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Reverbs: Bricasti M7, AMS RMX-16, Lexicon 480L & 224 Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 6th September 2018
  #1
Gear Head
 

Reverbs: Bricasti M7, AMS RMX-16, Lexicon 480L & 224

I'm routing these 4 hardware reverb units to the sends of my console for mixing many various styles of music (largely rock). For ease of recall purposes, I was thinking about leaving each of them set to a permanent setting. Obviously, I have plenty of plugin reverbs if I need something else in the mix.

For those of you who are familiar with these classics, what would you set them to for a good variety of reverbs at hand on the console?

I was thinking, maybe something like the following...

Bricasti = Medium/Large Room/Studio
AMS RMX-16 = NonLin2
Lexicon 480L = Large Plate
Lexicon 224 = Small Hall or Chamber
Old 6th September 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevemachine View Post
I was thinking about leaving each of them set to a permanent setting.

Bricasti = Medium/Large Room/Studio
Why do that when you can by the M7 control plugin and have complete session recall and automation?

Bricasti M7 Control — Exponential Audio - Reverb & Effects Plug-ins



-Casey
Old 6th September 2018
  #3
Lives for gear
 

i know quite a few folks who leave their efx on mostly one (modified) preset...

i cannot really comment on your proposal as i'm using a somewhat different approach: my four main efx devices (all from different manufacturers) are set to different room sizes, from very small (with lots of early reflections) to small room/chamber to medium room/hall to large concert hall (with long diffuse reverb tail).

i got tc, lex, sony, quantec - and then of course eventides for the fun part! (sorry casey: like your gear a lot but have no real need for it with what i have... - unless you come up with a m7s=surround version?!)
Old 10th March 2019
  #4
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ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
Why do that when you can by the M7 control plugin and have complete session recall and automation?

Bricasti M7 Control — Exponential Audio - Reverb & Effects Plug-ins



-Casey
Ouch. Not Casey's fault but considering this post is only from Sept 2018, it didn't age well at all.
Old 10th March 2019
  #5
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cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
Why do that when you can by the M7 control plugin and have complete session recall and automation?

Bricasti M7 Control — Exponential Audio - Reverb & Effects Plug-ins



-Casey
As Ionan said..
Because the plugin don't exist anymore and it will not be supported by Bricasti or the third party manufacturer anymore (Exponential Audio) that has 100% control over its own plugin. This about 6 months after that suggestion.

Dangerous business decisions from both companies involved if you ask me.
I don't take these companies "behaviours" well, doesn't resonate at all with my values.

And yes even if you're not part of the "active" decision, is a big issue for your company as well.
It's too easy to say it's their fault and maybe all will end well..
Sorry but I don't recognize the usual Bricasti "mindset" or approach.

Trust is everything for me and it's time that you take your responsibility as well in this story, even if it was another company that took the decision..

Afterall you (Bricasti) choose that they were allowed to collaborate with you/your company and therefore you have a part of responsibility, plus ALL "their" customers (for this plugin) are YOUR customers as well.



Cheu

Last edited by cheu78; 10th March 2019 at 07:09 PM..
Old 10th March 2019
  #6
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Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
As Ionan said..
Because the plugin don't exist anymore and it will not be supported by Bricasti or the third party manufacturer anymore (Exponential Audio) that has 100% control over its own plugin. This about 6 months after that suggestion.

Dangerous business decisions from both companies involved if you ask me.
I don't take these companies "behaviours" well, doesn't resonate at all with my values.

And yes even if you're not part of the "active" decision, is a big issue for your company as well.
It's too easy to say it's their fault and maybe all will end well..
Sorry but I don't recognize the usual Bricasti "mindset" or approach.

Trust is everything for me and it's time that you take your responsibility as well in this story, even if it was another company that took the decision..

Afterall you (Bricasti) choose that they were allowed to collaborate with you/your company and therefore you have a part of responsibility, plus ALL "their" customers (for this plugin) are YOUR customers as well.



Cheu
I agree with your points entirely. This is not the only mistake I have made. In the past I have been far more contrite.

Let me start over, if you will, and thank you for giving me the pause to recognize my flawed reaction to this development.

I will allow your points to stand and represent my feelings entirely. You have stated them so well.

One of our behaviors as everyone knows is to openly collaborate on those fronts where we are poorly suited to address our market. This has brought much success to the community. In this particular case though, early success has turned to something less than that.

