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JCF Pep on a mix Digital Converters
Old 5th June 2018
  #1
Gear Nut
 

JCF Pep on a mix

this is 4 times the same music passage

digital mix, and then with pep on 4 subgroups and than summed to the same digital master track

don't know what i feel about the hassle of routing this against the benifit sonic imprint
Attached Files

Pep Mix Test.mp3 (2.87 MB, 1094 views)

Old 5th June 2018
  #2
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KIDBILL's Avatar
 

I much prefer the Cranesong phoenix or the tape/triode/pentode found on the hedd - quantum
Careful with the JCF support too, it's absolutely horrible
Old 5th June 2018
  #3
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nomatic's Avatar
I have found Josh to be quite responsive?

I tend to go non pep unless doing a live record.....
Old 5th June 2018
  #4
PEP is really good on the Mix, to my ears. It has a certain "shape" to it. Rounds the curvature of the mix more. Without killing any transients. So its very unobtrusive. It opens up the mix, and even widens the image. Less Edge. Pristine and clear.

Regarding the above comment about customer service. Josh has always been great for me to deal with on questions. He is responsive, & very helpful to me. I have been selling his gear since 2007.

I don't understand how anything could be "horrible" about it. Unless your questions were out of bounds.
Old 5th June 2018
  #5
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KIDBILL's Avatar
 

Yes, the support is really horrible and I say that very politely.

I had a noise issue with his Latte converter (7000$ device btw)
A annoying 1,8khz note ringing all the time.

I asked what it was to him

Here's his answer: "this is called aliasing and your place must be full of switching psu"

Well, how he can call this noise "aliasing" without hearing the noise and without asking me to do some testings to see what it is?
My place is not full of switching psu either, far from it actually.

He then told me to play with the grounds of my studio gear, saying I'll most likely find one piece of offensive equipment.
saying: "best of luck"

Nothing.

Then I thought I should change my AES device, I asked him what piece of equipment is known to work correctly with his Latte
He replied: "Anything that accepts AES. We have no opinion"

Cool.

I asked Lynx support to see if it was my AES16E card.
I received excellent support from them (the opposite of JCF) and we concluded nothing was wrong. They even proposed to send me a replacement card for free...


I asked again to him what it could be...answer:
"There is nothing wrong with your unit.
Have a listen to it with no input."


and: If you believe the unit to be defective, you can talk to your dealer, work out shipping, and JCF Audio will be happy to measure your unit free of charge.
Other than that, I can’t help you.


Not being able to send the converter back to the US without being sure the unit was defective (can't afford to pay 500$ round trip shipping just for the fun to test the unit) and being still in the dark I had to ask on gearslutz to receive some help I didn't receive...

Here's some answers I had:

Another mastering engineer having a Latte got the same noise like me and thinks it is design related.
He said he got it even with his balanced power furman.
Cool.
Mr Bob Katz simply said my Latte must be defective and should never left the factory like that.
Cool.
On gearslutz, some helpful people suggested it was noise induced in the circuit and not grounds problems.
Cool.

I owned prism, merging, Iz and NEVER had such noise problems.

On gearslutz some nice people suggested me to send him some freqs analizer files which I did, here was his answer:
"Based on incomplete information, unknowns galore, and your added gain, the charts look exactly correct.
The large hump at the bottom is offset that you didn’t adjust.
I will not be contacting you further."


Many thanks JCF to say me I didn't adjust the offset...
I was still struggeling with the ****ty noise of the unit.
and thank you for letting me know I'll not receive any help
having this unit not working like it should.

Having my head full of brainstorming and not being able to make the unit working correctly,
while receiving this strange unprofessional support,
I asked kindly a return and a refund as I was not confident anymore.
Which he refused! (via my dealer)

Cool.

I contacted him directly and here's his answer:
We have no business dealings with you at all. If you have questions, you may direct them to your dealer.

