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Chandler REDD mic next to a vintage U87 Condenser Microphones
View Poll Results: Should I give in to gearlust?
Get the REDD!
35 Votes - 41.67%
Stick with the 87!
49 Votes - 58.33%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

Old 21st July 2018
  #241
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jjblair's Avatar
If I had to own only one microphone to depend on to record any source well, it would be the M49.

Last edited by jjblair; 21st July 2018 at 06:08 PM..
Old 21st July 2018
  #242
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jjblair's Avatar
Re the AA CM49: LOL.
Old 21st July 2018
  #243
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Watch out JJ. Uli may get inspired to create the Behringer N49! Better than any M49, cause it's one letter higher! Chris
Old 21st July 2018
  #244
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jjblair's Avatar
I own a few of them, and I've spent considerable time under the hood tailoring the sound I want. I've also used a few more at other studios. It's a very intricate circuit, and even just changing the tube to a self-biasing cathode circuit will change the sound, let alone other revisions that happened between the original and the C variant. Transformer change, circuit change, etc. I'm in agreement that the idea that a cathode follower 6072 circuit is going sound nothing like an M49. The AC701 and BV11 are so integral to the sound, not to mention that a plate loaded circuit and a cathode follower respond very differently. I'm also skeptical about the claim that he got the noise floor lower than the original. First off, show me a 6072 that's quieter than Neumann approved AC701, let alone one made by Electro Harmonix. Second, I don't think I've ever heard a cathode follower that was quieter than a plate loaded circuit. That's usually one of their drawbacks. I mean, got bless him if he figured it out, but it's a lower gain circuit with the same noise, which means that the S:N is going to have to be louder.

I'm sure it's a cool mic, and useful for many things, but I'm really getting tired of the marketing snake oil people are peddling. "Identical to the K47"? I've heard the ones by people who've been making capsules for decades have done, and I'm not hearing any that are identical to the Neumann K47. Can't people find a way to market their gear without being completely full of crap?

Last edited by jjblair; 22nd July 2018 at 10:17 AM..
Old 22nd July 2018
  #245
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Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
The best bet for a “new” M49 is to get the Tab kit, and put it together with a real Neumann k49/47.
This idea interests me a lot. I have contemplated doing an AMI kit a few times, but combining it with actual Neumann parts would be extra cool!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
I have, more than a few times. I actually think its a really nice microphone. It is a lot closer to the real thing than the M-149, but I still think its different than the OG M-49, which has a certain indescribable signature of image and tone. Anyway, even though this mic is really nice, I just want something else instead. I am still drooling for this sound. Haven't achieved what I want yet.
That's cool to read that it is good and fairly close. But I certainly understand that nothing sounds quite like that magic Neumann midrange...
I'm a little sick too of trying to get 'that' special sound (for me, a huge, present, smooth tubey vocal sound, e.g. Ryan Adams), getting clones, and then being disappointed when they're good but not -quite- there/don't have that sweet, silky thing going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Kroc, your excellent clips, along with other ones posted recently inspired me to finally start to learn how to post audio clips here at GS. I have a couple of nice/brief acapella clips (around 20 to 30 seconds), that I plan to post soon in the "Psychedelic" thread I started recently. Am guessing that, because they are wav files, they were too large to be part of an attachment. They were done with a "flukey" $60 microphone (AKG D790) that records my voice very well.
More than one local pro musician who've heard them, thought they were done on a "High End" LDC.

Chris
Awesome to hear! Glad this has been inspiring for you. Can't wait to check it out.
Old 22nd July 2018
  #246
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Thanks! They're "up" now there for listening.
IMHO shows you can get a good vocal capture sometimes, with cheap stuff...
Chris
Old 22nd July 2018
  #247
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Funny Cat's Avatar
Just remembered. If you really want an M49 style mic that gets pretty close, I bet Shannon Rhoades (sp?) of mic rehab could build one easily. He is the mic tech for Blackbird studios and has access to just about every mic you can think of. Not only that but he's been restoring classic mics for years. His work is top notch.

Shannon built an M269c clone (and a few others) for my late production partner and it was an absolutely fantastic mic. When he built it he had an M269 on hand for comparison and when it was done he then further tuned it by ear to match his Neumann.