But our collaborative behavior persists. I am convinced that in this current regard, as well as others not yet conceived, success will prevail. That is my spirit and my belief.

Time will heal this episode if the diligence to overcome provides for it. I can assure everyone that it does and that I am accepting all criticism constructively and acting upon it.

I take my due responsibility for the loss of a valuable tool from the M7 kit. I am sorry and I am challenged by this anxiety provoking change.



-Casey
Old 10th March 2019
  #7
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cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
I agree with your points entirely. This is not the only mistake I have made. In the past I have been far more contrite.

Let me start over, if you will, and thank you for giving me the pause to recognize my flawed reaction to this development.

I will allow your points to stand and represent my feelings entirely. You have stated them so well.

One of our behaviors as everyone knows is to openly collaborate on those fronts where we are poorly suited to address our market. This has brought much success to the community. In this particular case though, early success has turned to something less than that.

But our collaborative behavior persists. I am convinced that in this current regard, as well as others not yet conceived, success will prevail. That is my spirit and my belief.

Time will heal this episode if the diligence to overcome provides for it. I can assure everyone that it does and that I am accepting all criticism constructively and acting upon it.

I take my due responsibility for the loss of a valuable tool from the M7 kit. I am sorry and I am challenged by this anxiety provoking change.



-Casey
Thank you Casey!

I hope you could find a solution, the M7 and the your future products are really beloved and much welcomed over here.

Will see what happens..

Take care

Cheu
Old 11th March 2019
  #8
Gear Head
 

Since this thread has been resurrected, it still would be interesting to hear some opinions regarding the original question, if anyone has any.
Old 11th March 2019
  #9
Deleted 9145577
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
I agree with your points entirely. This is not the only mistake I have made. In the past I have been far more contrite.

Let me start over, if you will, and thank you for giving me the pause to recognize my flawed reaction to this development.

I will allow your points to stand and represent my feelings entirely. You have stated them so well.

One of our behaviors as everyone knows is to openly collaborate on those fronts where we are poorly suited to address our market. This has brought much success to the community. In this particular case though, early success has turned to something less than that.

But our collaborative behavior persists. I am convinced that in this current regard, as well as others not yet conceived, success will prevail. That is my spirit and my belief.

Time will heal this episode if the diligence to overcome provides for it. I can assure everyone that it does and that I am accepting all criticism constructively and acting upon it.

I take my due responsibility for the loss of a valuable tool from the M7 kit. I am sorry and I am challenged by this anxiety provoking change.



-Casey

hi Casey, in case you were wondering what Exponentials "dear valued customer" canned response is:

"We are no longer selling the M7 Control plug-in, as we need time to pursue other Exponential Audio developments. We will continue to offer support at this time or existing customers such as yourself, but there will be no further developments, bug fixes, or releases for this product. We sincerely appreciate your support and apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you."

which, to me, boils down to "we can't be bothered to make the things you already bought work as you expected because we need to make new things for you to buy"

i'm used to plugins sometimes becoming abandoned but this is the new record for me in terms of how quickly it was done. 1 year !

ha

certainly done with anything Exponential Audio now, hope everyone has a good day.
Old 11th March 2019
  #10
My M7 Control plug still works fine. When it came out, I'm sure it was a drag for those who spent $$ on the remote. Things change, use what ya got. When a new version does come out, I would hope that those who paid for the original would get a freebie or significant discount. That's all. It's only a bummer for those that didn't get it before it was discontinued.

I don't think it reflects as bad on Bricasti as it does on Exponential. We paid them. It also makes sense. They're making some of the best sounding reverb plugs out there. To the point that it puts them in competition with Bricasti for some people's budgets. But because of this, I won't be paying them again. They've sent up a big red flag to reverb aficionados.
Old 11th March 2019
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Space1999's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevemachine View Post
I'm routing these 4 hardware reverb units to the sends of my console for mixing many various styles of music (largely rock). For ease of recall purposes, I was thinking about leaving each of them set to a permanent setting. Obviously, I have plenty of plugin reverbs if I need something else in the mix.

For those of you who are familiar with these classics, what would you set them to for a good variety of reverbs at hand on the console?

I was thinking, maybe something like the following...

Bricasti = Medium/Large Room/Studio
AMS RMX-16 = NonLin2
Lexicon 480L = Large Plate
Lexicon 224 = Small Hall or Chamber
I would set them all to “on” as opposed to “off”. My experience is that the “on” setting is the best available option. LOL OK I am being a [email protected] today.