Thanks again for this wonderful experience Josh!
(Btw, he got business with me as I bought his 7k$ device)

End of story: I lost 1500$ because my dealer accepted kindly to take back the unit as a used one and refund me then.

I know this guy is really bizarre now.
Must be full of ego.
He sucks.

Respecting clients means providing professional support for a Al Schmitt type of customer and the same for the unknown buyer.

You can not ask a overseas customer to pay shipping round trip just to test the unit. The unit is expensive enough, thanks.

I sincerely advise overseas people to think twice before buying his units.

I think he's really not prepared to sell overseas and he really don't know how to do support.

Simply said: the JCF Latte was my worst purchase ever.

This is a first to me and don't want another experience like that for sure!!!!

This picture is nothing but a joke to me now and I'm thinking to open a thread on gearslutz just to have some justice done and let people know about the truth behind JCF way of doing

Thank you to my dealer to take this unit back and refunding me.
I feel much better now, even I lost 1500$
Attached Thumbnails
JCF Pep on a mix-image2.jpg  

Last edited by KIDBILL; 7th June 2018 at 04:26 PM..
Old 5th June 2018
  #6
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nomatic's Avatar
Must be more to this story as you are the only person I have heard of who has had this problem?

My 2 AD-8s have been flawless and Josh has promptly answered any questions...

Sorry you have had a bad experience but something seems weird.....
Old 5th June 2018
  #7
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KIDBILL's Avatar
 

What I described is the full story, believe it or not!
I'm not lying and can share all the emails without problem...so no need to hint, really.
You can read the thread about my noise problems and you'll see I'm not the only one.
Even one pro audio seller stopped working with him as he was so hot-tempered and disrespectful.
I don't want to bash but share what happened if it can help someone not making the same mistake like I did
to buy him this converter. Waste of time and money. Good riddance.
On the great news side, I'm waiting to have my money back to buy the new Hedd Quantum
I bet I'll not have noise problems anymore using the same AES16E Lynx card

How to solve aliasing noise - converter

Last edited by KIDBILL; 6th June 2018 at 12:54 AM..
Old 6th June 2018
  #8
7+1
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7+1's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KIDBILL View Post
What I described is the full story, believe it or not!
I'm not lying and can share all the emails without problem...so no need to hint, really.
You can read the thread about my noise problems and you'll see I'm not the only one.
Even one pro audio seller stopped working with him as he was so hot-tempered and disrespectful.
I don't want to bash but share what happened if it can help someone not making the same mistake like I did
to buy him this converter. Waste of time and money. Good riddance.
On the great news side, I'm waiting to have my money back to buy the new Hedd Quantum
I bet I'll not have noise problems anymore using the same AES16E Lynx card
Offenses aside, the fact that you are looking for "Justice" and going to go on the internet for it really rubs me wrong. I will stand by Josh for whatever decisions he chose to handle things with you. That being said, I find it pretty unfair and almost bizarre you arent posting full conversations but what seems the details to fit your agenda.

Josh is a really incredible person. Full of passion and has knowledge more than anyone I've ever met in my life. I feel like this isnt the complete story as Ive know the guy for 10 years and Ive never heard of him reacting in this way..
Old 6th June 2018
  #9
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KIDBILL's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7+1 View Post
Offenses aside, the fact that you are looking for "Justice" and going to go on the internet for it really rubs me wrong. I will stand by Josh for whatever decisions he chose to handle things with you. That being said, I find it pretty unfair and almost bizarre you arent posting full conversations but what seems the details to fit your agenda.

