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Chandler REDD mic next to a vintage U87 Condenser Microphones
View Poll Results: Should I give in to gearlust?
Get the REDD!
35 Votes - 41.67%
Stick with the 87!
49 Votes - 58.33%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

Old 28th June 2018
  #91
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DrSax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
Update on the REDD:
I shipped Chandler the mic last week (Adam has been extremely helpful!) - the microphone itself is mechanically fine, but there was something wrong with the power supply unit. They tried my REDD with other PSUs (and other mics with my PSU), and noticed that the sound was significantly different with my power supply. Which may have been because of the cable, or as an ex-demo mic, perhaps it had been damaged by someone else. Either way, they are sending the mic back with new tubes and a new power supply, and have done all this with a one day turnaround time. I am very impressed!

I'm very relieved to know I didn't fry a $4000 microphone with a crappy cable, but also happy to hear that there was indeed something wrong. Looking forward to trying the REDD out properly, and hearing it in all its glory! I'll post samples when I get it back, hopefully later this week/early next.

Cheers.
Dan
Glad to hear this. They are an outstanding company. My experience with Chandler has been absolutely top notch and I’m loving the REDD Mic here!!!
Old 2nd July 2018
  #92
Gear Guru
Really great to hear a company does that kind of customer service. Most it's "Reformat your hard drive and have a nice day!"......
Old 4th July 2018
  #93
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSax View Post
Glad to hear this. They are an outstanding company. My experience with Chandler has been absolutely top notch and I’m loving the REDD Mic here!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Really great to hear a company does that kind of customer service. Most it's "Reformat your hard drive and have a nice day!"......
Definitely! Big thanks again to Adam for sorting it all out.

Okay, so... Here's a new comparison between the REDD (working properly this time, without the screwed up PSU) and my 87 (through MA5). About six inches off the mics, with a pop filter in between. Totally raw: no EQ, de-esser, compression or verb - just a limiter on the master (not actually doing any gain reduction) to bring up the volume.
Attached Files
Old 4th July 2018
  #94
Gear Addict
 

U87 still seems vastly superior here. Less sibilant, much warmer.

I suspect the difference is primarily frequency response though, and the two could probably be made to sound nearly identical with some very careful EQ.
Old 4th July 2018
  #95
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Funny Cat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
Definitely! Big thanks again to Adam for sorting it all out.

Okay, so... Here's a new comparison between the REDD (working properly this time, without the screwed up PSU) and my 87 (through MA5). About six inches off the mics, with a pop filter in between. Totally raw: no EQ, de-esser, compression or verb - just a limiter on the master (not actually doing any gain reduction) to bring up the volume.


Much closer with the "fixed" mic but I still preferred the u87 on your voice. I think your voice just really matches that particular 87 real well. The Redd was thinner and a lot more sibilant. Also was grabbing a bit more room than the 87 on this recording. Again, great voice!



P.S. Are you originally from N.Y? You have a slight accent when you are talking (only on certain words). Almost sounds Australian? I'm from Brooklyn btw.
Old 4th July 2018
  #96
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Funny Cat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasbin View Post
U87 still seems vastly superior here. Less sibilant, much warmer.

I suspect the difference is primarily frequency response though, and the two could probably be made to sound nearly identical with some very careful EQ.

We were posting at the same time but YEP!
Old 5th July 2018
  #97
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
Much closer with the "fixed" mic but I still preferred the u87 on your voice. I think your voice just really matches that particular 87 real well. The Redd was thinner and a lot more sibilant. Also was grabbing a bit more room than the 87 on this recording. Again, great voice!

P.S. Are you originally from N.Y? You have a slight accent when you are talking (only on certain words). Almost sounds Australian? I'm from Brooklyn btw.
Thanks! And word: I was hoping for more of a 'holy crap, THERE'S my low end' kind of moment when I got it back. Though it does seem better than it was before. Unless I'm doing something wrong here, but it's plugged directly into my UA Apollo at line level with a high quality Mogami cable and nothing else in between.

