headroom before clipping depends on the inputs of the mixer, power amplifier, etc, that the 8824 is driving.
"

... so I believe for +20dB (doing this off my head... not looking at my source code :-) ... .you would want hex value 74 (decimal 116.... ie... 127 is MAX +31... ).... So if you wanted to set the outputs to +20dB you could use the midi sysex command:
F0 00 00 5E 58 00 30 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 74 74 74 74 74 74 74 74 F7

I'm not really sure how to translate to dbU.... but the command above is:
F0 - start
00 00 5e - lucid
58 - 8824
00 - unit 0
30 - set analog levels
58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 - set the 8 inputs to -8dB (recommended for +4dBu)
74 74 74 74 74 74 74 74 - set the 8 outputs to +20dB
F7 - end

....should be enough for you to set it to anything you want...

Last edited by streber; 13th December 2018 at 10:59 PM.. Reason: didn't notice he mentioned input levels dbU
Old 14th December 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streber View Post
Dip switch should be down (remote) when configuring with software.... and, in theory (works on my rs-232), returned to up (local)... and the settings will be stored.

For the gain values:

"
The gain value is a 7-bit number (from 0 to 7F) which provides gain control in 1dB increments from -95dB to +31dB. With the input gain set to -8dB (hex 58), a +4dBu input translates to approximately -20dbFS (i.e. 20dB digital headroom). With the input gain set to +4dB (hex 64), a -10dBV input translates to approximately -20dbFS (again, 20dB of digital headroom). Similarly, with the output gain set to +1dB (hex 61), a -20dBFS input translates to approximately +4dBu into 600ohms. With the output gain set to -11dB (hex 55), a -20dBFS input translates to approximately -10dBV. In both of these cases, the actual headroom before clipping depends on the inputs of the mixer, power amplifier, etc, that the 8824 is driving.
"

... so I believe for +20dB (doing this off my head... not looking at my source code :-) ... .you would want hex value 74 (decimal 116.... ie... 127 is MAX +31... ).... So if you wanted to set the outputs to +20dB you could use the midi sysex command:
F0 00 00 5E 58 00 30 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 74 74 74 74 74 74 74 74 F7

I'm not really sure how to translate to dbU.... but the command above is:
F0 - start
00 00 5e - lucid
58 - 8824
00 - unit 0
30 - set analog levels
58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 - set the 8 inputs to -8dB (recommended for +4dBu)
74 74 74 74 74 74 74 74 - set the 8 outputs to +20dB
F7 - end

....should be enough for you to set it to anything you want...
I will give this a shot first thing tomorrow! So if I wanted change input 7-8 to be 6db hotter (+18 instead of +24) then I would just change it to:
F0 00 00 5E 58 00 30 58 58 58 58 58 58 64 64 74 74 74 74 74 74 74 74 F7

Is that correct?
Old 14th December 2018
  #10
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close!

58 in hex is 88
64 in hex is 100.... 12 dB hotter.

So, hex to 'gain' would be:
convert hex -> decimal -> subtract 96....

so 58 in hex is 88, subtract 96 = -8dB
61 in hex is 97, subtract 96 = +1dB

reversing it:
+20dB + 96 = 116 = 74 in hex.
Old 14th December 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streber View Post
close!

58 in hex is 88
64 in hex is 100.... 12 dB hotter.

So, hex to 'gain' would be:
convert hex -> decimal -> subtract 96....

so 58 in hex is 88, subtract 96 = -8dB
61 in hex is 97, subtract 96 = +1dB

reversing it:
+20dB + 96 = 116 = 74 in hex.
So I’m not quite following how to convert everything with the hex numbers. If I wanted my AD’s to +18dBu what hex number would that be?

My current setup has adjustable AD/DA levels and I am looking to do a 1:1 test of it compared to the Lucid so I would need to have the outs be +20 dBu and have a stereo input return on the 8824 at +18 (for mix printing) but the rest of the inputs set 6db quieter to +24 for tracking.

Also, could you walk me through how the sysex dump works exactly?

-Is the Lucid on when I do this?
-what sysex program do I need to send the info? (I’m on Mac OSX High Sierra OR Mavericks if needed and have a midisport 2X2 for going from USB to Midi)

In my mind I turn the Lucid off, switch down the first dip switch, dump the text into the Lucid via a sysex program, flip the 1st dip switch up, and turn on the Lucid and it should be correct or should the Lucid be on when I do this? And if I do it correctly, will the settings stay put or will I need to perform the sysex dump procedure every time I turn them off?

