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Serban Ghenea Mixes - all ITB?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldvodka View Post
you might want to check this out if you haven't already.

Mix Bus Processing
Thank you, I’ve read all the thread but I still don’t know what’s the process to get those lufs in the mixing process.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2012
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Originally Posted by SPORT View Post
A year ago a friend give me the stems of Sia-The Greatest mixed by Serban i guess. When i compare the stems vs master i can clearly hear differences between two, but only in chorus. The verse sound identical. I can't say what they did on mastering but, the chorus seems heavily compressed and the bass maybe more focused. There is couple of db's of volume loss as well and maybe some space lose?

That is an artifact of printing the stems separately into the master bus chain and not of mastering.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanak View Post


Immaculate vocals by Serban... the BGV's in particular.

Excited for the new AG album... no doubt there'll be more Serban for us to appreciate by this time next week
I’m just wrapping up the Atmos mixes on this album. Oh how I wish you could hear it in proper 7.1.4 Atmos playback!
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHanes View Post
I’m just wrapping up the Atmos mixes on this album. Oh how I wish you could hear it in proper 7.1.4 Atmos playback!
That must sound incredible!
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2015
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Originally Posted by Edwardss44 View Post
Thank you, I’ve read all the thread but I still don’t know what’s the process to get those lufs in the mixing process.
What answers I have are in there somewhere.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2016
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHanes View Post
That is an artifact of printing the stems separately into the master bus chain and not of mastering.
Slightly off-topic but it might be useful to someone: If you feed the side-chains of any dynamics processors on the master bus from the busses (instead of the internal side-chain signal), it allows the exported stems to have the exact same dynamics processing when bounced separately as the stereo mix.

At least this is how we do it in the post-production world. This way, when you sum the stems, they add up to the stereo mix.

Alistair
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHanes View Post
What answers I have are in there somewhere.
John I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but the work you guys did on the last The Weeknd album is out of this world. Not to mention the records Blinding Lights has broken...

I think the sound they were going for on the album was a perfect match for you and it showed, just like with Bruno's last album.

The sense of space, the reverb and delay work, the textures... everything worked so nice together, it's crazy. I honestly go back to songs like Save Your Tears because of the mix itself.

Do you have any cool story about working it?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Slightly off-topic but it might be useful to someone: If you feed the side-chains of any dynamics processors on the master bus from the busses (instead of the internal side-chain signal), it allows the exported stems to have the exact same dynamics processing when bounced separately as the stereo mix.

At least this is how we do it in the post-production world. This way, when you sum the stems, they add up to the stereo mix.

Alistair
Why I don’t do this for stems.

Yes this is possible and I do this sort of keyed master compression when I’m doing multiple master channels in Atmos mixing.

For stems my thinking is that stems are for remixers to pick apart and use parts, not to recreate the original mix. So i assume that the remixer would want stems that are not processed this way because they will be doing their own master bus compression later and want their own music to affect the overall sound.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2019
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John did you use any kind of side chain for blend the kick and bass?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfilipee View Post
John I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but the work you guys did on the last The Weeknd album is out of this world. Not to mention the records Blinding Lights has broken...

I think the sound they were going for on the album was a perfect match for you and it showed, just like with Bruno's last album.

The sense of space, the reverb and delay work, the textures... everything worked so nice together, it's crazy. I honestly go back to songs like Save Your Tears because of the mix itself.

Do you have any cool story about working it?
Nothing special to tell. As we are working on these songs we don’t have the time to kind of document their history. I wish I had started journaling this early on so I had a bunch of cool stories. A lot of the time we are just trying to make deadlines and make the donuts.

I remember there were a couple of versions. One early one went for a Mercedes commercial, and then a bunch more work was done by Abel and Max Martin.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2021
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Originally Posted by SPORT View Post
John did you use any kind of side chain for blend the kick and bass?
Generally not doing this in our mixes unless it has been set up that way by the producer.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2022
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Hey John Love your work!!! I know you wont mentions the specifics of the master chain you and serban use, but can you say how many plugins exactly are on the master bus? Im creating a master chain but dont want to over process.

Thank in advance!!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2023
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You guys move along at a nice clip. How do you pace things for yourselves? Do you battle burnout? Days of "I really don't want to clip ss's out of BVs yet again"? Any routine to get you going in peak form day in day out, or it comes pretty naturally?

Many successful creatives historically spend the same or more time on leisure than work (https://podio.com/site/creative-routines), is that that your experience? Or is it more of the fast pace long hours grind associated with the modern American life?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2024
Gear Maniac
 

Hey John,

I was just curious since there are so many of them, when you are looking for Tape, Character or say saturation in the box what is the plugin you find yourself typically reaching for? Would love to get a little direction from a real pro as there are just too many choices these days.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
You guys move along at a nice clip. How do you pace things for yourselves? Do you battle burnout? Days of "I really don't want to clip ss's out of BVs yet again"? Any routine to get you going in peak form day in day out, or it comes pretty naturally?