Ha, good ear! I'm from Melbourne, Australia, born and raised - until I moved over here in 2015 for my music. I'm actually living outside the city at the moment building a studio in the forest, but was based in north Brooklyn before. I just tracked all the rhythm beds for my next record in Williamsburg. NY is my favourite place in the universe!
Old 5th July 2018
  #98
Gear Head
 
Wizards Machine's Avatar
 

Nice singing. My two cents: I think the 87 is a good mic for your vocal. The Redd just seems too bright. I have to say I am surprised at the strong sibilance with the Redd.
Old 5th July 2018
  #99
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carloff's Avatar
Still U87 much better, Redd has somehow cheap highs on your voice
Old 5th July 2018
  #100
Lives for gear
 

Yes, I agree the U87 is much better on this song.

I believe the REDD, however, would be also well suited for your voice in a heavier/denser mix.

Chris
Old 5th July 2018
  #101
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carloff's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Yes, I agree the U87 is much better on this song.

I believe the REDD, however, would be also well suited for your voice in a heavier/denser mix.

Chris
with more compression in the busy mixes it would make even more noticable these not so nice highs - compressed U 87 would work much better
Old 5th July 2018
  #102
Yeah bad sibilance and bad highs in general just gets even more prominent in a busy content.

If it was a u87 vs "cheap mic" we wouldn't even have this discussion we would have disgard said mic much earlier.
Old 5th July 2018
  #103
Lives for gear
 

Thanks guys for the "reality check". My limited understanding was that you could use LESS compression (in a heavier mix), and thereby have the REDD be more useful. I understand your point, if ANY additional compression was warranted.

Which would be very limiting...

Chris
Old 5th July 2018
  #104
Gear Addict
 
Spindrift's Avatar
 

U87i by a mile
Old 5th July 2018
  #105
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bitman's Avatar
I listened on a laptop as I'm at work.
I played the U87 first and was alarmed at the bottom end coming out of a laptop. Got a few lines into the 1st verse then played the Redd track.
The bottom end woof was gone and everything seemed tighter.

Get the Redd.

Sorry.
Old 6th July 2018
  #106
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DrSax's Avatar
Listened here... both great sounds and very different. I have a u87 and a REDD. Not much to compare as they are different. If I had to choose only one, I’d keep the REDD. I’ve never found it sibilant unless the source is very sibilant. The mic itself has never added any sibilance in my usage. In a dense mix, I’d pick Your REDD. In a sparse acoustic setting, on your voice, I like your u87. The REDD has more detail though.
Old 6th July 2018
  #107
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toledo3's Avatar
 

When you sing the words “boardwalk” or “boys” (just for example), the vowel sounds with the REDD have this kind of overtone... like a peak, or zinginess. A buzzy overtone almost. It’s a sound I associate with designs that have response that is very jaggy, or as a side effect of distortion, or both. Not quite an icepick to the ear, but maybe a q tip :-) It kinda makes me go “yowwww!...that’s scratching my ear”, figuratively speaking. A kind of kazoo-like overtone.

But the U87 just didn’t do that in those some places - and I was even surprised at how pronouncedly it didn’t, that it really was all artifacts from the REDD. You still hear some very nice “air” accent to the vocal with the U87, it’s just in a more pleasant and less sonically aggravating place. Very balanced, but still enhanced.

I honestly wish I did love the REDD, because I love V series preamps and related stuff like the REDD pres. It just totally misses the plot for what I think most people would expect to hear out of a mic that nods to the classics. It falls more into that “extra treble and distortion sometimes sound better to people in a cursory listening scenario ... but then grow tiresome rapidly.” They should consider a MKII, and aim for a smoother signature. Maybe put a different capsule in there.

I don’t mean it as a “diss”. I like a lot of Chandler gear. It’s obvious people DO like the way this mic sounds. Just attempting to explain what it is that sounds near...bad...to ME. It does have a very strong aggressive character that might appeal to some. I think I would feel kind of pinned in a corner by it.