I really like the Redd but based on all the clips I've heard I don't feel it's a standout on vocals. It's good on vocals but not necessarily great to my ears. I think where it really excels is on acoustic instrument miking. Just my humble opinion of course.
Old 22nd July 2018
  #248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldone View Post
Well, no, if your creating EDM music. But the example was more of a ballad and in Nashville, that is the money sound. Heck yeah, there's lot's of modern records with emotion and that's exactly what people want. If I want the soul-less and compressed Chinese capsule sound, I can put up an MXL mic smash it with a plugin in and save you the money of the REDD.
I know this thread has slipped right off the rails when I'm seeing the Redd being compared to an MXL with a "soul-less and compressed Chinese capsule sound".

Last edited by themiracle; 22nd July 2018 at 07:12 PM.. Reason: added quotations
Old 22nd July 2018
  #249
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Yes, but at least we still put the "fun" back in dysfunctional!

Chris
Old 22nd July 2018
  #250
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by themiracle View Post
I know this thread has slipped right off the rails when I'm seeing the Redd being compared to an MXL with a "soul-less and compressed Chinese capsule sound".
How does a capsule sound compressed? That's a new one on me.
Old 23rd July 2018
  #251
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Funny Cat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
Can't people find a way to market their gear without being completely full of crap?

I think this is what really makes the Redd unique i.e. the fact that it isn't a 12/47/49/67/87/251/269/800 wanna' be. Did I miss any of the BIG's? I think the Redd is it's own beast. I find that cool for a mic in this generation to just be "itself".
Old 23rd July 2018
  #252
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
I think this is what really makes the Redd unique i.e. the fact that it isn't a 12/47/49/67/87/251/269/800 wanna' be. Did I miss any of the BIG's? I think the Redd is it's own beast. I find that cool for a mic in this generation to just be "itself".
We were saying that about the Blue Bottle 15 years ago. Hopefully this holds up better than that did.
Old 23rd July 2018
  #253
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adam_f's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
I think this is what really makes the Redd unique i.e. the fact that it isn't a 12/47/49/67/87/251/269/800 wanna' be. Did I miss any of the BIG's? I think the Redd is it's own beast. I find that cool for a mic in this generation to just be "itself".
FWIW @jjblair comments were not in reference to the REDD, however regarding an M49 clone. Though, you are correct, the REDD is its own thing, “its own beast” and not a clone of anything.

Last edited by adam_f; 23rd July 2018 at 02:16 AM..
Old 23rd July 2018
  #254
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Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Thanks! They're "up" now there for listening.
IMHO shows you can get a good vocal capture sometimes, with cheap stuff...
Chris
Actually, in relation to that... today I thought, 'Hmm, I use the MA5 much more than my ISA 430MKII at the moment - but it was cool to be able to use the full channel strip to EQ, de-ess and compress vocals with hardware during tracking... (the preamp doesn't always suit the mic, but the processing rocks) What if I patch the MA5 into the 430 line input and get the best of both worlds?'
So I started experimenting with that setup using an Electro-Voice RE20 on a track I've been working on for the album (but haven't been happy with the vocal sound), just because it was there and didn't need much setup... and it totally works with the song. A little grittier than my 87/less pretty, in a more present radio-friendly kind of way - apparently that's what the song needed. You never know what might work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
I really like the Redd but based on all the clips I've heard I don't feel it's a standout on vocals. It's good on vocals but not necessarily great to my ears. I think where it really excels is on acoustic instrument miking. Just my humble opinion of course.
This is just my speculation, but I think the key factor is that it's super sensitive to the harmonic content in the source material.

I think it sounds pretty solid on the female vocal samples on the ZenPro clipalator. But it doesn't seem like she has a lot of "Singer's Formant" - the harmonic stuff that comes through on trained singers, that helps you project and cut through. In those instances (think maybe vocalists like Taylor Swift, some jazz vocalists, men with darker/lower voices) it might be totally ideal and balance the natural tone very nicely, because you want to thicken up the sound and add some sheen on top to make the vocal a little more spicy.
Old 23rd July 2018
  #255
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Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
I have, more than a few times. I actually think its a really nice microphone. It is a lot closer to the real thing than the M-149, but I still think its different than the OG M-49, which has a certain indescribable signature of image and tone. Anyway, even though this mic is really nice, I just want something else instead. I am still drooling for this sound. Haven't achieved what I want yet.
Hey Doc, another note on that certain indescribable image and tone you get from the 'real deal'...
I guess you never actually know until you sing through it (so this might be a silly question), but, if one of these days I were to go chasing after a Flea clone (47 or 49), do you think I'd be headed for disappointment anyway when I compare it to my solid vintage U87 (or the REDD for that matter)? Are they actually worth checking out with that in mind, or would I be better off saving for a -real- 47/49/67/upgrading the other parts of my chain?



