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Regarding analog consoles...
Old 13th October 2018
  #1
Gear Head
 

Regarding analog consoles...

My production partner and I are finishing a professional home studio build in the next month or so and have been seriously considering getting a small analog console (our control room is only 14x10 but proper build - floated floors, room within a room, cloud etc.)

We like the new Sphere console in production as well as some smaller vintage desks we have found online. Studio will most likely be used about 70% tracking and 30% mixing.

Wondering if anyone has any input on either A. which console we should be looking at under $40k; or B. would it be wiser to forget the console and use the money for outboard gear? which would provide for more variety when tracking
Old 13th October 2018
  #2
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EvilRoy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnetko View Post
My production partner and I are finishing a professional home studio build in the next month or so and have been seriously considering getting a small analog console (our control room is only 14x10 but proper build - floated floors, room within a room, cloud etc.)

We like the new Sphere console in production as well as some smaller vintage desks we have found online. Studio will most likely be used about 70% tracking and 30% mixing.

Wondering if anyone has any input on either A. which console we should be looking at under $40k; or B. would it be wiser to forget the console and use the money for outboard gear? which would provide for more variety when tracking
How big/small, channels? You can pick up a nice little vintage Studer for around $4k and spend the rest on outboard.
Old 13th October 2018
  #3
My console purchase (an API 1608) was the best thing I ever did. And the good news is there are some fantastic small format consoles on the market right now in your price range: API, RND, Tree Audio, Trident. Take your pic.
Old 14th October 2018
  #4
Gear Head
 

That’s good to hear Trev... what is your workflow with the console like? Tracking through it, main mix ITB, then sending stems back out to console for summing?

EDIT: My buddy and I seem to have come to a decision and will most likely be holding off on the console for now. It will almost surely happen down the road, but for the time being we will be focusing on filling outboard racks
Old 14th October 2018
  #5
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnetko View Post
EDIT: My buddy and I seem to have come to a decision and will most likely be holding off on the console for now. It will almost surely happen down the road, but for the time being we will be focusing on filling outboard racks
from my perspective...having sold pro audio for 45 years, that is clearly not the recipe for success .

Trev committed to a console and tracking space. That to me is the answer. He can add all the trendy and vintage outboard he wants as the business flourishes...but it's built on a solid foundation.
Old 14th October 2018
  #6
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEHARRIS View Post
from my perspective...having sold pro audio for 45 years, that is clearly not the recipe for success .

Trev committed to a console and tracking space. That to me is the answer. He can add all the trendy and vintage outboard he wants as the business flourishes...but it's built on a solid foundation.
What is not the recipe for success?
You must have misunderstood me... I was referring to my personal situation. I’m saying my production partner and I have decided to wait before buying a console. I wasn’t commenting on Trev’s studio or preferences or business or priorities other than asking what his workflow is like.
Old 15th October 2018
  #7
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i own and use both a large analog (mci jh500) and a digital desk (studer vista1) - hope you can agree that both aren't that bad...

although i'm very much used to the mci (after spending some 35 years on analog desks from amek, calrec, midas, neve, soundcraft, ssl, studer, tascam, trident, yamaha etc.) and i like the sound i'm getting a lot, analog consoles have become pretty much useless other than to attract a specific clientel (i then of course also use tape).

digital desks are possibly the least hyped gear you can find (at least when compared to the much over-hyped analog summing boxes), yet there is a good reason why they are getting used for broadcasting in high pressure situations: you get tricky things done at the highest level, very fast and efficient. their feature set is far beyond any analog desk and even daw's in some areas: how about 32 mono and 16 stereo auxes, hunderts of channels, dozens of groups/matrices/dcs's, multiple master busses in different formats etc.?

i'm using my digital console in the studio, live, for remote recording, broadcasting so it gets far more use than the analog console - and makes me some money (while the analog console costs me money).

depending on your needs you maybe wanna give you console choice another thought.

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 15th October 2018 at 09:08 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 16th October 2018
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnetko View Post
That’s good to hear Trev... what is your workflow with the console like? Tracking through it, main mix ITB, then sending stems back out to console for summing?