Last edited by toledo3; 6th July 2018 at 05:35 AM..
Old 6th July 2018
  #108
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DrSax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
When you sing the words “boardwalk” or “boys” (just for example), the vowel sounds with the REDD have this kind of overtone... like a peak, or zinginess. A buzzy overtone almost. It’s a sound I associate with designs that have response that is very jaggy, or as a side effect of distortion, or both. Not quite an icepick to the ear, but maybe a q tip :-) It kinda makes me go “yowwww!...that’s scratching my ear”, figuratively speaking. A kind of kazoo-like overtone.

But the U87 just didn’t do that in those some places - and I was even surprised at how pronouncedly it didn’t, that it really was all artifacts from the REDD. You still hear some very nice “air” accent to the vocal with the U87, it’s just in a more pleasant and less sonically aggravating place. Very balanced, but still enhanced.

I honestly wish I did love the REDD, because I love V series preamps and related stuff like the REDD pres. It just totally misses the plot for what I think most people would expect to hear out of a mic that nods to the classics. It falls more into that “extra treble and distortion sometimes sound better to people in a cursory listening scenario ... but then grow tiresome rapidly.” They should consider a MKII, and aim for a smoother signature. Maybe put a different capsule in there.

I don’t mean it as a “diss”. I like a lot of Chandler gear. It’s obvious people DO like the way this mic sounds. Just attempting to explain what it is that sounds near...bad...to ME. It does have a very strong aggressive character that might appeal to some. I think I would feel kind of pinned in a corner by it.
Have you tried a Chandler REDD mic firsthand? “Jaggy and Distorted” are the last words I’d use to describe it. It is easily one of the smoothest sounding mics I’ve ever experienced.
Old 6th July 2018
  #109
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSax View Post
Have you tried a Chandler REDD mic firsthand? “Jaggy and Distorted” are the last words I’d use to describe it. It is easily one of the smoothest sounding mics I’ve ever experienced.
So, in order to comment on the examples posted, and give specific points... I need to use the mic in person? I’m commenting on how it sounds on the source.

How would my using the mic on something change how it sounds on *this* recording relative to a U87? That gives a very strong impression of how it would sound in tone next to other mics I like. I don’t really associate any classic LDC with that kind of top end and “natural compression” as some describe it.

I agree that using a mic in person is always the best way to evaluate, and would never argue that point. Maybe if I had it in my own hands, I’d choose some different placement... or maybe it has something to do with the gain staging of the mic, or other settings on it.

But many examples of this mic have been posted along with other mics for reference, and it really does have a strong characteristic to the sound... which no one seems to argue. No one says it’s not bright, and I think there’s some concensus on a kind of compressed quality; I think the harmonic distortion from that tickles my ear in a funny way.

Do you hear the harmonic distortion on those words, and across the part of the spectrum where the artifacts are happening in comparison to the U87?

If you hear it and like it, that’s cool. If you don’t hear it, well, maybe I’m doing a poor job of describing it. I tried.

Maybe a more favorable description would be to say it has a very modern almost preprocessed sound?
Old 6th July 2018
  #110
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carloff's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
So, in order to comment on the examples posted, and give specific points... I need to use the mic in person? I’m commenting on how it sounds on the source.

How would my using the mic on something change how it sounds on *this* recording relative to a U87? That gives a very strong impression of how it would sound in tone next to other mics I like. I don’t really associate any classic LDC with that kind of top end and “natural compression” as some describe it.

I agree that using a mic in person is always the best way to evaluate, and would never argue that point. Maybe if I had it in my own hands, I’d choose some different placement... or maybe it has something to do with the gain staging of the mic, or other settings on it.

But many examples of this mic have been posted along with other mics for reference, and it really does have a strong characteristic to the sound... which no one seems to argue. No one says it’s not bright, and I think there’s some concensus on a kind of compressed quality; I think the harmonic distortion from that tickles my ear in a funny way.