The Lexicons really do the longer verb thang very well. The Bricasti, going from word of mouth, is said to have stellar room verbs. The Neve has that one patch that just parks tracks in the back of the mix so so well.

I personally would not leave verbs on a preset and never adjust them. Think about the tails of the verbs and the predelay vs. the BPM of the track. You just can’t cover every aspect that you need to address with one size fits all
Old 12th March 2019
  #12
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DrSax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
I agree with your points entirely. This is not the only mistake I have made. In the past I have been far more contrite.

Let me start over, if you will, and thank you for giving me the pause to recognize my flawed reaction to this development.

I will allow your points to stand and represent my feelings entirely. You have stated them so well.

One of our behaviors as everyone knows is to openly collaborate on those fronts where we are poorly suited to address our market. This has brought much success to the community. In this particular case though, early success has turned to something less than that.

But our collaborative behavior persists. I am convinced that in this current regard, as well as others not yet conceived, success will prevail. That is my spirit and my belief.

Time will heal this episode if the diligence to overcome provides for it. I can assure everyone that it does and that I am accepting all criticism constructively and acting upon it.

I take my due responsibility for the loss of a valuable tool from the M7 kit. I am sorry and I am challenged by this anxiety provoking change.



-Casey
Thanks for the honest response Casey. Bricasti retains my support although I do hope a viable long term plugin solution for controlling the M7 comes forward soon. As for Exponential, I feel very taken advantage of. This was a terrible way to handle this situation on their end of things.
Old 13th March 2019
  #13
Once patched in, check the noise floor. You will find only the M7 to be as quiet or less noise than the mix buss. Those others add a lot of hiss. Crank up the control room pot to hear it. Then decide if you can live with it.
Old 13th March 2019
  #14
I just write down the settings, it aint that big of a deal. Love my M7!
Old 13th March 2019
  #15
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robert82's Avatar
Exponential has repackaged some of it's plugins and put them out as "new". Now this with the controller. I wonder if Michael Carnes is still at the helm there, or if it's being run by a "suit"?
Old 16th March 2019
  #16
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Exponential has repackaged some of it's plugins and put them out as "new". Now this with the controller. I wonder if Michael Carnes is still at the helm there, or if it's being run by a "suit"?
That's a flat out lie and I suspect that you know it, but since you put it out there you should clarify: which EA product is a "repackage?"
Old 16th March 2019
  #17
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSax View Post
This was a terrible way to handle this situation on their end of things.
How should they have handled it?
Old 16th March 2019
  #18
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DrSax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
How should they have handled it?
At a minimum, they should have had the courtesy to email their paying customers with a legitimate explanation for discontinuing a product this young. It was not exactly a cheap plugin. And they could have announced a discontinuation schedule and continued to support and update the plugin for a certain amount of time before bailing on the product altogether.
Old 16th March 2019
  #19
Lives for gear
If you can afford to work that way. Very cool. Would make mxing quick if all the core reverbs were set up. The problem is tempo. You have to edit the settings for tempo.
Old 16th March 2019
  #20
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DrSax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
That's a flat out lie and I suspect that you know it, but since you put it out there you should clarify: which EA product is a "repackage?"
I’m guessing he’s referring to R2 and R4, although I could be wrong. A lot of R2 users felt that R2 was repackaged and expanded under a new name (R4) as a way to garner more profit, as opposed to introducing it as a R2 upgrade for a more reasonable price. I remember some users discussing it when R4 came out. I don’t own R2 or R4 so I cant speak to the differences, but I do remember some users expressing that they felt ripped off. I didn’t pay much attention to it at the time. But after paying a decent amount for Nimbus and M7 Control, and having the M7 Control discontinued so soon, I’m watching the situation with eyes wide open. I know that as a full time audio professional, lifespan of plugins is very important to me.
Old 16th March 2019
  #21
Deleted 9145577
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSax View Post
At a minimum, they should have had the courtesy to email their paying customers with a legitimate explanation for discontinuing a product this young. It was not exactly a cheap plugin. And they could have announced a discontinuation schedule and continued to support and update the plugin for a certain amount of time before bailing on the product altogether.
imo, at a minimum, exp should refund our money.
Old 16th March 2019
  #22
Lives for gear
 

What a shame. The first Exponential product I bought was the M7 plugin. That put me on their mailing list, which led to me buying one of their reverbs.