Many successful creatives historically spend the same or more time on leisure than work (https://podio.com/site/creative-routines), is that that your experience? Or is it more of the fast pace long hours grind associated with the modern American life?
The pace is mostly non-stop like a Lucille Ball candy factory when you almost wish it will stop. Then there are the "slow" periods when you start to wonder if you've lost it and when the next project will come.

We have enough projects in various stages of completion that if I don't feel like cleaning vocals on a given day, I can go print some stems, or prep some new stuff, or catch up on my paperwork and accounting.

We definitely don't have that kind of leisure time; but I think ours is not a "creative" job in that aspect; we feel more like custodians often, cleaning up other people's ****. We are definitely in the long hours grind category.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thakid View Post
Hey John Love your work!!! I know you wont mentions the specifics of the master chain you and serban use, but can you say how many plugins exactly are on the master bus? Im creating a master chain but dont want to over process.

Thank in advance!!
4 to 5 generally.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooleyocity View Post
Hey John,

I was just curious since there are so many of them, when you are looking for Tape, Character or say saturation in the box what is the plugin you find yourself typically reaching for? Would love to get a little direction from a real pro as there are just too many choices these days.
For me personally I like to try different things out when looking to create an effect.

So I love the new ProTools has the search function; I'll start typing in tape, or saturation, and a list of plugins that I have pops up and I'll start playing around.

For a clean print master tape, I like the Isotope Ozone Tape. Recently I used Softube Tape to make a really wobbly taped piano on a recent mix for Kat Cunning "O Holy Knight". She wanted it to sound very messed up.

Mostly a tape plugin should be quite subtle; when we printed to tape we were trying to get it as clean as possible, balancing noise against print-through and over compression by tape.

For saturation I like the classic Lo-Fi. Also liking the Waves Abbey Road Saturator.

Mainly I would say that I am drawn to single-function plugins with GUI's that are quickly and easily understood. I have a hard time with something like a bx_digital plugin (too many unlabelled knobs) or a Soothe (push frequency up to eq it down), or an Eventide H3000Factory (the interface on the actual unit was hard to operate, bringing it to the computer didn't make it easier
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHanes View Post
For me personally I like to try different things out when looking to create an effect.

So I love the new ProTools has the search function; I'll start typing in tape, or saturation, and a list of plugins that I have pops up and I'll start playing around.

For a clean print master tape, I like the Isotope Ozone Tape. Recently I used Softube Tape to make a really wobbly taped piano on a recent mix for Kat Cunning "O Holy Knight". She wanted it to sound very messed up.

Mostly a tape plugin should be quite subtle; when we printed to tape we were trying to get it as clean as possible, balancing noise against print-through and over compression by tape.

For saturation I like the classic Lo-Fi. Also liking the Waves Abbey Road Saturator.

Mainly I would say that I am drawn to single-function plugins with GUI's that are quickly and easily understood. I have a hard time with something like a bx_digital plugin (too many unlabelled knobs) or a Soothe (push frequency up to eq it down), or an Eventide H3000Factory (the interface on the actual unit was hard to operate, bringing it to the computer didn't make it easier
Thanks so much John, that was really helpful! Just wanted to say it's a real privilege to get a response from you. Thanks so much for taking the time and inspiring us all! : )
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHanes View Post
For me personally I like to try different things out when looking to create an effect.

So I love the new ProTools has the search function; I'll start typing in tape, or saturation, and a list of plugins that I have pops up and I'll start playing around.

For a clean print master tape, I like the Isotope Ozone Tape. Recently I used Softube Tape to make a really wobbly taped piano on a recent mix for Kat Cunning "O Holy Knight". She wanted it to sound very messed up.

Mostly a tape plugin should be quite subtle; when we printed to tape we were trying to get it as clean as possible, balancing noise against print-through and over compression by tape.

For saturation I like the classic Lo-Fi. Also liking the Waves Abbey Road Saturator.

Mainly I would say that I am drawn to single-function plugins with GUI's that are quickly and easily understood. I have a hard time with something like a bx_digital plugin (too many unlabelled knobs) or a Soothe (push frequency up to eq it down), or an Eventide H3000Factory (the interface on the actual unit was hard to operate, bringing it to the computer didn't make it easier
Thanks. I Gotta give that abbey roads saturator another try. I rediscovered using tape plugins like last night, its reassuring to know you’re using it the same way on hits. Are you allowed to go more in-depth? Do you ever use the softube tape like you do with ozone’s tape? Not just as an fx. Would you use tape as a cumulative thing for warmth? would you just mix into it on the master track? Or just slap it on in the end and adjust?

Last edited by JblKid95; 3 weeks ago at 09:45 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2030
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Hi John! I always struggle with midrange instruments and where they sit in the stereo field. Do you have any advice on placement of pads/keys/mid-range synths to have width? (ex. panning vs. haas effect vs. doublers...or maybe a combo of these)

I understand every song is different and it depends on the producer as well but was wondering what you find most common/preferable. Thank you!!!!
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alibeats1 View Post
Hi John! I always struggle with midrange instruments and where they sit in the stereo field. Do you have any advice on placement of pads/keys/mid-range synths to have width? (ex. panning vs. haas effect vs. doublers...or maybe a combo of these)

I understand every song is different and it depends on the producer as well but was wondering what you find most common/preferable. Thank you!!!!
Not answering for John, but...