Do you hear the harmonic distortion on those words, and across the part of the spectrum where the artifacts are happening in comparison to the U87?

If you hear it and like it, that’s cool. If you don’t hear it, well, maybe I’m doing a poor job of describing it. I tried.

Maybe a more favorable description would be to say it has a very modern almost preprocessed sound?
I totally agree, the strange zing on the highs. That is what I´m describing as "kind of cheap " highs
Old 6th July 2018
  #111
Lives for gear
 

Did a session today using a v72 and a original 87.

What can I say except oh my god. Talk about in your face.
Did I say that went into a urei 1176.

Cheers
Old 6th July 2018
  #112
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roger's Avatar
 

Just cannot beat original Neumann mics!
Sounds so great here.
Shines an ugly spotlight on the Chandler for sure in this case.
Interesting the presumably cheaper cable was making at least some difference though. Cable naysayers take note!
Haha!
Old 6th July 2018
  #113
Gear Head
 
Wizards Machine's Avatar
 

I just want to know who is this "Chicken Man" that got blown up?
Old 6th July 2018
  #114
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizards Machine View Post
I just want to know who is this "Chicken Man" that got blown up?
Philip Testa - Wikipedia

Not the Kentucky Colonel, thankfully.
Old 6th July 2018
  #115
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Thanks for all the feedback so far! Very interesting to read.

This is all totally subjective, of course. My impression is that the REDD has more detail, but the 87 has that comforting, warm classic Neumann midrange vibe. It seems very much retro/mid-focused versus super modern and clean.
Obviously, either way I doubt I'll stop using the 87 any time soon: As has been pointed out, it seems like it's a pretty good match for my voice, and always yields some pretty solid results that would be usable for most arrangements.

This is all pretty specific to my voice, though. Many people might have the opposite experience with this comparison. For fairness, I lured my lady into my studio and had her talk in front of the mics. She doesn't sing, but her sibilants are obviously quite different to mine! See attached comparison.

I did some testing yesterday at Adam's suggestion with moving my freestanding GIK bass traps around, and trying different placements. I recorded a few clips singing towards the bass trap in the front right corner of my room, with three freestanding traps fanned out around me behind (often I get a little lazy and just throw the mic up, because my room is treated and the sound is pretty tight anyway, relatively). I've attached those, too. (Samurai Cop cover, from the new DMB record).
Attached Files

Seashells - 87.mp3 (620.0 KB, 786 views)

Seashells - REDD.mp3 (620.0 KB, 783 views)

Test - Samurai Cop - 87.mp3 (2.02 MB, 772 views)

Test - Samurai Cop - REDD.mp3 (2.02 MB, 797 views)

Old 6th July 2018
  #116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
Thanks for all the feedback so far! Very interesting to read.

This is all totally subjective, of course. My impression is that the REDD has more detail, but the 87 has that comforting, warm classic Neumann midrange vibe. It seems very much retro/mid-focused versus super modern and clean.
Obviously, either way I doubt I'll stop using the 87 any time soon: As has been pointed out, it seems like it's a pretty good match for my voice, and always yields some pretty solid results that would be usable for most arrangements.

This is all pretty specific to my voice, though. Many people might have the opposite experience with this comparison. For fairness, I lured my lady into my studio and had her talk in front of the mics. She doesn't sing, but her sibilants are obviously quite different to mine! See attached comparison.

I did some testing yesterday at Adam's suggestion with moving my freestanding GIK bass traps around, and trying different placements. I recorded a few clips singing towards the bass trap in the front right corner of my room, with three freestanding traps fanned out around me behind (often I get a little lazy and just throw the mic up, because my room is treated and the sound is pretty tight anyway, relatively). I've attached those, too. (Samurai Cop cover, from the new DMB record).

