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REDD vs. NEVE preamps Dual-Channel Preamps
Old 2nd May 2018
  #1
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chrismeraz's Avatar
 

REDD vs. NEVE preamps

Slutz,

I am in need one very high-end preamp. I was all set on a Rupert Neve Designs 5024, but I've just come across a good deal on a device called REDD 47S stereo preamp (it doesn't say EMI or Chandler anywhere on the face, and apparently Chandler don't make a stereo version, so I don't know exactly what it is).

I want to do relatively clean vocal recordings (think Melody Gardot, Nat King Cole, Diana Krall, etc.)

Are these good choices? How does the 200 ohm input impedance of the REDD pre play with modern microphones that are designed for 1500 ohm preamp input impedance? Do you have any other recommendations?

Thanks!



EDIT: Why don't we have a list of the "10 best clean preamps" in our Best Studio Gear section?

Last edited by chrismeraz; 2nd May 2018 at 12:45 PM..
Old 2nd May 2018
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
___GLM___'s Avatar
none of your mentioned preamps are clean. I did some preamp comparisons some days ago on female vocals, including the Chandler redd47, AMS neve and AEA TRP. AEA is considered to be on the clean side...






Old 2nd May 2018
  #3
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chrismeraz's Avatar
 

Thanks for the links. I'll have a listen when I get home.

So, you think the $800 AEA is better for my purposes than the incredibly expensive stuff? I am very happy to hear that!

Last edited by chrismeraz; 2nd May 2018 at 01:00 PM..
Old 2nd May 2018
  #4
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I have the chandler Redd pre and BAE which is very Neve like plus tons of others. 200ohm impedance no problem whatsoever on Chandler . None of the singers u mention have a clean vocal sound if u ask me. I think I know what u mean though. It’s very detailed. To me, both directions would absolutely get u there. They have larger than life vocal sounds and prob went through colourful pres. The mic would be some nice tube condenser most likely.



Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismeraz View Post
Slutz,

I am in need one very high-end preamp. I was all set on a Rupert Neve Designs 5024, but I've just come across a good deal on a device called REDD 47S stereo preamp (it doesn't say EMI or Chandler anywhere on the face, and apparently Chandler don't make a stereo version, so I don't know exactly what it is).

I want to do very clean vocal recordings (think Melody Gardot, Nat King Cole, Diana Krall, etc.)

Would both of these amps do that task equally well? How does the 200 ohm input impedance of the REDD pre play with modern microphones that are designed for 1500 ohm preamp input impedance?

Thanks!



EDIT: Why don't we have a list of the "10 best clean preamps" in our Best Studio Gear section?
Old 2nd May 2018
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
___GLM___'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismeraz View Post
Thanks for the links. I'll have a listen when I get home.

So, you think the $800 AEA is better for my purposes than the incredibly expensive stuff? I am very happy to hear that!

Yes, the AEA holds up pretty well.
Old 2nd May 2018
  #6
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Well, Melody and Diana were both recorded by Al Schmitt and I know he has some stuff that isn't available for sale anywhere (he loves his Mastering Lab preamps built by Doug Sax, for example) and he will usually use those or the pres in his Neve console. That's why I was first considering Neve.

To me those are clean recordings, you guys say they are colored but if that isn't clean I don't know what is. Anyway, it's all relative, but that's the kind of sound I'm going for.

AEA TPR2 might be worth a try... a lot cheaper than a Neve and just as good from what GLM says (but I don't know anything about GLM's or what kind of music he records). GLM, can you tell us a bit more about your engineering experience? You have a gear list that's to die for, that's for sure.
Old 2nd May 2018
  #7
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If you don't have a chance to try it and listen to it I would not buy an amp purported to be a "REDD47 style" pre if its not the Chandler (or some other known entity). Otherwise, you have no idea what you're getting. There are many so called "copies" of the REDD47 pre out there and some sound like crap. I'm sure some are great.

I have the Chandler REDD47 preamp - its a glorious pre. It gives you color, bigness, 3Dness while still delivers very good clarity and detail.

That said, you can certainly do this with a clean preamp. Here are a couple Melody Gardot covers my daughter did a few years ago using the very clean (and affordable) Grace M101 preamp. (This was before we bought the Chandler REDD47. Actually, before we had any high-end gear.)

Melody Gardot covers with clean Preamp
"Who Will Comfort Me" and "Baby I'm a Fool" both are the same chain:
Avantone CV-12 =>Grace M101 =>compressor section of a Presonus Eureka (a Smilies
clean compressor) =>Converters => Waves LA2A plugin.





Similar cover with the Chandler REDD47 Pre:
I'll add this one so you can compare. Here's a Nina Simone style jazz cover ("After You've Gone") using the Chandler REDD47 pre.

The chain here is:
Pearlman TM-47 =>Chandler REDD47 => UA 1176 => Converters.

Old 2nd May 2018
  #8
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chrismeraz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ___GLM___ View Post
none of your mentioned preamps are clean. I did some preamp comparisons some days ago on female vocals, including the Chandler redd47, AMS neve and AEA TRP. AEA is considered to be on the clean side...