Is there anything else I’m missing here? And again, thank you so much for your help. I’m going to try and test it out tomorrow first thing so fingers crossed!
Old 14th December 2018
  #12
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So, the settings for the lucid are gain settings in dB... not dBu or dBV... you can set these to be -95dB to +31dB.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying the central station is +20dbu.

The recommended settings for the lucid if you are interfacing with +4dbu gear is:
-8dB on input
+1dB on output

Using the formula I gave below these would be hex values 58 and 61:
-8 + 96 = 88(dec) = 58(hex)
+1 + 96 = 97(dec) = 61(hex)

So, for studio calibration... for outs, I would start with +1dB.

My method of calibration is to get digital signals at around -18dbFS hit my analog gear at about 0dBu.

ie. A tone at my board at 0dBu is set to hit my converters so they register -18dbFS... and then return to my board at 0dBu (and I can choose to use the gain on the lucids... or my board if adjustment is needed).

Irrespective, the lucid only takes a dB argument....

Turn the lucid off.
Flip dip switch down 1.
Dip switches 5,6,7 should also be down... to indicate your device Id=0
Turn the lucid on.

With the lucid on... send the sysex command.... (no dump involved... the lucid doesn't send back any response).

The lucid's gain values will change immediately.
I would stop there.... no real need to shut it off...

I can't recommend how to send the command (I use linux... and the command 'amidi') but a quick google suggests there's free software for osx called 'sysex librarian'... you may want to try that.
Old 14th December 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streber View Post
So, the settings for the lucid are gain settings in dB... not dBu or dBV... you can set these to be -95dB to +31dB.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying the central station is +20dbu.

The recommended settings for the lucid if you are interfacing with +4dbu gear is:
-8dB on input
+1dB on output

Using the formula I gave below these would be hex values 58 and 61:
-8 + 96 = 88(dec) = 58(hex)
+1 + 96 = 97(dec) = 61(hex)

So, for studio calibration... for outs, I would start with +1dB.

My method of calibration is to get digital signals at around -18dbFS hit my analog gear at about 0dBu.

ie. A tone at my board at 0dBu is set to hit my converters so they register -18dbFS... and then return to my board at 0dBu (and I can choose to use the gain on the lucids... or my board if adjustment is needed).

Irrespective, the lucid only takes a dB argument....

Turn the lucid off.
Flip dip switch down 1.
Dip switches 5,6,7 should also be down... to indicate your device Id=0
Turn the lucid on.

With the lucid on... send the sysex command.... (no dump involved... the lucid doesn't send back any response).

The lucid's gain values will change immediately.
I would stop there.... no real need to shut it off...

I can't recommend how to send the command (I use linux... and the command 'amidi') but a quick google suggests there's free software for osx called 'sysex librarian'... you may want to try that.
Well I had hoped I was more competent than this but I can't figure out how to generate a .syx file to load into Sysex Librarian so I can send the code to the 8824. I have been searching for answers on Google and can't figure it out for the life of me.
Old 14th December 2018
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I found a Midi Tools program and I think I sent the Hex Data to the Lucid. Gonna get the Lucid plugged into my system and see what that levels are looking like.
Old 15th December 2018
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So we have been working on this for hours now and have tried doing this SEVERAL different ways and it does not appear the midi info is affecting or reaching the Lucid. The MidiSport shows that we are sending a signal but we can't get the levels on either of the two Lucid's to change. The AD levels on both units seem to mostly balanced which makes sense because these have just been being used to track drums. The DA levels are all out of whack on both units on some of the channels. Some of them are correct, others are anywhere from 0.5db quieter to 13.2db quieter (and other odd amounts in between).

I guess it's possible that there is just a hardware issue with both of these units that only affects some of the DA's, but it's odd that we can't get the levels to change using the Sysex Commands. And the old Lucid Software running MIDI on an old G4 Mac Latptop does interact with the Lucid and is capable of changing the levels...they are just not correct from channel to channel.
Old 15th December 2018
  #16
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Well, I just fired up a mac and pulled out the midi 8824...


I was not able to get this to work with sysex librarian.

The same hex values I send to my unit via Linux using the 'amidi' utility, and work, do not work with sysex librarian.

So, you may just not yet have the right tool...

Incidentally, you may try playing with a setting like 'metering or sync'... which you would see the change immediately on the front of the unit.