EDIT: My buddy and I seem to have come to a decision and will most likely be holding off on the console for now. It will almost surely happen down the road, but for the time being we will be focusing on filling outboard racks
Only when there's no budget or Im expecting lots of recalls. Where there's a budget and/or I'm producing, I do EQ cuts ITB and compress individual tracks using hardware plugins but do EQ boosts on the desk, compress busses on the desk and sum on the desk.
Old 16th October 2018
  #9
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Only when there's no budget or Im expecting lots of recalls. Where there's a budget and/or I'm producing, I do EQ cuts ITB and compress individual tracks using hardware plugins but do EQ boosts on the desk, compress busses on the desk and sum on the desk.
Yes that sounds just about like our ideal workflow... I assume you are hitting an ADC and printing back to your DAW? Mind if I ask which you are using?
Old 16th October 2018
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnetko View Post
Yes that sounds just about like our ideal workflow... I assume you are hitting an ADC and printing back to your DAW? Mind if I ask which you are using?
Burl Mothership
Old 16th October 2018
  #11
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Mothership here too.. Stopped thinking about AD/DA!
Old 17th October 2018
  #12
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GYang's Avatar
Whenever I can I do analog console (currently Neve 5088), whenever I can't (time-space) I do ITB (currently Lenovo-Cubase-moded RME UFX).
It doesn't reflect dramatically what will be the end result (not day-night difference, of course).
But I truly enjoy only OTB, computer related part of work always seems more like a prep.
This is where the 150-200k difference + good space kicks in.
I suppose many people simple never experienced that long enough and don't care. What's entirely fine.
Old 17th October 2018
  #13
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myles's Avatar
 

If you're just starting out, having some or all of that $40k console budget as a reserve isn't the worst thing you can do. Not sure what your circumstances are, or your business plan, or your preferences for workflow. Or - is this studio for you and your production partner, or are you renting it out?

All things being equal, it's great having a console. They look great, they're a great option to have, they can provide you with a bunch of good-quality pre's and, in some cases (depending on your console), can be a draw for clients to come to your studio. But, unless you're really used to working with a console and prefer it, or your clients prefer or insist, they're simply not necessary these days. Great to have, but not necessary except in very specific circumstances.

It sounds like you've already made your decision, though, so best of luck and enjoy the new studio!
Old 17th October 2018
  #14
Gear Head
 

Thanks for all the replies so far.. Our studio will essentially be nothing more than a private production studio. No worry about making it commercial friendly or drawing in clientele etc.

For the time being we have decided to wait before getting a console. Instead we are going to be getting a lot of flavors of outboard pre’s / comps. (We’ve come up with a pretty slutty list so I’m just as excited for some of that stuff as I would be for a console )
Old 17th October 2018
  #15
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

30k buys a lot of console these days and the extra 10 is perfect for shipping and I stalk ruin and incidental tech work.
Old 17th October 2018
  #16
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut View Post
30k buys a lot of console these days and the extra 10 is perfect for shipping and I stalk ruin and incidental tech work.
It certainly appears that way... What do you mean by “I stalk ruin and incidental tech work.” ?
Old 17th October 2018
  #17
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Typo.. damn iPhone !

I meant installation
Old 17th October 2018
  #18
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myles's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut View Post
Typo.. damn iPhone !

I meant installation
I liked "I stalk ruin" better...
Old 18th October 2018
  #19
Gear Head
 

Solid State Logic AWS 900

I recently got a used SSL AWS 900, and it's the best thing I ever purchased! I'm mostly mixing, but I'm certain it would be great for recording as well. I love the sound, love the total recall, love the routing, love the look, etc.
Old 29th October 2018
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevemachine View Post
I recently got a used SSL AWS 900, and it's the best thing I ever purchased! I'm mostly mixing, but I'm certain it would be great for recording as well. I love the sound, love the total recall, love the routing, love the look, etc.
Does this mean you need to change your name...?
Old 29th October 2018
  #21
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnetko View Post
My production partner and I are finishing a professional home studio build in the next month or so and have been seriously considering getting a small analog console (our control room is only 14x10 but proper build - floated floors, room within a room, cloud etc.)

We like the new Sphere console in production as well as some smaller vintage desks we have found online. Studio will most likely be used about 70% tracking and 30% mixing.