Josh is a really incredible person. Full of passion and has knowledge more than anyone I've ever met in my life. I feel like this isnt the complete story as Ive know the guy for 10 years and Ive never heard of him reacting in this way..
You can think what you want, I know what I experienced.
Pain in the A$$ to loose all that money too.
By "justice" I say people should know how is the JCF process these days.
If you're a friend of him, fine! I'm not! just a customer named "Latte N° 56"
If you want the complete conversations, give me your email, I'll send them to you! (if you have time and passion about that)
The answers in blue are actually pasted from his answers in my email box.
Again, no need to hint, I'm just sharing what happened to me.
Old 6th June 2018
  #10
Lives for gear
I'll share my story, FWIW. I made contact with Josh directly with my interest in the JCF DA8-V. He was very responsive and seemed willing to answer all my questions in an efficient manner. When I received my gear I had a question on the installation of the analog power supply tube. My eyesight sucks these days and I had trouble lining things up properly. I would say that he basically went out of his way to help get an older guy going with his new gear, on a Friday night, after hours. I get the impression that Josh is not the type to hold your hand or walk you through everything. You need to understand what you're getting into ahead of time.

Having said that, @ KIDBILL I'm sorry that your experience was less than favorable.
Old 6th June 2018
  #11
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KIDBILL's Avatar
 

Thanks Drumhead57!
You know I'm just a humble musician very passionate about sound,
and I'm quite happy to be able to record music again with peace of mind!
My experience went bad as he didn't put any doubt about a possible fault of his converter
and the assistance didn't rely on any technical testings, just quick unhelpful answers.
That's not professional.
If I was in the US having low shipping cost and no problems with customs
it may have been different as I would have sent back the unit right away.
I forgot to mention I had issue with the transformer of the power supply too...
There was a mechanical hum so loud I thought something was wrong! but Josh said not
He replied: "this is called magnetostriction and it can happen"
Well, for a "high end" device it is a little bit hard to accept.
Lesson learned...


Back on topic (sorry OP) I still think the Cranesong processings sounds better
and more versatile

Last edited by KIDBILL; 6th June 2018 at 12:52 AM..
Old 6th June 2018
  #12
Lives for gear
Yeah, sorry @ oranzil , I didn't help either.

After hearing what the DA8-V does I'm very much interested in an AD8. I would be interested in hearing more about the process (hassle) of mixing with PEP. I assume you're using a Latte? or is it an AD8? I can't say I can hear a ton of dif. with the mp3 file. Is it possible to share via Dropbox, or something else?
Old 6th June 2018
  #13
Gear Nut
 

What i Did

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumhead57 View Post
Yeah, sorry @ oranzil , I didn't help either.

After hearing what the DA8-V does I'm very much interested in an AD8. I would be interested in hearing more about the process (hassle) of mixing with PEP. I assume you're using a Latte? or is it an AD8? I can't say I can hear a ton of dif. with the mp3 file. Is it possible to share via Dropbox, or something else?
The 'Hassle' is splitting the mix to independent subgroups (Drums, Bass, Gtr, Vocal, FX)
switch the AD8 to D/D Pep mode and then monitor the returned PEPed tracks on PT and sum them back to my original Master track processing

after that is done mixing is as easy or as hard as always.
i do get a feeling that with this PEP split and sum i have more resolution to the sound, i am hearing things i feel like i haven't heard before

i will try and finish the mix like this and maybe put out 2 versions on line for referance

Thanks
Old 6th June 2018
  #14
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deuc647's Avatar
 

The 1st and 3rd passage to me sound best only because i hear more of the instrumentation going on where in 2nd and 4th i feel the strumming gets lost a bit.
Old 6th June 2018
  #15
IMO, PEP is really best when tracking initially. Getting the "finished" sound quickly, listening thru the processing, making all your adjustments in real time. As you hear them. Artists should hear the direct sources, engineer hear the post-PEP conversion. Twisting knobs through PEP is a whole new world. Actually, twisting any knobs after the AD-8 is a whole new world. It suddenly makes mixing a lot easier. IMHO.
Old 12th June 2018
  #16
Gear Nut
 

Fell in love

With mixing 4 sub-groups through pep
in a far from ideal live band session in a small room with lots of bleed everywhere
mixing through pep rounds the harshness beautifully
makes me wish i had 2 AD8's even more
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