Casey, are you looking into another solution? Another software company?

This is a "sucks situation" for all.

Best...H
Old 16th March 2019
  #23
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Casey's Avatar
 

Yes, yes it is.



-Casey
Old 16th March 2019
  #24
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Fidelis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevemachine View Post
Since this thread has been resurrected, it still would be interesting to hear some opinions regarding the original question, if anyone has any.
As a owner of several hardware reverbs (2 x bricasti + remote), 1 Lex 480L, 1 TC 6000, 1 Lex PCM70, I must say that using just one preset on each of them you are gonna loose the best of this world. Each song, each instrument calls for a different space, vibe, etc... and it's so easy to recall a reverb! Its less then one minute to recall them all here. I have so many different settings that I love on Bricasti... using just one?!?! No way

So my recommendation is to explore those machines, take your notes or save presets, or whatever, and have fun!

Best!
Old 16th March 2019
  #25
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carlheinz's Avatar
 

If you want real recall theres nothing better than printing any effects that are most crucial. I do this often and it has paid off. I had to recall a session from 10 years ago for a track not initially released and the artist wanted to make stems for backing tracks. Though my D.A.W has changed and the Klark DN-780 was in the shop the reverb stem which sounded awesome came right back right where I left it. Boom.In the days of tape, I learned to commit early and often. If you rented an AMS and you had an open set of tracks...print it..You save money by not needing to rent 2 AMS reverbs!
Old 16th March 2019
  #26
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elambo's Avatar
Does the M7 Control plugin no longer work with the M7 reverb?
Old 16th March 2019
  #27
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Does the M7 Control plugin no longer work with the M7 reverb?
It does. There are some problems with it in my set from time to time but it works and serves the purpose.

I don’t know what other people getting with their sets and midi interfaces but all the talks are mostly about the future lack of support and losing functionality and thus value of M7Control.

I’m sure if one company was able to create this plugin another one will be able to do it as well.

And personally if you could afford Bricasti even with no remote to get a plugin for a fraction of cost is no brainer. I count my money, too.
Old 16th March 2019
  #28
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSax View Post
I’m guessing he’s referring to R2 and R4, although I could be wrong. A lot of R2 users felt that R2 was repackaged and expanded under a new name (R4) as a way to garner more profit, as opposed to introducing it as a R2 upgrade for a more reasonable price. I remember some users discussing it when R4 came out. I don’t own R2 or R4 so I cant speak to the differences, but I do remember some users expressing that they felt ripped off. I didn’t pay much attention to it at the time. But after paying a decent amount for Nimbus and M7 Control, and having the M7 Control discontinued so soon, I’m watching the situation with eyes wide open. I know that as a full time audio professional, lifespan of plugins is very important to me.
True, they are similar, bu if it's too similar to R2 for some people who already own R2 then why would they feel the need to upgrade? FWIW, all algorithms were updated, it includes a new algorithm, warp, mod eq, and some other features not found in R2. The term "repackage" isn't ambiguous, and it's quite an accusation, and it shouldn't be thrown around because someone is frustrated by a developer's business model.

I know Michael pretty well, certainly well enough to say that becoming rich has never been his thing.
Old 16th March 2019
  #29
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by temnov View Post
It does. There are some problems with it in my set from time to time but it works and serves the purpose.

I don’t know what other people getting with their sets and midi interfaces but all the talks are mostly about the future lack of support and losing functionality and thus value of M7Control.

I’m sure if one company was able to create this plugin another one will be able to do it as well.

And personally if you could afford Bricasti even with no remote to get a plugin for a fraction of cost is no brainer. I count my money, too.
Forcefully and exaggeratedly complaining on the internet about every little thing in a person's entitled life is the new M.O. Then, reputations are tarnished, small, hard-working businesses go under, and it's nothing more than another thing to complain about.
Old 16th March 2019
  #30
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Forcefully and exaggeratedly complaining on the internet about every little thing in a person's entitled life is the new M.O. Then, reputations are tarnished, small, hard-working businesses go under, and it's nothing more than another thing to complain about.
100% agree with this statement! Feel of entitlement is overwhelming in some posts.
I also spent my money and put this plugin in a good use. Yes, I’m not happy how that happened but it’s life.
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