For example:
amidi -p hw:1,0,0 -S 'F0 00 00 5E 58 00 21 01 F7'
.... sets my sync to word clock
amidi -p hw:1,0,0 -S 'F0 00 00 5E 58 00 21 02 F7'
....sets my sync to 44.1

.... again, these work with the 'amidi' command... but I tried to create a hex file and could not get it to work with sysex librarian.

just an update... I spent a bunch of time with OSX... and I can't seem to get the lucid to respond to sysex commands that I know work (I tried MidiTools also, and even used a hex editor to write .syx files)....

Perhaps boot a linux vm and try 'amidi' or my app? (or someone who know OSX and midi a bit better can chime in?)
Old 16th December 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streber View Post
Well, I just fired up a mac and pulled out the midi 8824...


I was not able to get this to work with sysex librarian.

The same hex values I send to my unit via Linux using the 'amidi' utility, and work, do not work with sysex librarian.

So, you may just not yet have the right tool...

Incidentally, you may try playing with a setting like 'metering or sync'... which you would see the change immediately on the front of the unit.

For example:
amidi -p hw:1,0,0 -S 'F0 00 00 5E 58 00 21 01 F7'
.... sets my sync to word clock
amidi -p hw:1,0,0 -S 'F0 00 00 5E 58 00 21 02 F7'
....sets my sync to 44.1

.... again, these work with the 'amidi' command... but I tried to create a hex file and could not get it to work with sysex librarian.

just an update... I spent a bunch of time with OSX... and I can't seem to get the lucid to respond to sysex commands that I know work (I tried MidiTools also, and even used a hex editor to write .syx files)....

Perhaps boot a linux vm and try 'amidi' or my app? (or someone who know OSX and midi a bit better can chime in?)
So we got Lucid’s PC Software to work but it resets if you shut the Lucid down. I haven’t been able to test if the DA level issue I’m having can be fixed by the app yet (I’ll test it ASAP) but would I be correct in assuming that if I had the Discreet RS-232 version of the 8824 that your app would leave the settings in place when I switch the 8824 off and back on? Would it also leave the settings in place when disconnected from the app?
Old 16th December 2018
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post
So we got Lucid’s PC Software to work but it resets if you shut the Lucid down. I haven’t been able to test if the DA level issue I’m having can be fixed by the app yet (I’ll test it ASAP) but would I be correct in assuming that if I had the Discreet RS-232 version of the 8824 that your app would leave the settings in place when I switch the 8824 off and back on? Would it also leave the settings in place when disconnected from the app?
I can only say "that has been my experience".

That said, my software: glucid and xglucid, don't do any 'special magic'... they both simply send similar commands we have been discussing, but over a serial connection (please feel free to browse the source code on github, which shows all the available commands and how they are implemented).. and I've released these tools for free without any warranty whatsoever... If there's a problem, I'll give my best effort to fix, but can't make any guarantees.

It would be really great if other 8824 owners could chime in about their experiences with settings sticking... are our midi units broken, or are you expected to 'refresh' the gain settings each time you power up the unit? ... the manual is not clear...
Old 16th December 2018
  #19
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This Article - translated from Japanese suggests that old caps in the 8824 lead to channel level variations...

Here's links to the schematics...
Old 23rd December 2018
  #20
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So I ordered an RS-232 Lucid 8824 to test to get to the bottom of this. Hopefully I can get it calibrated and make the settings stick via the app.
Old 23rd December 2018
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post
So I ordered an RS-232 Lucid 8824 to test to get to the bottom of this. Hopefully I can get it calibrated and make the settings stick via the app.
I'm interested in finding out what happens.

FYI, I hope to make another software release shortly after the holidays to address:

- I paid the hundred bucks to join the apple dev program, so I can sign my app with Apple (so when you install it you won't get scary warnings about apps downloaded from unknown developers)

- I want to distribute a pre-built command-line version, which I find super convenient.

- The way the GUI works right now, when you click 'write'... it writes all the settings and then reads them all... sometimes this takes too long and OSX thinks the program is hung and kills it... I just probably need to do this work in a background thread... that said, usually when it's killed, it's after writing and during reading.... so when you relaunch you just read back to make sure what you wrote stuck....

Hopefully I'll get this out before you receive your new unit...
Old 29th December 2018
  #22
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Questions

Hi guys, my first post on Gearslutz! I'm happy I found that thread, I learned a lot! I just got an ADA8824 (midi/ADAT Sync) and I think there is a bug or a problem with the unit, any help would be greatly appreciated.

When turning on the ADA8842 in local mode (switch 1 up), aren't the analog input supposed to have the exact same level? On mine, it does on analog out's but not on analog in's.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the memory of an ADA8824 midi unit can't be writen via midi, right? So that's why I'm thinking that all the level should be the same when operating in local mode, meaning factory level.

