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GTQC + 1176 + LA2A compression theory Dynamics Plugins
Old 29th April 2018
  #1
Here for the gear
 

GTQC + 1176 + LA2A compression theory

Been a while, hope all is well:

So,

Pop, hip hop, Rnb vocals compression chain theory:

Disclaimer:
1) I am not an engineer.

2) This is for a particular artist that records in a pretty low voice (volume wise) and vocals sound relatively thin when recorded.

3) very open to suggestions,

Goal:
1) Big thick up front vocals
example: listen to Legend by Drake. The vocals are ridiculously dominant.

2) Not much additional processing for vocals (obviously reverb n delays etc, but I mean plugins to make the vocals sound good, for lack of better words)


Chain:
Aurora gtqc + 1176 + LA2A

I plan to (or have the engineer) drive the gtqc heavily for saturation/color, also because his voice is relatively low volume.

From there I have questions:
Does it make sense to parallel compress the signal using the gtqc then feed —> LA2a —> 1176? If not what would you do?

My logic is the GTQC PC would thicken the vocals, and the peaks should be lowered so —> LA2A’s slower attack would smoothen/silk everything out pretty uniformly, adding it’s sonic character (which should slightly thicken the vocals?) —> 1176 to add the final coloring and push the vocals extremely up front.

Next I would melodyne the vocals to add back dynamics in the performance ( I happen to write about half the lyrics on each track, so I know exactly what words I want to be louder/brought out.

Previous threads tend to suggest

Gtq2 —> 1176 —> LA2A
For two channels since they would bypass gtqc compressors

Any opinion helps, thanks!
Old 29th April 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Classic chain is mic pre > 1176 > LA-2A
1176 catches fast transients (fast attack, low ratio)
LA-2A brings up level (LA = levelling amp; not a fast responder)

Obviously the GTQC didn't exist when the classic chain came about.

UA has some classic descriptions (even though they are referring to their modelled plugin versions) of how the compressors were used for different purposes:
Tips & Tricks — 1176 Classic Limiter Collection | Universal Audio
Tips & Tricks — Teletronix LA-2A Classic Leveler Plug-In Collection | Universal Audio
Old 29th April 2018
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.M.G View Post
Next I would melodyne the vocals to add back dynamics in the performance ( I happen to write about half the lyrics on each track, so I know exactly what words I want to be louder/brought out.
So you are going to kill the performance of the vocals only so you can attempt to bring it back digitally later?
To bring up levels (even on words) --> that's what a mixer is for
To bring back dynamics (an expander), if you know you are the cause of the problem in the first place, don't be the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.M.G View Post
Previous threads tend to suggest
Gtq2 —> 1176 —> LA2A
For two channels since they would bypass gtqc compressors
Yes, previous advice is right.

Remember that compressing means bringing up noise floor and everything (because you are both going to compress and gain.) You are driving a processed signal into another processor. Saturate at the end so you have some control not at the beginning (unless it is intentional like on guitars, etc) otherwise the saturation will affect the compressor too. You could also highpass or send unprocessed signal into the sidechain of some compressors so the compressors aren't reacting to the increased noise floor/saturation.
Old 30th April 2018
  #4
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Classic chain is mic pre > 1176 > LA-2A
1176 catches fast transients (fast attack, low ratio)
LA-2A brings up level (LA = levelling amp; not a fast responder)

Obviously the GTQC didn't exist when the classic chain came about.

UA has some classic descriptions (even though they are referring to their modelled plugin versions) of how the compressors were used for different purposes:
Tips & Tricks — 1176 Classic Limiter Collection | Universal Audio
Tips & Tricks — Teletronix LA-2A Classic Leveler Plug-In Collection | Universal Audio
Got ya, Thanks for the link!
Old 30th April 2018
  #5
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
So you are going to kill the performance of the vocals only so you can attempt to bring it back digitally later?
To bring up levels (even on words) --> that's what a mixer is for
To bring back dynamics (an expander), if you know you are the cause of the problem in the first place, don't be the problem.

Yes, previous advice is right.

Remember that compressing means bringing up noise floor and everything (because you are both going to compress and gain.) You are driving a processed signal into another processor. Saturate at the end so you have some control not at the beginning (unless it is intentional like on guitars, etc) otherwise the saturation will affect the compressor too. You could also highpass or send unprocessed signal into the sidechain of some compressors so the compressors aren't reacting to the increased noise floor/saturation.
- yeah, I’m sure some would say it’s killing the performance, others might say the end justifies the means

- got ya, thanks for the tip! Saturating at the end to have control would make theoretical sense. As stated early, I am not an engineer. I just know what I think sounds good.

-So I guess my question becomes what technique is used for the saturation/harmonic distortion in a song like “Gods plan” by Drake? (What I think is) The Neve being driven hard is very apparent.

When I listen to 1073 shootouts it seems they usually push it hard and follow it with whatever compressor they are using, so I just assumed it would be fine to push it and send the signal straight to 1176 —> LA2A.

Maybe it’s done by using side chains?

What do you think?
Old 30th April 2018
  #6
Lives for gear
The GTQC is a pre, eq, opto and fet comp. It is not as flexible as having separated comps cause in order to use both in combination, you don't have the luxury of adjusting ratio, attack and release. Despite the fact I am almost certain the GTQC alone can attain the sound the OP seeks. One heck of a channel strip.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Classic chain is mic pre > 1176 > LA-2A
1176 catches fast transients (fast attack, low ratio)
LA-2A brings up level (LA = levelling amp; not a fast responder)

Obviously the GTQC didn't exist when the classic chain came about.

UA has some classic descriptions (even though they are referring to their modelled plugin versions) of how the compressors were used for different purposes:
Tips & Tricks — 1176 Classic Limiter Collection | Universal Audio
Tips & Tricks — Teletronix LA-2A Classic Leveler Plug-In Collection | Universal Audio
Old 1st May 2018
  #7
Lives for gear
Forgive me if I'm wrong but is there a reason this thread isn't about mic selection?
Old 1st May 2018
  #8
Lives for gear
 
IanBSC's Avatar
To keep it simple, try just using the compression from the GTQC first. Then compare with adding separate processors.

I have used a Klaus Mod U87>GTP-8>MoFet76>LA2A chain and it sounded extremely good. The preamp was pushed a bit for a saturated sound, 5db max from the MoFet, 3db max from the LA2A. No need for parallel compression. This was for a fairly lyrical vocal, however.

Even more important with a soft voice is getting the mic placement right.
Old 1st May 2018
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenix View Post
Forgive me if I'm wrong but is there a reason this thread isn't about mic selection?
Kinda what I was thinking. Grab a mic with strong proximity effect and get right on top of it.
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