Fukkin beautiful man. Are these all different performances? What was the methodology for this comparison?
Old 3rd May 2018
  #9
Lives for gear
Yeah gorgeous! Language is so difficult with this stuff. I think maybe u mean clean to be non distorted. For me clean is simply uncoloured. For me, colour can be still very non distorted. So confusing.... I kind of mean it as a enhancement or exaggeration of the sound. In your examples, the vocals all sound very coloured to me in a very flattering way. That bright yet thick and in your face vocal sound is what I call colour. Mainly it’s a mic thing but the preamp plays a role. Al Schmitt also uses a Fairchild on vocals which adds tons of colour. Pure mix has a tutorial on him recording a jazz singer right up your alley u might like. I use the word detailed to mean your clean perhaps. I think of clean as sterile or more realistic. There is no right or wrong but we can all have different definitions and get confused.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #10
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chrismeraz's Avatar
 

You're totally right, and I forgot all about Al's Fairchild.

I'm going to save up for a Neve 5024.

Does anyone know how to get in touch with the guy who runs the Press Desk? I'd like to ask him for a vote on the Top 10 Clean Pre's and a Top 10 Character/Coloured Pre's. I can't believe we don't have a top ten for preamps. I'm a gear slut and I need my fix!

Last edited by chrismeraz; 3rd May 2018 at 09:29 AM..
Old 3rd May 2018
  #11
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benoïde's Avatar
 

I use the rnd 5024 to record classical music, and sometimes use a focusrite red quad. The Neve has more precision in the whole spectrum, is faster and as a result produces a wider stereo field. It's an excellent preamp to record acoustic music music and voices imo.
It still has a richness to it that's desirable. The silk button is good on strings and high transient material.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #12
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougS View Post
If you don't have a chance to try it and listen to it I would not buy an amp purported to be a "REDD47 style" pre if its not the Chandler (or some other known entity). Otherwise, you have no idea what you're getting. There are many so called "copies" of the REDD47 pre out there and some sound like crap. I'm sure some are great.

I have the Chandler REDD47 preamp - its a glorious pre. It gives you color, bigness, 3Dness while still delivers very good clarity and detail.

That said, you can certainly do this with a clean preamp. Here are a couple Melody Gardot covers my daughter did a few years ago using the very clean (and affordable) Grace M101 preamp. (This was before we bought the Chandler REDD47. Actually, before we had any high-end gear.)

Melody Gardot covers with clean Preamp
"Who Will Comfort Me" and "Baby I'm a Fool" both are the same chain:
Avantone CV-12 =>Grace M101 =>compressor section of a Presonus Eureka (a Smilies
clean compressor) =>Converters => Waves LA2A plugin.





Similar cover with the Chandler REDD47 Pre:
I'll add this one so you can compare. Here's a Nina Simone style jazz cover ("After You've Gone") using the Chandler REDD47 pre.

The chain here is:
Pearlman TM-47 =>Chandler REDD47 => UA 1176 => Converters.

What an amazing talent!!!!! I'm deeply impressed!
Old 3rd May 2018
  #13
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Al uses a 1073. Not a RND 5024. Sure they were both designed by Rupert Neve but they do not sound a like. The DPA or DPD or even SPX version of the 1073 pre are better options
Old 3rd May 2018
  #14
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Plush's Avatar
I like the comparisons done by GLM.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #15
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chrismeraz's Avatar
 

Oh absolutely, I've rarely seen such a well-done comparison. Were you able to hear significant differences between the preamps? Would you say FOR SURE one was better than the rest?
Old 3rd May 2018
  #16
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daaronhoffman's Avatar
 

I picked up a RND PorticoII channel...incredibly versatile with the silk options in needed/wanted and otherwise clean.
Highly recommend it!
Old 3rd May 2018
  #17
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Funny Cat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismeraz View Post
Oh absolutely, I've rarely seen such a well-done comparison. Were you able to hear significant differences between the preamps? Would you say FOR SURE one was better than the rest?

I liked the AEA the most in all those clips only because it seemed to sit the vocals in the track just a smidgen better then the others. The others seemed to have a tiny bit more "in-yer-face-ness" going on, which is not a bad thing at all for certain styles. Although that could be a difference in how the AE mixed them?

I'm very impressed by the AEA pre hanging in that company. AEA is a special company making really great gear all around the board. Impossible to say one was better than the other though because sound is subjective and what I'm listening for in a pre could be very different than what you are looking for. The differences in those mic pres seemed very small though so your line of questioning is certainly valid. Thanks for posting those comparisons @___GLM___


VERY well done!
Old 3rd May 2018
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
I'm very impressed by the AEA pre hanging in that company.
The AEA TRP was designed by Fred Forssell of Forssell Tech.
So a little less surprising with that pedigree.

forsselltech.com
Old 3rd May 2018
  #19
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Funny Cat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
The AEA TRP was designed by Fred Forssell of Forssell Tech.
So a little less surprising with that pedigree.

forsselltech.com

I did not know that. Thanks for the info!