I find that a good mid/side EQ such as Fab Filter is a great tool if you have a super crowded mix in that range with a bunch of stereo instruments. For example, if you have some stereo keys fighting the vocal but you want to keep the size of it - perhaps address the center channel only with some subtractive EQ. Simply raising or lowering the volume of the center channel vs side channels is effective also.

Running a hi pass filter on ONLY the side channels of say...a piano can sometimes prevent over thinning it in a super crowded mix where you want the piano to keep some size. Or even hi passing / lo passing the side vs center at different frequencies. Be careful as too much mid / side manipulation can cause more problems than it solves if you go too far with it. Used in moderation and with just a little bit of variation on each instrument as needed can go a very long way.

Waves Center is also a useful tool for this sort of thing when you just need to keep it simple.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2032
Gear Maniac
 

Hi John! Thank you for taking your time and sharing the knowledge! Do you have favorite hip hop and/or trap reference tracks (mixed by yourself or someone else)?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2033
Gear Nut
 

Hi John,

This is a simple question about concept: Do you think, in general, mix engineers tend to overcomplicate the process? For example, too many parallel chains, complicate routings, sidechains, mix bus EQ concept etc... Reading your responses i have the impression you and Serban prefer a very straight forward approach. Do you feel that way of thinking leads to a more solid tone? I'd love to hear your thoughts about it. Thanks!!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2034
Here for the gear
 

Hey John, 2020 isn't so bad because a legend like you is throwing some tips at us.

I'd love to know when you're doing process on a single channel, special and complex send effect or even group / busses, maybe its starts to get hard with the Cpu
You are print or export channels and you bring them back to the projec as a clean audio file?

Thank you very much!
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_mixer View Post
Hi John! Thank you for taking your time and sharing the knowledge! Do you have favorite hip hop and/or trap reference tracks (mixed by yourself or someone else)?
Not really my style and genre to talk about. I'll probably embarrass myself in commenting about it at all, but I think Dre's production on Eminem was always top notch.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alibeats1 View Post
Hi John! I always struggle with midrange instruments and where they sit in the stereo field. Do you have any advice on placement of pads/keys/mid-range synths to have width? (ex. panning vs. haas effect vs. doublers...or maybe a combo of these)

I understand every song is different and it depends on the producer as well but was wondering what you find most common/preferable. Thank you!!!!
Nothing generalized to do. I think @ 47radAR has some good ideas.

I would also try finding some things that don't need to be midrange, dull them down; maybe using EQ or filters to take mid and high out of some sounds to make room for other sounds. Also automated filtes; low-pass the sound when it is it a busy part of the song (i.e. Chorus), and then open up the filter for more open parts (i.e. Bridge).

Just doing a Haas spread, or doublers probably just adds to the mid-range madness.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakelorenz View Post
Hi John,

This is a simple question about concept: Do you think, in general, mix engineers tend to overcomplicate the process? For example, too many parallel chains, complicate routings, sidechains, mix bus EQ concept etc... Reading your responses i have the impression you and Serban prefer a very straight forward approach. Do you feel that way of thinking leads to a more solid tone? I'd love to hear your thoughts about it. Thanks!!
Yes! Yes! and Yes! to the complex routings. I'm not sure that ultimately it leads to a better or different tone, but it certainly makes it easier to work with.

I do understand how it gets to that point, but I think some of the sessions that we get are very overly complicated in their routing.

When I've got a very complexly routed session file, I will usually take out routings that don't really do anything. For example, all drums routed to a drum aux channel that has no plugins, just a -2dB Volume. I'll drop down everything feeding it -2dB, and re-route to the output that the drum aux went to. Then again, that drum aux maybe fed a Music Aux, again maybe just volume and no plugins. I can again copy the volume and get rid of the Aux.

I think a lot of this is people using templates that have all of these routings built in.

I don't do recording these days, so I can's say don't use templates for this. But if I am working with just audio files delivered to us, I do like to build up the session as I go rather than use a template that has standardized routings built in.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidom View Post
Hey John, 2020 isn't so bad because a legend like you is throwing some tips at us.

I'd love to know when you're doing process on a single channel, special and complex send effect or even group / busses, maybe its starts to get hard with the Cpu
You are print or export channels and you bring them back to the projec as a clean audio file?

Thank you very much!
We've got pretty massive processing power, so generally I don't need to print and import files. I will do a commit track to clean things up at times, especially with some plugins that can be crash prone or might get settings messed up.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHanes View Post
We've got pretty massive processing power, so generally I don't need to print and import files. I will do a commit track to clean things up at times, especially with some plugins that can be crash prone or might get settings messed up.
Hi John. Massive processing power sounds a bit neat. Are you talking CPU or DSP/UAD, or a combination?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2040
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prog's Avatar
 

Hi John, forgot to ask in the Q&A:

How do you split work with Serban? Do you usually mix different songs of the album by yourselves, or mix the songs together (taking turns?), or one edits and the other mixes for one song and viceversa?

Thanks!
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