I do love that Neumann tone... I came across a couple of clips I did a few years ago through a vintage U47 FET and a U89 (through an Avalon 2022 I believe), and really dug the sound of both.
Old 23rd July 2018
  #256
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Kroc, considering those two vocals were casually recorded in a kitchen... Did that microphone sound
good on me? Not saying it's on the level of your 87.

Right now, my "vocal benchmarks" are the RCA 44 & 77, along with the Neumann K47 capsule.
My limited experience indicates, other things being equal, the K67 style capsule doesn't work as well on me. (unless Bock Soundelux U195 w/FAT switch)
Chris
Old 23rd July 2018
  #257
m03
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m03's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
I guess you never actually know until you sing through it (so this might be a silly question), but, if one of these days I were to go chasing after a Flea clone (47 or 49), do you think I'd be headed for disappointment anyway when I compare it to my solid vintage U87 (or the REDD for that matter)? Are they actually worth checking out with that in mind, or would I be better off saving for a -real- 47/49/67/upgrading the other parts of my chain?
I'm not Doc, but I do have your mic selection (REDD and an early U87) as well as a Flea 47, and "disappointment" is not a word I'd ever use to describe it.
Old 23rd July 2018
  #258
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DrSax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
We were saying that about the Blue Bottle 15 years ago. Hopefully this holds up better than that did.
I owned the Blue Bottle with 6 caps for 10 years... good Mic. But sold it. It rarely came out on top when selecting mics for clients or myself. The REDD is vastly superior in my usage. I predict it will hold the test of time.
Old 23rd July 2018
  #259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
Hey Doc, another note on that certain indescribable image and tone you get from the 'real deal'...
I guess you never actually know until you sing through it (so this might be a silly question), but, if one of these days I were to go chasing after a Flea clone (47 or 49), do you think I'd be headed for disappointment anyway when I compare it to my solid vintage U87 (or the REDD for that matter)? Are they actually worth checking out with that in mind, or would I be better off saving for a -real- 47/49/67/upgrading the other parts of my chain?



I do love that Neumann tone... I came across a couple of clips I did a few years ago through a vintage U47 FET and a U89 (through an Avalon 2022 I believe), and really dug the sound of both.
It is basically impossible for me to say what will tickle your pickle with regard to any microphone, as its all personal preference in what works best for you. I have only been browsing through this thread and only quickly listened to some of the files you posted, so I don't really have enough information at hand to thoughtfully consider what you might fall in love with.

The Flea offerings are very nice. Worth a shot. Personally, I wouldn't be disappointed by the Flea's, [I would probably choose the 49 over the 47, as I already have that area covered with a custom microphone I helped design] but to be completely honest, they have not "WOW'd" me.

But...In my opinion, EVERYTHING is worth checking out. I just can't say what you will find to be a waste of effort. Getting into Superlatives is old hat for me. I just don't do it anymore.

I am not sure paying high-ticket prices for OG mics is worth it. But they do sound special. However, they all sound different from one another so you have to try every single one that is available to find a good one. The only mic that I find worth the price is the M-49, but I would only pay 6-7K for one. I wouldn't pay $9500 or 15K, etc. You can buy a whole lot more good stuff than one mic for that kind of bread.

But, don't listen to me. Listen for yourself.

At any rate, For whatever it may be worth, If I were to suggest things;

My buddy Stayne at Innertube Audio makes a Retro-Fit Tube amp kit for the 87. It really shines in many ways. Very special tone and action and utterly listenable. Plus its reversible in 1 minute to your stock 87 sound. Can't beat that. A mic that sounds like $2500 and a Mic that sounds like $6000. Sweet!

In a similar sense, another one that has recently "WOW'd" me is the new Neumann u-67 reissue. Because it has a very cool mojo in the middle with no harshness to consonants. Sounded giant to me, with a close-to-the-mic singer. That microphone has a very identifiable sound that I admire.

