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Chandler REDD mic next to a vintage U87 Condenser Microphones
View Poll Results: Should I give in to gearlust?
Get the REDD!
35 Votes - 41.67%
Stick with the 87!
49 Votes - 58.33%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

Old 16th June 2018
  #61
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizards Machine View Post
Hey, thanks much. I am surprised how close the 67 and the Redd sound. What settings did you have the Redd on?
Normal mode, +20dB, 0dB output. We actually used the the 67 for the real vocal tracking on a few songs, and the 77-DX for some others - we didn't choose the REDD because of the sibilance. [Disclaimer: The REDD may be damaged/not functioning correctly]

Last edited by Kroc; 19th June 2018 at 08:48 PM..
Old 17th June 2018
  #62
Gear Nut
 
brewbacker's Avatar
 

The Redd sounds more sibilant and kind of harsh in your place compared to the studio take. Wondering what was different besides the room?
Old 17th June 2018
  #63
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XKAudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabha View Post
Great Song, singing and playing!!!
Omg wrong forum. Go home. Dont u realize its the mic not the singer. Sheesh
Old 17th June 2018
  #64
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carloff's Avatar
Redd sounded the worse, of them. I really liked RCA DX77 on your voice. 67 was good choice
Old 17th June 2018
  #65
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Funny Cat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Going against the trend and going to opine that to me the old 87 wins here. Outright. More 'rightness'. The REDD is hard. Too hard for me. Too stark. Too brash. The 87 has nothing between me and the story. I suppose it might also be perceived as less impressive. But impressive also tends to get between me and the story.


Wow! Just had a listen and you are absolutely right Karloff! It's not even close. the 87 is head and shoulders above the Redd on your voice (OP) and guitar in your room. The Redd has a weird honk/resonance and is extremely sibilant on the first recordings you posted (didn't listen to the others yet).

The 87 sounds like a record. It's "right" like Karloff said. I'm not even slightly impressed by the Redd on your voice. It just doesn't fit to my ears. I do love the clips of the Redd I've heard on drums that @Paul_G posted in that other massive Redd thread but in this particular case, I'd definitely stick with the 87.




@Kroc Great voice by the way. You've got really great control and you know exactly when to use the falsetto for emotional impact. I'd say you sing better than 90% of the "famous" guys out there right now doing this kind of stuff. Good job!



[Late ADD] I'm reading some of the other comments and it seems unanimous. The Redd just isn't the right mic for your voice. I haven't listened to the studio recordings but many are saying it's harsh, just like what I'm hearing in the recording your room.
Old 17th June 2018
  #66
Gear Head
 
Stagecraft's Avatar
Options

I have used the REDD for about 3 months now with great results. I would recommend anyone who is going to hire the mic for a session or to audition for purchase to ask Adam at Chandler to send the setting sheet. It helped me get around till I got the hang of it.
Old 18th June 2018
  #67
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewbacker View Post
The Redd sounds more sibilant and kind of harsh in your place compared to the studio take. Wondering what was different besides the room?
Interesting that you noticed that too - I had thought that myself when I did it. The Brooklyn studio version was done in their vocal booth, which is a small maybe 6'x8' room with maybe a 7' ceiling, heaps of absorption and a window to the control room on one side. My room is about 15.3' x 11', with about 10.8' ceilings. It is also treated, but as more of a balanced mixing/recording space (with more diffusion, not as much absorption). I would have expected that the vocals in my space would sound a bit better/less congested. I think the settings would have been exactly the same, and the preamp is internal, so there are no variables with that.
Kind of weird. Unless one of the tubes could be going bad or something? It sounds thinner than I remember it sounding last time I recorded in my room also (see the clips on page #1 ). [My REDD is likely not working correctly]

Quote:
Originally Posted by carloff View Post
Redd sounded the worse, of them. I really liked RCA DX77 on your voice. 67 was good choice
Thanks Carloff! Appreciate the feedback.
The session engineer was digging the 77 too, and I have a bit of a crush on it now. Might need one of my own!
We might have used it for most of the vocals, but I haven't used ribbons a lot, so I felt a bit 'safer' using a condenser for songs where I didn't necessarily want to commit to a retro vibe with a rolled-off top end. But we totally could have.
I'm definitely happy with the 67 material also. It's super balanced, clear and warm. We thought it was thicker than the 47, which surprised me.