Warm u87 haha!!?? I think it's pretty cold compared to its tube cousin's. The red doesn't sound more detailed, Def brighter in a cheap ugly way and will be even more prominent if compressed to modern standards. A small cut around 400hz and youll get some more details out of the 87.

If you want a more buttery feel you could buy a tube mod to the u87. I heard one and it gave the 87 warmth which I personally think it lacks. I would return the Redd if I where you, a/b a few highend mics if you want a different flavor then the u87 but honestly try a tubemod and you'll get two mics in one for far less then the redd (y)

And sorry if I come off sounding harsh. I know the feeling when you really want an expensive piece be better then it actually is.
Old 6th July 2018
  #117
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roger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
Thanks for all the feedback so far! Very interesting to read.

This is all totally subjective, of course. My impression is that the REDD has more detail, but the 87 has that comforting, warm classic Neumann midrange vibe. It seems very much retro/mid-focused versus super modern and clean.
Obviously, either way I doubt I'll stop using the 87 any time soon: As has been pointed out, it seems like it's a pretty good match for my voice, and always yields some pretty solid results that would be usable for most arrangements.

This is all pretty specific to my voice, though. Many people might have the opposite experience with this comparison. For fairness, I lured my lady into my studio and had her talk in front of the mics. She doesn't sing, but her sibilants are obviously quite different to mine! See attached comparison.

I did some testing yesterday at Adam's suggestion with moving my freestanding GIK bass traps around, and trying different placements. I recorded a few clips singing towards the bass trap in the front right corner of my room, with three freestanding traps fanned out around me behind (often I get a little lazy and just throw the mic up, because my room is treated and the sound is pretty tight anyway, relatively). I've attached those, too. (Samurai Cop cover, from the new DMB record).
Uh oh.....moving bass traps didn’t change that yucky Chandler top end for some reason. Nasty!
Your tone reminds me of Ray LaMontagne btw. I dig!
Old 6th July 2018
  #118
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
Warm u87 haha!!?? I think it's pretty cold compared to its tube cousin's. The red doesn't sound more detailed, Def brighter in a cheap ugly way and will be even more prominent if compressed to modern standards. A small cut around 400hz and youll get some more details out of the 87.
Lol? Perhaps we have different definitions of warm. When I say 'warm', I mean a thick and detailed midrange. No, it does not have tube sizzle, of course. Though, personally, I like it for what it is. And you're also speaking very definitively about the character of a microphone that has two distinctly different sounding versions - vintage versus the newer Ai. Thanks for the opinion though.
Old 6th July 2018
  #119
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Funny Cat's Avatar
The new clips sound a little better...until you get to the "your mother screams and pushes you" line. Ouch! Really harsh right there on the Redd. Also the test clip of the lady talking was very sibilant.

If I were to compress and gain that up it would rip my ears off. I don't think the Redd is more detailed either. You just need to process the u87 (a little dip here, little boost there) to get that clarity to jump out at you but honestly I think it would be a disservice to process it to sound like the Redd in those clips because it has its own character which I like for this application.

One thing I will say though, on all the Redd clips your ac. guitar sounds fantastic! Better then on all the u87 clips for what it's worth. I think the bleed into the Redd is doing something really beautiful to the overall sound. Almost makes me wonder if the Redd needs a little distance from the vocalist to really do its thing?
Old 6th July 2018
  #120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
Lol? Perhaps we have different definitions of warm. When I say 'warm', I mean a thick and detailed midrange. No, it does not have tube sizzle, of course. Though, personally, I like it for what it is. And you're also speaking very definitively about the character of a microphone that has two distinctly different sounding versions - vintage versus the newer Ai. Thanks for the opinion though.
Yeah then we use the same word describing different things ha! I think the u87 sounds a bit sterile in the mids probably the lack of tube saturation and harmonic content I guess. I do like the old neumanns don't care to much about the new stuff AI, 184 etc.

You singing is great so don't get to lost in the gear fiesta. Go make some music damnit (y)
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