Another microphone that I find magical is the new Microtech Gefell CMV-563/M7s which has a softer, chewy & harmonic but pristinely polished flavor that shoots cupid's arrow into my chest whenever I hear it.

peace
a.j.b
Old 23rd July 2018
  #260
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Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
It is basically impossible for me to say what will tickle your pickle with regard to any microphone, as its all personal preference in what works best for you.
Hehe. I feel like this should just be a disclaimer attached to every thread. Thanks for offering your feedback, anyway. I meant my question more in relation to your personal experience with those mics. I certainly don't expect telepathy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
I have only been browsing through this thread and only quickly listened to some of the files you posted, so I don't really have enough information at hand to thoughtfully consider what you might fall in love with.

The Flea offerings are very nice. Worth a shot. Personally, I wouldn't be disappointed by the Flea's, [I would probably choose the 49 over the 47, as I already have that area covered with a custom microphone I helped design] but to be completely honest, they have not "WOW'd" me.

But...In my opinion, EVERYTHING is worth checking out. I just can't say what you will find to be a waste of effort. Getting into Superlatives is old hat for me. I just don't do it anymore.

I am not sure paying high-ticket prices for OG mics is worth it. But they do sound special. However, they all sound different from one another so you have to try every single one that is available to find a good one. The only mic that I find worth the price is the M-49, but I would only pay 6-7K for one. I wouldn't pay $9500 or 15K, etc. You can buy a whole lot more good stuff than one mic for that kind of bread.

But, don't listen to me. Listen for yourself.

At any rate, For whatever it may be worth, If I were to suggest things;

My buddy Stayne at Innertube Audio makes a Retro-Fit Tube amp kit for the 87. It really shines in many ways. Very special tone and action and utterly listenable. Plus its reversible in 1 minute to your stock 87 sound. Can't beat that. A mic that sounds like $2500 and a Mic that sounds like $6000. Sweet!

In a similar sense, another one that has recently "WOW'd" me is the new Neumann u-67 reissue. Because it has a very cool mojo in the middle with no harshness to consonants. Sounded giant to me, with a close-to-the-mic singer. That microphone has a very identifiable sound that I admire.

Another microphone that I find magical is the new Microtech Gefell CMV-563/M7s which has a softer, chewy & harmonic but pristinely polished flavor that shoots cupid's arrow into my chest whenever I hear it.

peace
a.j.b
Thanks for the suggestions!

That's cool about your custom mic - in terms of just getting a good 47 sound, are there any objective advantages to buying a U47 clone from a boutique company over building a custom one, like the AMI kit? Provided that you're using high quality components? I have some soldering experience, so I've been tempted to go that route a few times (albeit with a kit, not designing my own). I suppose the main thing stopping me is that I'm worried about whether I could achieve the same results without a lot of experience in that area; I can't tell if I'd be saving money or wasting it.

On vintage mics all sounding different - the vintage '50s U47 that I used last month (which I posted clips of earlier) sounded a little thin. Definitely much thinner than I expected. However, that one had the original M7 capsule, so I'm wondering if it might have dried out and lost a lot of low end. Hence, I am still curious about 47s. Particularly newer clones where that isn't an issue.

The Innertube kit sounds pretty cool. I've seen mention of it a number of times. Does it work with vintage 87s too? And (another very subjective question, and one I assume you may have a biased opinion on with Stayne being your buddy, but) how do you find the sound in comparison to the 67 reissue?

The 67 reissue might actually be pretty solid choice for me to save for down the track... The vintage 67 we used definitely worked for my voice. And while I appreciate the magic of the vintage versions, I haven't met a Neumann, new or old, that I genuinely disliked the sound of on my voice (heresy, I know!). Even the 87Ai - it was a little 'harder' sounding, but still had that nice silky midrange clarity. And it seems like the 67 RI is closer to the vintage version than that anyway. So if it has that sound, but in a new microphone (where you don't have to pay a 'Holy Grail' premium for a potentially less reliable/consistent tool), that's not a bad deal. Plus a 67 is definitely a useful client-drawing tool. I'm curious to see how much they go for when they start popping up on the used market.

Anyway, I clearly have a problem with microphone addiction, and am going to go back to working on my album before I sell all of my worldly possessions for more Neumanns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m03 View Post
I'm not Doc, but I do have your mic selection (REDD and an early U87) as well as a Flea 47, and "disappointment" is not a word I'd ever use to describe it.
Hey m03! Thanks for the feedback. Could you elaborate on that? What do you think the main differences are between the three? I'd be super grateful if you have any samples that you might be able to share. (That'd even be on topic with the thread's initial subject. Ha!)