On a side note: I just got word back from the engineer - all the other mics aside from the REDD were through a Neve 1272 with no compression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
Wow! Just had a listen and you are absolutely right Karloff! It's not even close. the 87 is head and shoulders above the Redd on your voice (OP) and guitar in your room. The Redd has a weird honk/resonance and is extremely sibilant on the first recordings you posted (didn't listen to the others yet).

The 87 sounds like a record. It's "right" like Karloff said. I'm not even slightly impressed by the Redd on your voice. It just doesn't fit to my ears. I do love the clips of the Redd I've heard on drums that @Paul_G posted in that other massive Redd thread but in this particular case, I'd definitely stick with the 87.




@Kroc Great voice by the way. You've got really great control and you know exactly when to use the falsetto for emotional impact. I'd say you sing better than 90% of the "famous" guys out there right now doing this kind of stuff. Good job!



[Late ADD] I'm reading some of the other comments and it seems unanimous. The Redd just isn't the right mic for your voice. I haven't listened to the studio recordings but many are saying it's harsh, just like what I'm hearing in the recording your room.
Thanks so much, Funny Cat! That's so nice of you to say about my voice. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
And I appreciate the feedback, too.
I think a 77-DX could actually be just the ticket instead for that kind of thing.

[Removed my criticisms of the REDD, as it likely isn't operating correctly.]

Peace!

Last edited by Kroc; 19th June 2018 at 08:52 PM.. Reason: REDD is likely not operating correctly.
Old 18th June 2018
  #68
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Funny Cat's Avatar
@Kroc


Before you write off the Redd, you may want to try recording about 6"-12" inches farther back than usual. I seem to remember reading many users saying it has a long reach. Try without a pop filter. May get rid of the sibilance and honkiness I'm hearing in your clip? Although the u87 just sounds really good on your voice so maybe you should spring for a good ribbon mic? Full disclosure, I've personally never used a Redd before so "grain of salt" yadda yadda.
Old 18th June 2018
  #69
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Although a U67 & U87 can be equalized "into submission", on my voice...

I could tell the REDD "audio naturale" sounded superior.

Tough call between a REDD, and a 47 FET (or Bock iFET ) on my voice. I also love 44 ribbons!

Chris
Old 18th June 2018
  #70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
Normal mode, +20dB, 0dB output. We actually used the the 67 for the real vocal tracking on a few songs, and the 77-DX for some others - we didn't choose the REDD because of the sibilance.
the u87 sounded the best on you, if that was a blind test i would have thought that was the u67 not the other way around. The redd sounded pretty awful.


My u87 vintage is brighter then my u67 i guess that is how it is in the vintage terrain, you never now what the mic's been through. From a technical stand point the u87 "should" be brighter then a u67. Maybe the u67 was modded?
Old 18th June 2018
  #71
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adam_f's Avatar
@Kroc Sibilance and thin are the antitheses of the REDD Mic's character, after listening to some of these samples, I believe you should send your REDD mic in for us to evaluate.

FWIW...When tube mics begin to lose low-end, it can be indicative of a tube issue and not the mic itself.

Aside, just pondering/outside thought here...I understand that this particular mic was a dealer demo, and that when you received it, it was missing the REDD Mic cable, and you'd substituted it with a cable you had. Without knowing how the substitute cable was wired, It's hard to tell if it had compromised the tubes or mic in some way.

Also, what's your home studio setup interface wise?

Regardless, we'll figure this out and get you happy.


I'm posting the soundcloud player REDD mic sound samples here for reference.










Last edited by adam_f; 18th June 2018 at 06:01 PM..
Old 18th June 2018
  #72
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toledo3's Avatar
 

All of the samples that have been posted by anyone who has the mic have that same sonic characteristic. I have heard one decent sounding recording, where the edge complimented the sound source...but you could still hear it. It seems somewhat heavy handed.

To me, it sounds like an MXL strapped to a tube amp. Which doesn’t mean it’s unuseful, and I don’t really even mean it as a slam. That’s just how it hits my ears.