I've spent the last 48 hours trying to figure out why, on local mode, the analog input on my newly acquired unit are not calibrated. Via midi with the software, I'm able to remote control every parameters except the analog levels. When I do so, the machine switch in 44khz for no reason. I also try to change the level via Sysex. Same thing, same result. I just get rambled scrambled level, never the same, always a surprise.

I then install the Lucid software on another computer, Win XP, with an "old" Tascam US-144. Same result for both test. Can't adjust the analog in/out levels on the machine. When I send the sysex, I never get the same level result even if the sysex is the exact same. Weird.

I'm clueless, I wanted to try Streber's tool but I don't know how to deal with Python and haven't been able to figure it out yet.

It might be some caps that need to be replaced also, after 20 years it's possible.

Anyhow, thanks for all the great information
Old 5th January 2019
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streber View Post
I'm interested in finding out what happens.

FYI, I hope to make another software release shortly after the holidays to address:

- I paid the hundred bucks to join the apple dev program, so I can sign my app with Apple (so when you install it you won't get scary warnings about apps downloaded from unknown developers)

- I want to distribute a pre-built command-line version, which I find super convenient.

- The way the GUI works right now, when you click 'write'... it writes all the settings and then reads them all... sometimes this takes too long and OSX thinks the program is hung and kills it... I just probably need to do this work in a background thread... that said, usually when it's killed, it's after writing and during reading.... so when you relaunch you just read back to make sure what you wrote stuck....

Hopefully I'll get this out before you receive your new unit...
So I got an RS232 Lucid 8824 and the usb to serial adapter and i was able to get your software working on an an Windows 7 PC. When I change the clock setting in the app and click "write" it changes to whatever I put in. Then if i change the AD/DA levels and hit write it goes through the whole process but the levels just return to whatever they were in the app once it's done. I haven't tested to see if the settings actually stuck but I was wondering if this is normal behavior for the AD/DA to reset like that in the app?

I returned the first dip switch to "up" after doing it everything so hopefully it will work?
Old 5th January 2019
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post
So I got an RS232 Lucid 8824 and the usb to serial adapter and i was able to get your software working on an an Windows 7 PC. When I change the clock setting in the app and click "write" it changes to whatever I put in. Then if i change the AD/DA levels and hit write it goes through the whole process but the levels just return to whatever they were in the app once it's done. I haven't tested to see if the settings actually stuck but I was wondering if this is normal behavior for the AD/DA to reset like that in the app?

I returned the first dip switch to "up" after doing it everything so hopefully it will work?

No, this does not sound right to me...

I've made some changes to the code, but haven't made a new 'release' yet because signing the code with my Apple credentials is proving to be more of a learning process than I thought...

When the app starts, all the values should be 'disabled' until you click 'read'.

When you click 'read' the UI is updated with values from your Lucid.
When you click 'write', the values are written, then read again.... and the UI updated.

So, if when you click 'write' it returns to the old values (and similarly if you restart the app and click 'read' and it shows the old values), then I would say they were not written successfully.

To write values, you will need the correct device ID also.... which would be 0, if dip switches 5,6 and 7 are all down.

If you return dip switch 1 to the up position, your gain values should stick, but the other settings would come from dip switches...

I've changed the code and now clicking 'write' simply writes the values and disables the UI... and you have to click 'read' again to read them.

The new release is here:
Release v0.3.2: Small bugfixes, releases Command Line binary * danmechanic/glucid * GitHub

... but still not signed OSX code...

There is the command line utility, which I think is very useful to simply read the current values.

Something like (windows):
glucid -d COM1 -g

(or mac):
glucid -d /dev/tty.usbserial -g

...this also will show what your Lucid says it's ID is.
Old 5th January 2019
  #25
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by John James View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but the memory of an ADA8824 midi unit can't be writen via midi, right? So that's why I'm thinking that all the level should be the same when operating in local mode, meaning factory level.

I've spent the last 48 hours trying to figure out why, on local mode, the analog input on my newly acquired unit are not calibrated. Via midi with the software, I'm able to remote control every parameters except the analog levels.
So, we haven't been able to figure that out! I can't get midi versions to hold gain changes...

It _may_ be due to bad caps, or design, I'm not sure!
Old 5th January 2019
  #26
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shelterr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by streber View Post
No, this does not sound right to me...

I've made some changes to the code, but haven't made a new 'release' yet because signing the code with my Apple credentials is proving to be more of a learning process than I thought...

When the app starts, all the values should be 'disabled' until you click 'read'.