I love my 87 sound (it's the benchmark for my vocal sound. I'm never really unhappy with it, and it's always warm and listenable) but would love to also have a tube LDC option with the same warmth, but with less cloudiness and a little more presence. I thought the REDD might do the trick, but (and again, no offense to Chandler. They are a great company) it didn't seem to match up and feels a little too harsh, sibilant and edgy on my voice. So, I guess, when I can afford it, I'd love too look for something right in the middle, and I see the Flea gets a lot of good reviews.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Kroc, considering those two vocals were casually recorded in a kitchen... Did that microphone sound
good on me? Not saying it's on the level of your 87.

Right now, my "vocal benchmarks" are the RCA 44 & 77, along with the Neumann K47 capsule.
My limited experience indicates, other things being equal, the K67 style capsule doesn't work as well on me. (unless Bock Soundelux U195 w/FAT switch)
Chris
Hey Chris. Have been meaning to get back to you and write something in your thread - the samples sound really cool. I'm not really sure what useful feedback I can give, however. It's a little hard to tell the character of the mic itself with the effects you have on it. And I don't know what you sound like through the other mics you mentioned, or what you sound like naturally, in a room, so I don't have any basis for comparison to make any suggestions. But it definitely sounds like a very workable sound for a retro psychedelic vibe, though I haven't heard it within the context of an arrangement. You might get a little more clarity/presence from the mic if you record in a dryer space than your kitchen. It's a darker sound, but doesn't seem too muddy. If you notch out some 400-800Hz stuff I'm sure it'd sit great in a mix? Sorry if that isn't especially helpful.
Cheers!
Old 23rd July 2018
  #261
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Thanks Kroc for listening, I really appreciate it. There's a lot of low-mid energy/overtone in my low tenor voice, that becomes much less subtle if I shift into a deeper baritone. I may post the original wav files, that were primarily the vocal plus some reverb, over in the Low End forum. That microphone (AKG D790) is one of the better dynamics for vocals, for those who either can't afford a $1000+ LDC microphone or want something good for live recording. It has a similar response to the Beyer M88. I bought a 2nd D790, which sounds very good, but not as good as my original one used for the clips (2nd one relegated to only live performance now). As some on this thread may already know, on certain voices, the M88 bears a "family resemblance" to a quality Neumann LDC.
(Long live the Phil Collins' "Sussudio studio vocal microphone"!)

I remember Bon Ohlsson posting he was able to sonically match the Beyer M88
doing "punch ins" on a singer, where same singer used a U87 on the original tracks. Before the end of the year, if I head North to L.A. for a visit, I plan to visit Vintage King to shoot out some other vocal microphones vs. the M88.
(I foolishly sold my TG version around 10 years ago)

IMHO within the Psychedelic genre, and those bands who have music influenced by it like U2 (Beta 58/SM58) or The Stone Roses (SM58), can get away with this stuff extremely well since the tracks are highly processed anyway.

I just can't imagine one of Nat King Cole's classic ballads, sounding quite as magical on a Shure Beta 58!

Chris
Old 24th July 2018
  #262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
Hehe. I feel like this should just be a disclaimer attached to every thread. Thanks for offering your feedback, anyway. I meant my question more in relation to your personal experience with those mics. I certainly don't expect telepathy!
Cool. I understand. I will just stick to my personal opinions then. Hopefully, it doesn't become troll bait for people who can't jive with it.

Quote:
Thanks for the suggestions!
No worries. Happy to try and help out.

Quote:
That's cool about your custom mic - in terms of just getting a good 47 sound, are there any objective advantages to buying a U47 clone from a boutique company over building a custom one, like the AMI kit? Provided that you're using high quality components? I have some soldering experience, so I've been tempted to go that route a few times (albeit with a kit, not designing my own). I suppose the main thing stopping me is that I'm worried about whether I could achieve the same results without a lot of experience in that area; I can't tell if I'd be saving money or wasting it.
Firstly, building a microphone yourself can be a lot of fun. If you are into that sorta thing. Some people don't have time to do it, or even know how. I might be one of those people, but that's why I have friends who do! Anyway, building something on your own is way more fun than just buying something that everyone else uses, which to me, is a lot more boring. Unless its something really worthwhile and unique and doesn't just attempt to rip something off and brings something fresh which you love.