Is that a k67 style cap (with platinum membrane as stated) feeding into the amp stages, without any circuit to handle the inherent high end peak in that capsule geometry? It sounds like it.

I can definitely imagine a scenario where people a/b with classic mics, and in the moment, the increased treble and harmonic distortion make you think “oh this seems better”. I think that’s kind of a common thing when people a/b in the moment, and especially without context of putting a track into a recording where it has to live alongside other instruments.

Maybe it IS for some scenarios. For me, it’s something I listen for and beware of.

Something like a good C12 or 251 can get that sheen without the peaky sounding bit.

Maybe all the samples I’ve heard have used the wrong cable though.

Maybe my ears are clogged or I just have bad taste. It’s all a matter of opinion, I don’t mean any of this harshly.
Old 18th June 2018
  #73
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toledo3's Avatar
 

The ribbons are cool, but as you say Kroc, it’s nice to have that air on tap. IMO, one of those things that ends up being appropriate maybe 1 out of 10 times if that.
Old 18th June 2018
  #74
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
the u87 sounded the best on you, if that was a blind test i would have thought that was the u67 not the other way around. The redd sounded pretty awful.

My u87 vintage is brighter then my u67 i guess that is how it is in the vintage terrain, you never now what the mic's been through. From a technical stand point the u87 "should" be brighter then a u67. Maybe the u67 was modded?
Hey, thanks for the feedback. Interesting comments - I think I have a pretty dark 87. Like, before I found the MA5 it was a little too murky to cut through with anything dense. I guess every one sounds a little different.
That's cool that you liked it best, too! I certainly agree that it holds its own, which is cool, seeing some of those other mics are worth 4-5 times as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam_f View Post
@Kroc Sibilance and thin are the antitheses of the REDD Mic's character, after listening to some of these samples, I believe you should send your REDD mic in for us to evaluate.

FWIW...When tube mics begin to lose low-end, it can be indicative of a tube issue and not the mic itself.

Aside, just pondering/outside thought here...I understand that this particular mic was a dealer demo, and that when you received it, it was missing the REDD Mic cable, and you'd substituted it with a cable you had. Without knowing how the substitute cable was wired, It's hard to tell if it had compromised the tubes or mic in some way.

Also, what's your home studio setup interface wise?

Regardless, we'll figure this out and get you happy.
Hey Adam! Thanks for weighing in here. I appreciate your help! It definitely seems like something odd could be going on. Like, I'm kind of sibilant to start with, but as you say, from the way most people describe this mic, it's odd that it's noticeably, substantially more sibilant than all the other mics I put it against.

There seems to be a lot of overbearing prickliness going on up at around 8.8kHz. I think it seems to have become more prominent recently, so it could certainly be a tube issue.

The cable I used initially was the one that came with my Avantone BV-12. I've used it a bunch of times with that mic before. Not sure why that would be an issue?

I'm running the REDD directly into one of the line inputs on my Apollo 8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
The ribbons are cool, but as you say Kroc, it’s nice to have that air on tap. IMO, one of those things that ends up being appropriate maybe 1 out of 10 times if that.
That's what I would have thought, but after I used the 77 I could totally see myself using it for more than just the token 'Oldschool vibe' track. See attached clip. For EQ, I ran it through my Warm Pultec clone with -3dB at 400Hz, +2dB at 16kHz, and I'm putting it through the UAD Studer A800 plugin, but other than that it has no EQ except for a high pass filter at 100Hz.


Cheers,
Dan
Attached Files

77DX Sample 2.mp3 (1.57 MB, 1674 views)

Old 18th June 2018
  #75
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+1 What Adam is saying.

IMHO it's one of the best vocal microphones when you want a "fuller" vocal tone
(my voice is a little thin in 2nd tenor), and the REDD didn't amplify any of my bright voiced sibilance. In my fuller baritone, however, it seemed that over a foot away would help it from sounding TOO thick. (I like that "issue" though!)

I'm convinced that something like the tube and/or the cable isn't working properly. Way outside possibility IMHO, the microphone itself.

Chris
Old 18th June 2018
  #76
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
+1 What Adam is saying.

