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Anybody record rock drums using ONLY classic condensers? Condenser Microphones
Old 24th September 2018
  #31
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by balanceman View Post
unless you have used these mics before, it will slow down your setup time considerably.
I would say go with what you know and use something fancy on overheads.
Also, as a studio owner, there is nothing I hate to see more than a freelance engineer get excited about my most expensive microphones and immediately want to put them inches from a drum!! Hell no!! There are many reasons why a lot of the mics WON'T work on close drums. $$$ is only a small reason but is also a HUGE reason!!
"Sorry the drummer killed your U87. I guess he just hits really hard!"
"I thought your u47 would work great on the kick but it stopped making sound after a few minutes... what? a FET 47? Oh! my bad!"

etc etc

Dynamic mics work so well on close mics. I spent a year or two with 414s on toms and similar, but at what cost? And is it an "improved" sound? in some ways yes and others no....
Will high SPL ever actually kill a well-made condenser? Kick drum I could see this happening perhaps.. But are these older condensers actually more fragile than current iterations of the same models?

I have for years heard mentions of tom and snare mics getting whacked by a drum stick, but this has never happened to me in a session of recording my drummer and we've done this many times now. Even with close micing the drummer has plenty of clearance to hit his target.. I'm using typical dynamics 57, 421s so it wouldn't matter if it did happen, but I don't think my drummer has ever once missed the drum head so badly that he struck one of the mics..

And even so, a drum stick is not going to punch through the metal basket around a typical U87 is it? Dent it at worst.. But it seems hard to believe that you could easily break a mic like a U87 with a mere drumstick whack...

Forgive me if that is basely incorrect, but I pretty badly dropped an AKG 451 condenser once: it was on a stand set up for overhead and I accidentally knocked the stand over while adjusting a tom mic and the mic stand fell completely over, so about from an 8 foot height, and the face of the capsule crashed directly on axis into the floor at free fall speed with the added force of a stand coming along with it. It was way more force than that of a drum stick whack. I was horrified at what I had done but upon inspection and testing the mic was totally fine/still perfectly functional, so no one was the wiser (and I still have my job). It wasn't even cosmetically damaged. And that's an SDC without a protective basket. So I wonder how fragile condensers truly are..

-MM
Old 24th September 2018
  #32
Lives for gear
 
roger's Avatar
 

On a great kit with a great drummer good mics are like lingerie......a personal taste thing. You’re gonna have to put em up & listen and decide for yourself. But be careful: a friend of mine did exactly what you’re about to do and came away with a hefty studio bill and some pretty weird sounding drum tracks.
I understand that’s why you started this thread so if you havn’t the experience with certain mics then lean/rely on the studio staff and/or study your reference records and find out what mics they used (including the drums themselves!).
Too many choices can be a huge hinderance so try to keep it pretty simple, make decisions, “burn the ships” like Cortez did & you’ll be fine!
Old 25th September 2018
  #33
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger View Post
On a great kit with a great drummer good mics are like lingerie......a personal taste thing. You’re gonna have to put em up & listen and decide for yourself. But be careful: a friend of mine did exactly what you’re about to do and came away with a hefty studio bill and some pretty weird sounding drum tracks.
I understand that’s why you started this thread so if you havn’t the experience with certain mics then lean/rely on the studio staff and/or study your reference records and find out what mics they used (including the drums themselves!).
Too many choices can be a huge hinderance so try to keep it pretty simple, make decisions, “burn the ships” like Cortez did & you’ll be fine!
Yeah that's why I wanted to know.. Cause in theory it seems like 'oh it will obviously sound awesome if all the mics are the best mics ever' but of course in an actual application in recording, what we expect to occur so often turns out to be completely different from what actually does occur. So I wanted to get any first hand info from anyone who might have already tried this scheme.

Is your friend in question a GS member? Would love to PM him if possible.

Thanks,

-MM
Old 25th September 2018
  #34
Lives for gear
 

I mean you can use a mic cause it’s an expensive classic or you can use one cause it’s right for the job. I prefer using the one that’s right for the job.
Old 25th September 2018
  #35
Lives for gear
 
roger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Moss View Post
Yeah that's why I wanted to know.. Cause in theory it seems like 'oh it will obviously sound awesome if all the mics are the best mics ever' but of course in an actual application in recording, what we expect to occur so often turns out to be completely different from what actually does occur. So I wanted to get any first hand info from anyone who might have already tried this scheme.

Is your friend in question a GS member? Would love to PM him if possible.

Thanks,

-MM
I don’t think so and it was probably 20’ish years ago now!! (Geez that makes me feel old!). The drummer in the band at the time is actually a very well respected senior ME who IS on GS....but I’m not sure he’d want to be outed on this one. Haha!

Moral to the story is simple and you get the idea: use the classics for what they’re classics for! 67’s for OH’s? 84 on snare?? I’d say no (and I’ve tried!). But that’s me.
If you’re asking for different experiences I’d say:
47fet kick (I have an AT47fet) : deep and clean punch
+
D12e (vintage brown sound that you can blend to taste or use by itself with ambient mics to great effect)
M160 snare
57 snare
87 snare (but make sure it’s safe: a drum stick definitely dents Neumann grills, and Neumann body tubes for that matter!!)
....shoot em out: doesn’t take long but listen in context of your other mics!
Toms: condensers you’ll probably want to gate/automate coz they’ll pick up hats and cymbals which can complicate phase. 84s are nice. 67s would probably be great (I only have 1), hypercardioid dynamics are great, I just bought a pair of AT 230s which I havnt tried yet but I’ve used RE20s for a long time (on rycote mounts) and they sound great! They’re just big.
I don’t mic hats but that’s just me.
OH’s: put up a couple of close monos, some far pairs (I really like brass capsule mics far and wide: they are scooped and deep, they don’t sound cranky and thin like neumanns do the further you get from the kit), I love 4038s close OH pair, I love vintage 414s OHs for a different vibe (still deep thunder but a luxuriously shimmery top - depends what the song/production wants). Try a ribbon mono middle room. Ribbons just flatter rooms beautifully: they stay low and mellow and still capture snare crack nicely.

What sort of production is it? Any songs we can check out?
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