Certainly, with all the mic makers and gear designers out there today, in 2018....there is not much reason to stick to a vintage fetish. I don't know about you, or the readers of this post, but I frankly do not need vintage gear. I just like the way vintage gear sounds. But not enough to spend Collectors coin on it. Because I can get the job done with what I have available for reasonable costs. There is exceptional equipment available to the users now.

Buying an AMI kit is a good idea. Its only a waste of money if you never finish it, or it comes out sounding like poop and you never use it. Both of those things are manageable. Oliver was a great friend of mine, and I am super glad Dennis is carrying the torch to champion his greatness. I think they sound great if the builder puts some love and care into their work.

And there are a few techs who can assemble them for you. You can certainly get nerdy and swap around components, caps, transformers, tubes, etc...but its not really my lane. I don't find modifying every do-dad in a mic is needed for me to work with it. I would suspect you could build a fine specimen. Will it be exactly like a vintage mic? Of course not!

I do believe that every part will affect the sound and you can spend eons tweaking something. Personally, I don't want or need to do that. But I have my own ideas of what parts could and should be used. Probably not something I will share here, because it will water down my own uniqueness. I have been meaning to spend some money on getting one of those kits, and change out a few things, but recently I decided to go a different route altogether.

Quote:
On vintage mics all sounding different - the vintage '50s U47 that I used last month (which I posted clips of earlier) sounded a little thin. Definitely much thinner than I expected. However, that one had the original M7 capsule, so I'm wondering if it might have dried out and lost a lot of low end. Hence, I am still curious about 47s. Particularly newer clones where that isn't an issue.
Quite possibly. But who can say about that specific U47. Maybe you should try one with a K47. Just to get a gauge on that.

Quote:
The Innertube kit sounds pretty cool. I've seen mention of it a number of times. Does it work with vintage 87s too? And (another very subjective question, and one I assume you may have a biased opinion on with Stayne being your buddy, but) how do you find the sound in comparison to the 67 reissue?
Indeed it does. Just gotta let Stayne now before he builds it up. I have not directly compared these two mics, but I can tell you the IT-87 is nothing like a 67 vintage or new. It is its own thing, and most similar to Stayne's other microphone amplifiers. It does indeed get verbally compared a lot, I've noticed -- but I am not sure why. People don't seem to really be educated about tube circuits. Anyway, it uses A LOT less parts in the signal path and has a pretty amazing result. The IT87 has a certain non-linear compression to it. which turns the Neumann Hardness into a Velvet Trampoline. It has a really open sound, but the action is extremely forgiving at loud levels. Its silky and open and extremely pure. I would use the term "polished" and "round" to describe it. You get the top end detail though, which is one of his magic tricks.

Quote:
The 67 reissue might actually be a pretty solid choice for me to save for down the track... The vintage 67 we used definitely worked for my voice. And while I appreciate the magic of the vintage versions, I haven't met a Neumann, new or old, that I genuinely disliked the sound of on my voice (heresy, I know!). Even the 87Ai - it was a little 'harder' sounding, but still had that nice silky midrange clarity. And it seems like the 67 RI is closer to the vintage version than that anyway. So if it has that sound, but in a new microphone (where you don't have to pay a 'Holy Grail' premium for a potentially less reliable/consistent tool), that's not a bad deal. Plus a 67 is definitely a useful client-drawing tool. I'm curious to see how much they go for when they start popping up on the used market.
A lot of Neumann mics have a harder sound on certain sources, to my ears.
Old 24th July 2018
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
My buddy Stayne at Innertube Audio makes a Retro-Fit Tube amp kit for the 87. It really shines in many ways. Very special tone and action and utterly listenable. Plus its reversible in 1 minute to your stock 87 sound. Can't beat that. A mic that sounds like $2500 and a Mic that sounds like $6000. Sweet!
Thanks for the head's up, I'm gonna give Stayne a call.
Old 25th July 2018
  #264
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumhead57 View Post
Thanks for the head's up, I'm gonna give Stayne a call.
Try it before you buy it. It's not everybody's cup of tea.
Old 25th July 2018
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
Try it before you buy it. It's not everybody's cup of tea.
Thanks, jj, I'll look into that.
Old 25th July 2018
  #266
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
Firstly, building a microphone yourself can be a lot of fun. If you are into that sorta thing. Some people don't have time to do it, or even know how. I might be one of those people, but that's why I have friends who do! Anyway, building something on your own is way more fun than just buying something that everyone else uses, which to me, is a lot more boring. Unless its something really worthwhile and unique and doesn't just attempt to rip something off and brings something fresh which you love.