IMHO it's one of the best vocal microphones when you want a "fuller" vocal tone
(my voice is a little thin in 2nd tenor), and the REDD didn't amplify any of my bright voiced sibilance. In my fuller baritone, however, it seemed that over a foot away would help it from sounding TOO thick. (I like that "issue" though!)

I'm convinced that something like the tube and/or the cable isn't working properly. Way outside possibility IMHO, the microphone itself.

Chris
Hey Chris,

Thanks for the input. Interesting! It sounds like you're describing the opposite characteristics of my mic. Definitely never had it sound too thick. In fact, I've never even used the low end contour, and it was too thin and harsh to use on acoustic guitar at all, even at several feet away. So I'm hoping you're right, and that I can get it fixed! I'll keep everyone here posted, and put up some new clips afterwards if I have this resolved.
Old 18th June 2018
  #77
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Stating the obvious, now that I listened to all the vocal clips...

Yes Kroc, you do have a tremendous voice!

One way to go...

U87 for ballads.

REDD for uptempo/heavier mixes.
(and stay farther way from the mic, like the later takes)

Guessing the 44 would be a useful addition, as you could EQ the top for air.
(not enough experience with a 44 here to be definitive-other members?)

FWIW as my voice is brighter than yours, you probably wouldn't need to EQ
the top at all!

Chris
Old 19th June 2018
  #78
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Stating the obvious, now that I listened to all the vocal clips...

Yes Kroc, you do have a tremendous voice!

One way to go...

U87 for ballads.

REDD for uptempo/heavier mixes.
(and stay farther way from the mic, like the later takes)

Guessing the 44 would be a useful addition, as you could EQ the top for air.
(not enough experience with a 44 here to be definitive-other members?)

FWIW as my voice is brighter than yours, you probably wouldn't need to EQ
the top at all!

Chris
Thanks Chris!!! That's kind of you to say!! :D
I appreciate the suggestions, too.

Chandler are going to look the mic over and see if there's something wrong with it. So we'll see! There still might be hope for it yet. But it definitely seems like it would work well in drive mode for an 'SM7b on steroids' kind of thing.

The 87 is definitely a solid all-rounder - mine is darker, so definitely works well for ballads where I don't need heaps of 'cut'.

For sure, a ribbon would be rad. But I'm I thinking 77-DX as I mentioned above. It's a little less neutral, but I dig the midrange clarity.

Cheers,
Dan
Old 19th June 2018
  #79
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

That old 87 is only a sweet eq box away from plenty of quality cut at any one time.....just saying.
Old 19th June 2018
  #80
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adam_f's Avatar
Incorrect cable used on REDD Microphone

NOTICE: The recordings of the REDD Microphone vs U87, as posted here were made using a 7-pin cable from a different microphone manufacturer.

At this time, upon review of the wiring, we believe both the microphone itself and its resultant performance were compromised from that point forward, and on all the subsequent recordings.


TO FUTURE USERS: Please only use the factory supplied REDD Microphone cable or risk damage to your microphone.

Last edited by adam_f; 20th June 2018 at 09:09 PM..
Old 19th June 2018
  #81
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam_f View Post
NOTICE: The recordings of the REDD Microphone vs U87, as posted here were made using a 7-pin cable from a different microphone manufacturer. At this time,upon review of the wiring, we believe both the microphone itself and its resultant performance were compromised from that point forward, and on all on the recordings. As a result, all recordings from this microphone are not indicative of the sound of a working REDD Microphone. TO FUTURE USERS: Please only use the factory supplied REDD Microphone cable or risk damage to your microphone.
I have been speaking with Adam, and will be sending my mic to them so they can have a look at it and figure out what went wrong. Out of respect to them, and to give their microphone fair representation, I have taken down the latest clips.

When the REDD arrived (it was a demo unit), the original 7-pin cable was missing. I used the 7-pin from my Avantone BV-12, thinking they were basically interchangeable like XLRs, or anything else with the same plug/pin count. We think that the cable might have damaged components in the mic because it may have been wired differently. Cautionary tale to any other tube mic users!

Chandler rock, and have been super helpful with all of this. I'm really looking forward to hearing the mic the way it was meant to sound. I will post clips once I get it back.

Last edited by Kroc; 19th June 2018 at 09:17 PM..
Old 19th June 2018
  #82
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Are the pins wired differently on the cables or not.