Wondering if anyone has any input on either A. which console we should be looking at under $40k; or B. would it be wiser to forget the console and use the money for outboard gear? which would provide for more variety when tracking
I know you said you’re delaying a console purchase, but have you heard the new Sphere console? (I’m neutral, as I haven’t heard it.)
Old 29th October 2018
  #22
Gear Addict
 

I'd get a console if I had that cash available.
You could get a used ssl aws or 4k for about 30k.
Old 29th October 2018
  #23
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
I know you said you’re delaying a console purchase, but have you heard the new Sphere console? (I’m neutral, as I haven’t heard it.)
I haven’t heard the console itself but I have heard the 500 series pres which sound excellent... I guess they are remaking the 900 series graphic eq’s for the console too which should be tasty if they come anywhere close to the originals.
Old 29th October 2018
  #24
Gear Head
 

Solid State Logic Machine

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Does this mean you need to change your name...?
Probably.
Old 29th October 2018
  #25
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut View Post
...I stalk ruin
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnetko View Post
What do you mean by “I stalk ruin..."?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut View Post
Typo.. damn iPhone! I meant installation
Quote:
Originally Posted by myles View Post
I liked "I stalk ruin" better...
+1

Wiggy - would it be OK if I use 'I Stalk Ruin' as my new band name, or at least a track title?

I'll give you an album credit for the typo, and obviously break down in tears as I mention you in my Grammy acceptance speech.

You couldn't make it up, as they say!
Old 29th October 2018
  #26
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

By all means !
Old 29th October 2018
  #27
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myles's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann View Post
+1

Wiggy - would it be OK if I use 'I Stalk Ruin' as my new band name, or at least a track title?

I'll give you an album credit for the typo, and obviously break down in tears as I mention you in my Grammy acceptance speech.

You couldn't make it up, as they say!
Beat me to it!
Old 16th November 2018
  #28
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnetko View Post
My production partner and I are finishing a professional home studio build in the next month or so and have been seriously considering getting a small analog console (our control room is only 14x10 but proper build - floated floors, room within a room, cloud etc.)

We like the new Sphere console in production as well as some smaller vintage desks we have found online. Studio will most likely be used about 70% tracking and 30% mixing.

Wondering if anyone has any input on either A. which console we should be looking at under $40k; or B. would it be wiser to forget the console and use the money for outboard gear? which would provide for more variety when tracking

There may be no need to decide between A and B.
The Ark8 is well under 40K, leaving enough money for outboard, which can be installed in the console (if the outboard are 500 modules).

The Ark8 has full support for 500 modules (or 51x modules), and can be any size you want.
Attached is picture of a 24 channel inline configuration (so 48 inputs total) with space for 64 500 modules.
Smaller or larger configurations are possible, whatever you fancy.

Cheers
Bruno
arkconsole.com
Attached Thumbnails
Regarding analog consoles...-ark8_24ch_1.jpg  
Old 16th November 2018
  #29
Gear Nut
 
Jpastor's Avatar
 

i've got a 32in/8 groups/4masters studer 903 here, and man i never ever want to get rid of it. You said you wanted to hold off the console and get gear right now, but you also say that you will be 70% tracking : there is nothing better to track than a good console. i do all my mixes as good as i can ITB, then when time comes i do an OTB mix. Then we let some days go and decide which one is best, but there is nothing like being on the desk, most of the time it's the best mix (i'm a producer/artist so used this workflow for my own music).

here are the priorities for you IMHO :

- Getting the acoustic and sound (this includes monitoring) to be as good as possible, before buying any outboard gear. You cannot use properly ANY gear in a sonically poor room.

- Getting a good console (it's useless to get an average console, it won't be worth it compared to ITB, especially with the easy workflow of ITB, it has to be really worth it to go through the trouble of analog), especially if you will be tracking, you will actually save on gear i guess.

- Getting high end gear to add on later, to fill needs (in my opinion it's better to buy only very high quality gear, especially for mixing, the computer can beat most of the mediocre quality gear.)



good luck in your project
Old 16th November 2018
  #30
Gear Addict
 

If I had 40k to spend on a console I'd be looking at either a used ssl aws or a 4k ssl.
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