Certainly, with all the mic makers and gear designers out there today, in 2018....there is not much reason to stick to a vintage fetish. I don't know about you, or the readers of this post, but I frankly do not need vintage gear. I just like the way vintage gear sounds. But not enough to spend Collectors coin on it. Because I can get the job done with what I have available for reasonable costs. There is exceptional equipment available to the users now.

Buying an AMI kit is a good idea. Its only a waste of money if you never finish it, or it comes out sounding like poop and you never use it. Both of those things are manageable. Oliver was a great friend of mine, and I am super glad Dennis is carrying the torch to champion his greatness. I think they sound great if the builder puts some love and care into their work.

And there are a few techs who can assemble them for you. You can certainly get nerdy and swap around components, caps, transformers, tubes, etc...but its not really my lane. I don't find modifying every do-dad in a mic is needed for me to work with it. I would suspect you could build a fine specimen. Will it be exactly like a vintage mic? Of course not!

I do believe that every part will affect the sound and you can spend eons tweaking something. Personally, I don't want or need to do that. But I have my own ideas of what parts could and should be used. Probably not something I will share here, because it will water down my own uniqueness. I have been meaning to spend some money on getting one of those kits, and change out a few things, but recently I decided to go a different route altogether.
For sure I am into that kind of thing, and love the idea of having a unique, awesome sounding mic - I have built a Tweed 5E3 clone before, and my father is an electronic engineer, so I do have someone to ask if I really run into issues. I can solder (though I'm not sure where my technique would rank with that in the scheme of things) and follow a kit. I'm not knowledgeable enough about fine-tweaking electronics and would probably need to find guidance regarding biasing, trouble-shooting and whatever else might arise.
I suppose what I'm wondering is whether it's possible to make a kit mic that sounds as good as modern pre-built clones? Or, if you don't have a lot of building experience, are you likely to wind up with something that sounds like... well, like you made it at home? With noise, a veiled sound, etc.
I ask because there aren't really a lot of clips floating around of the AMI kit to discern what it actually sounds like, from what I've seen thus far. Likely because there is no manufacturer marketing them, there are heaps of build options, and you require a more esoteric skillset to get one (unless you pay to have one built).

Anyway, this may not be an answerable question without actually just trying the kit.

Cheers,
Dan
Old 26th July 2018
  #267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
For sure I am into that kind of thing, and love the idea of having a unique, awesome sounding mic - I have built a Tweed 5E3 clone before, and my father is an electronic engineer, so I do have someone to ask if I really run into issues. I can solder (though I'm not sure where my technique would rank with that in the scheme of things) and follow a kit. I'm not knowledgeable enough about fine-tweaking electronics and would probably need to find guidance regarding biasing, trouble-shooting and whatever else might arise.
I suppose what I'm wondering is whether it's possible to make a kit mic that sounds as good as modern pre-built clones?
My opinion would be an unequivocal, yes.


Quote:
Or, if you don't have a lot of building experience, are you likely to wind up with something that sounds like... well, like you made it at home? With noise, a veiled sound, etc.
I don't think you would end up with a dog, unless you started rolling bunk tubes into it and ended up with a noisy and bad sounding one. The tubes that are selected by AMI are pretty good. And you can upgrade to the M7 capsule. Oliver knew tubes more than most. And like I said, Dennis is carrying that torch.

Quote:
I ask because there aren't really a lot of clips floating around of the AMI kit to discern what it actually sounds like, from what I've seen thus far. Likely because there is no manufacturer marketing them, there are heaps of build options, and you require a more esoteric skillset to get one (unless you pay to have one built).
There are a few techs around who have experience building these kits. You might reach out and ask. Or maybe just call Dennis at AMI and see what he says.
Old 27th July 2018
  #268
Lives for gear
 
burns46824's Avatar
Both sound usable to me. Just depends on your preferred EQ and reverb settings.

I'm generally a fan of sticking to vintage gear, FWIW.
Old 27th July 2018
  #269
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
How does a capsule sound compressed? That's a new one on me.
I have no idea, and at this point I'm too afraid to ask..
Old 27th July 2018
  #270
Lives for gear
 
jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by themiracle View Post
I have no idea, and at this point I'm too afraid to ask..
What I mean is, if you are talking about compression, in terms of limited dynamic range, how is the capsule doing that? Or do you mean something else?
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