When you click 'read' the UI is updated with values from your Lucid.
When you click 'write', the values are written, then read again.... and the UI updated.

So, if when you click 'write' it returns to the old values (and similarly if you restart the app and click 'read' and it shows the old values), then I would say they were not written successfully.

To write values, you will need the correct device ID also.... which would be 0, if dip switches 5,6 and 7 are all down.

If you return dip switch 1 to the up position, your gain values should stick, but the other settings would come from dip switches...

I've changed the code and now clicking 'write' simply writes the values and disables the UI... and you have to click 'read' again to read them.

The new release is here:
Release v0.3.2: Small bugfixes, releases Command Line binary * danmechanic/glucid * GitHub

... but still not signed OSX code...

There is the command line utility, which I think is very useful to simply read the current values.

Something like (windows):
glucid -d COM1 -g

(or mac):
glucid -d /dev/tty.usbserial -g

...this also will show what your Lucid says it's ID is.
So after switching 567 down to have the correct unit ID, it appears the AD/DA settings are reading. I won't be able to check if they actually held until a few days from now but it's looking promising!
Old 23rd January 2019
  #27
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shelterr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by streber View Post
So, we haven't been able to figure that out! I can't get midi versions to hold gain changes...

It _may_ be due to bad caps, or design, I'm not sure!
So even though I have been able to get the 8824 to read and write the settings as I have changed them in the app and communicate with unit, the actual levels on the unit remain unchanged, no matter what I set them to.

I feel like I am very close to being able to properly calibrate this thing but there must be something I am missing. Now that I have a properly working unit with the app on a Windows 7 machine, would it be possible for you to walk me through the EXACT steps to get this to work. Down to what order to do everything in and which dip switches go where and in what order? The devil has GOT to be in the details on this and I would really like to be able to calibrate these 8824's.
Old 23rd January 2019
  #28
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post
So even though I have been able to get the 8824 to read and write the settings as I have changed them in the app and communicate with unit, the actual levels on the unit remain unchanged, no matter what I set them to.
So, I just set up everything...

...and I owe you a big apology.

Big bug.

At first, I thought I was seeing what you were seeing.... and thought the values really were not changing... and I was ripping my hair out.

Looking back at the manual:

"for each analog I/O channel, ordered with inputs
first, then outputs, and reverse ordered from channels 8 through 1 for both inputs and outputs."

I can't believe I never noticed this before... are you setting all the channels to the same value, or just messing with one?

So, the bug is that when you are adjusting channel 1... you are really adjusting 8... and so on.

I will make a software update, please accept my sincere apology. It might take a couple of days.

In the meantime, could you also see if you can get the gain to change given that 1->8 , 2->7 ... and so on?... is it NOT working or is it just setting the wrong channel?

The gain values change for me immediately and stick through a power cycle.
Old 24th January 2019
  #29
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shelterr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by streber View Post
So, I just set up everything...

...and I owe you a big apology.

Big bug.

At first, I thought I was seeing what you were seeing.... and thought the values really were not changing... and I was ripping my hair out.

Looking back at the manual:

"for each analog I/O channel, ordered with inputs
first, then outputs, and reverse ordered from channels 8 through 1 for both inputs and outputs."

I can't believe I never noticed this before... are you setting all the channels to the same value, or just messing with one?

So, the bug is that when you are adjusting channel 1... you are really adjusting 8... and so on.

I will make a software update, please accept my sincere apology. It might take a couple of days.

In the meantime, could you also see if you can get the gain to change given that 1->8 , 2->7 ... and so on?... is it NOT working or is it just setting the wrong channel?

The gain values change for me immediately and stick through a power cycle.
I adjusted all of the levels at once and still nothing actually changed on the unit.
Old 24th January 2019
  #30
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post
I adjusted all of the levels at once and still nothing actually changed on the unit.
Hmm.

So, I'm working on a release... but I'm cleaning up a few things... and I'll add in some debug stuff so we can troubleshoot further...

But although the bug is silly, the levels certainly change.

To be clear; are you changing input or output gain, or both?

How are you checking for the change?

Do obvious changes like 'clock sync' which are reflected on the front face of the Lucid work, or none?

Are you leaving the unit in remote mode? (all switches down) ... (I guess shouldn't matter... because for me changes happen immediately...)

Just as a note: when you add output gain, the front meter of the lucid will NOT change... even if you are metering 'analog out'.... however the output gain WILL change (I just confirmed this a little while ago to make sure both input and output gain changes work)

Let me know how you are checking for changes... and if the obvious ones work.

Thanks
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