If not, then it shouldn’t make a difference.

.

Hope that it was screwed up, I guess!
Old 20th June 2018
  #83
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Sure thang Kroc!

Another ribbon to consider BTW is the AEA N22.
Chris
Old 20th June 2018
  #84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
I have been speaking with Adam, and will be sending my mic to them so they can have a look at it and figure out what went wrong. Out of respect to them, and to give their microphone fair representation, I have taken down the latest clips.

When the REDD arrived (it was a demo unit), the original 7-pin cable was missing. I used the 7-pin from my Avantone BV-12, thinking they were basically interchangeable like XLRs, or anything else with the same plug/pin count. We think that the cable might have damaged components in the mic because it may have been wired differently. Cautionary tale to any other tube mic users!

Chandler rock, and have been super helpful with all of this. I'm really looking forward to hearing the mic the way it was meant to sound. I will post clips once I get it back.
Interchanging tube cables like that is a big-no-no in my world. But glad you are getting it worked out.
Old 20th June 2018
  #85
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Is it ever going to be unequivocally stated whether or not the cables are wired differently?

Or is it just going to be used as reason for it to sound exactly like it does in all other clips anyone ever posts.

I mean come on.

Does it sound like a damaged mic? Really?

Ok, I’ve made my point, not trying to beat a dead horse. But I AM curious about the *reality* of the cable scenario, not the hype.

EDIT: I would actually be kind of pissed if a manufacturer made me ship them a mic IF the pins are wired the same on the cable, just in some attempt to save face on an Internet forum about something there is really no foul with - the sound of the mic. It’s a matter of taste. I would want them to just confirm that or not before having to deal with that whole rigamorole. It’s audio *engineering* not audio hocus pocus.

Last edited by toledo3; 21st June 2018 at 12:00 AM.. Reason: Clarity
Old 20th June 2018
  #86
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Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Sure thang Kroc!

Another ribbon to consider BTW is the AEA N22.
Chris
Cool!! Thanks Chris. I'll check it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
Interchanging tube cables like that is a big-no-no in my world. But glad you are getting it worked out.
I feel pretty dumb!!!
I hope it hasn't wreaked too much havoc on the components. This is something I feel like I should have known about. That said, it's pretty worrying that you can seriously damage a mic this valuable by substituting a cosmetically identical cable that fits exactly the same plug.
Old 20th June 2018
  #87
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
That said, it's pretty worrying that you can seriously damage a mic this valuable by substituting a cosmetically identical cable that fits exactly the same plug.
Not sure that sounds like reality to me. More like, you might get a more or less noticeable difference in sound. Noticeable here meaning very slight in all likelyhood. The cable doing actual damage to the mic would be very odd.
Old 20th June 2018
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
I feel pretty dumb!!!
I hope it hasn't wreaked too much havoc on the components. This is something I feel like I should have known about. That said, it's pretty worrying that you can seriously damage a mic this valuable by substituting a cosmetically identical cable that fits exactly the same plug.
Traveling today...don’t fret too much, stuff happens, we’ll get it sorted out when it returns.
Old 27th June 2018
  #89
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Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
Ok, I’ve made my point, not trying to beat a dead horse. But I AM curious about the *reality* of the cable scenario, not the hype.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
I'm convinced that something like the tube and/or the cable isn't working properly. Way outside possibility IMHO, the microphone itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carloff View Post
Redd sounded the worse, of them.
Update on the REDD:
I shipped Chandler the mic last week (Adam has been extremely helpful!) - the microphone itself is mechanically fine, but there was something wrong with the power supply unit. They tried my REDD with other PSUs (and other mics with my PSU), and noticed that the sound was significantly different with my power supply. Which may have been because of the cable, or as an ex-demo mic, perhaps it had been damaged by someone else. Either way, they are sending the mic back with new tubes and a new power supply, and have done all this with a one day turnaround time. I am very impressed!

I'm very relieved to know I didn't fry a $4000 microphone with a crappy cable, but also happy to hear that there was indeed something wrong. Looking forward to trying the REDD out properly, and hearing it in all its glory! I'll post samples when I get it back, hopefully later this week/early next.

Cheers.
Dan
Old 28th June 2018
  #90
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Chris
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