[EDIT] Whoa! I had no idea Forssell also helped design (all or in part in some cases) Grace compressors, Millennia preamps, the ADL-600, the AEA440 and the AEAR84 along with the AEA mic pres! That's crazy! These are among some of the very best products being sold today!
Old 5th May 2018
  #20
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mikeyman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougS View Post
If you don't have a chance to try it and listen to it I would not buy an amp purported to be a "REDD47 style" pre if its not the Chandler (or some other known entity). Otherwise, you have no idea what you're getting. There are many so called "copies" of the REDD47 pre out there and some sound like crap. I'm sure some are great.

I have the Chandler REDD47 preamp - its a glorious pre. It gives you color, bigness, 3Dness while still delivers very good clarity and detail.

That said, you can certainly do this with a clean preamp. Here are a couple Melody Gardot covers my daughter did a few years ago using the very clean (and affordable) Grace M101 preamp. (This was before we bought the Chandler REDD47. Actually, before we had any high-end gear.)

Melody Gardot covers with clean Preamp
"Who Will Comfort Me" and "Baby I'm a Fool" both are the same chain:
Avantone CV-12 =>Grace M101 =>compressor section of a Presonus Eureka (a Smilies
clean compressor) =>Converters => Waves LA2A plugin.





Similar cover with the Chandler REDD47 Pre:
I'll add this one so you can compare. Here's a Nina Simone style jazz cover ("After You've Gone") using the Chandler REDD47 pre.

The chain here is:
Pearlman TM-47 =>Chandler REDD47 => UA 1176 => Converters.

wow she is very good
Old 5th May 2018
  #21
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mikeyman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismeraz View Post
Slutz,

I am in need one very high-end preamp. I was all set on a Rupert Neve Designs 5024, but I've just come across a good deal on a device called REDD 47S stereo preamp (it doesn't say EMI or Chandler anywhere on the face, and apparently Chandler don't make a stereo version, so I don't know exactly what it is).

I want to do relatively clean vocal recordings (think Melody Gardot, Nat King Cole, Diana Krall, etc.)

Are these good choices? How does the 200 ohm input impedance of the REDD pre play with modern microphones that are designed for 1500 ohm preamp input impedance? Do you have any other recommendations?

Thanks!



EDIT: Why don't we have a list of the "10 best clean preamps" in our Best Studio Gear section?
do you have a picture of the REDD 47S that you want to buy?
Old 6th May 2018
  #22
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DougS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Z View Post
What an amazing talent!!!!! I'm deeply impressed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyman View Post
wow she is very good
Thanks for the kind words.
Old 7th May 2018
  #23
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chrismeraz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyman View Post
do you have a picture of the REDD 47S that you want to buy?
Sure, it's here: REDD.47 Abbey Road Edition - stereo tube microphone preamp | Reverb
Old 7th May 2018
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismeraz View Post
That looks like someone built it as a project. It definitely looks like a good build from the close up photos but unless there are sound samples or some kind of return policy I'm not sure I'd go for it. I'd rather buy something proven.
Old 7th May 2018
  #25
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chrismeraz's Avatar
 

Yeah I totally agree with you on that, who knows what it is. Thanks.
Old 7th May 2018
  #26
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I wouldn't chance it.
That's a lot of money for an unknown DIY project.

All I can say is that if you have the money for one of the Chandler Redd pres, go for it, It's amazing, I really wish I'd never heard it as I don't have the funds for it but I just want it so so bad.

The portico is pretty cool but I din't like the 5012 that much when I compared it to my 1073 dpa, it sounded ok but I like the dpa way more.

As for a Redd flavor on the cheap, I own a phaedrus phab, that I use for mobile demos and it's a nice preamp for the price, and definitely has that vibe, is it on par with the Chandler? no , not quite but then I find the Chandler to be really exceptional sounding.
Old 7th May 2018
  #27
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chrismeraz, I also wouldn't chance it without trying it first. But I really liked the Chandler in GLM's samples above and in the past have used good builds of famous designs which sounded great. You are not so far from Rome and if you are close to Paris and consider it worth your efforts I'd lend you an AEA TRP and maybe the seller would allow you to test his unit against an AEA TRP before purchase.
Old 7th May 2018
  #28
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mikeyman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismeraz View Post

looks cool...did you buy it? I didn't know EMI built one
Old 7th May 2018
  #29
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deuc647's Avatar
 

Get it. Without hearing it it has the rumble filter and is built with the cinemag transformers which if anyone knows about these builds, is the correct transformer to use because they nailed it with sowter coming in a not so close second.
Old 17th July 2018
  #30
Gear Head
 
Wizards Machine's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ___GLM___ View Post
none of your mentioned preamps are clean. I did some preamp comparisons some days ago on female vocals, including the Chandler redd47, AMS neve and AEA TRP. AEA is considered to be on the clean side...






First, wow what a voice. One of the most musical singers I've heard in a while. Hats off to her. Her musicality reminds me of Joni Mitchell's. Very nice indeed.

Ok, the AEA kills on her vox, and I like the 47.
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