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Chandler REDD mic next to a vintage U87 Condenser Microphones
View Poll Results: Should I give in to gearlust?
Get the REDD!
35 Votes - 41.67%
Stick with the 87!
49 Votes - 58.33%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

Old 31st August 2018
  #331
Lives for gear
 

Kroc, you're much better at recording yourself singing, than I am. I'm trying to sound less "phoned in". Any hints/tips?
Thanks, Chris
Old 31st August 2018
  #332
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Hey Dan
fyi I've had a couple re issue 67's working non stop for a few months.
Ive tried a bunch of good nos tubes, various amperex,valvo, tele grey plates, etc.nos psu,cables
ended up sticking w the stuff it came with although I'm liking the s2 jumper removed overall.they sound better than the last vintage 67 I had[and subsequently sold to a friend]
Hey RoundBadge!

That's super cool to hear!! If you don't mind my asking, how was the sound of the mic affected by the various component swaps?

I'm just curious though - this is no doubt the best mic I've ever had the pleasure of using, so I don't want to mess with it.

Do you have any favourite preamps/other gear that you pair it with?

Man, two reissues must basically be like God Mode for live singer-songwriter recording in double figure-8 (I think this mic is just about my favourite acoustic guitar sound too) The midrange is just so perfectly balanced/natural, and detailed without being harsh. It sounds like butter. It's nice to not have to scan for 'hard spots' with an EQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael cleary View Post
great song, beautiful recording. Thanks for posting! mc
Hey thank you Michael!! My pleasure. Thanks for listening. (I love that song too. Ryan Adams is a great writer. Good one for gear tests too, because it involves different vocal registers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Kroc, you're much better at recording yourself singing, than I am. I'm trying to sound less "phoned in". Any hints/tips?
Thanks, Chris
Hey Chris,
Thank you! This is something I've been trying to work on for years, and I think about it a lot. Because recording vocals is unnatural, confronting, and often difficult! (I still think I sound better live, and feel more confident on stage)
It takes a while to figure out what works for you so that you feel inspired and confident instead of self-conscious. It's about 10% vocal technique/gear and 90% psychology.

My two cents: Firstly, on the gear end... It is certainly possible to make great music with less than ideal equipment (see Bon Iver, Sufjan Stevens or Bruce Springsteen's Nebraska - or any 'One 57 And The Truth' kind of record). That said, especially if you don't have a producer to help guide you through takes, there is also a lot of value in building a vocal chain that you love that makes you feel like the best singer in the world!

If you sound natural to yourself in your cans/like how you hear yourself in the room, you're less likely to modulate your voice and change your technique to compensate for the frequency response of the microphone. For example, if you're singing into a very dark mic, you might not sound clear to yourself, so you might sing more nasally. Or if you have a very bright mic, you might undersing because the consonants sound too hard. This is kind of weird to explain, but ideally you want a mic that rewards you for correct vocal placement, while also being forgiving and flattering.

But, conversely, you can be singing through a perfectly matched, $20k vocal chain and still do rubbish takes - positivity/confidence, comfort, and your overall mindset are SUPER important, so you don't overthink. Overthinking kills the magic! I was doing vocal takes for a song two months ago in a different studio (with great gear), and the people I was working with wanted me to really change up my delivery (with a song I'd been singing the same way for five years). Whether they were right or not, I wound up focusing more on trying to alter my vibrato (which is just a natural part of my vocal tone) than actually giving a performance. It sounded like total garbage!

To summarize: The stuff I'm happiest with happens when I'm not thinking as much about what I'm doing.

Tips:
- Experiment!
- Try recording with one side of your headphones off, so you can hear your voice in the room.
- Work on getting your headphone mix right! Too loud, and you'll undersing/get self-conscious. Too quiet, and you might oversing. Until you learn to 'fly by your instruments' by feeling your vocal placement through bone induction instead of what you're actually hearing.
- Practice, practice, practice

I could rant about this stuff for days.

Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Dan
Old 31st August 2018
  #333
Lives for gear
 

Thanks so much Dan (Kroc), for the great advice!
Chris
Old 31st August 2018
  #334
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post

Do you have any favourite preamps/other gear that you pair it with?

Man, two reissues must basically be like God Mode for live singer-songwriter recording in double figure-8 (I think this mic is just about my favourite acoustic guitar sound too) The midrange is just so perfectly balanced/natural, and detailed without being harsh. It sounds like butter. It's nice to not have to scan for 'hard spots' with an EQ.

the tele grey plate 86 had nice mids but lacked overall air.
amperex tube gooey and rounded.the rest variations of the same theme.the stock tube won.
pre amps-coil,neve flickinger redd capi etc.
also the redd mic is really nice on ac gtrs.
also you should try an akg c12a on acoustic guitars.sweet,sits beautifully w other stuff.I have a great pair.some of my fav mics.
Old 31st August 2018
  #335
Lives for gear
 

Do you guys generally like the Neve 1073 style sound, for the U87 and U67?

Sorry if i'm not remembering, if it was used on past clips (in this thread).
Thanks, Chris
Old 1st September 2018
  #336
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Do you guys generally like the Neve 1073 style sound, for the U87 and U67?

Sorry if i'm not remembering, if it was used on past clips (in this thread).
Thanks, Chris
sure Neve punchy thick thing is fine.
so is api,redd coil etc
always ymmv depends on the source
Old 1st September 2018
  #337
Admittedly this is the REDD vs a U87ai, not a vintage U87, but it still gives everyone an idea how it sounds. I released this video last year and posted it on other threads, but it seems this may add to the convo here too.

Old 1st September 2018
  #338
Lives for gear
 

Sounds great-as always!
Chris
Old 1st September 2018
  #339
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowV View Post
Admittedly this is the REDD vs a U87ai, not a vintage U87, but it still gives everyone an idea how it sounds. I released this video last year and posted it on other threads, but it seems this may add to the convo here too.

Hey TheShadowV! Thanks for commenting. I had actually watched your video before I got the REDD while I was doing my research on it. Great vocals.

Summary of this thread so far: I did keep the REDD. The more I used it, the more I came to realise that it just doesn't suit my voice or genre at all - much too thin and strident (a little more rounded at +33dB, but still not quite right). Just my experience. They're a great company, and clearly this mic works well for many other people!
Then I got my hands on a 2018 U67 Reissue last week, and am now extremely satisfied as it has exactly the sound I was after, as it's clearer and more detailed than the 87, but thicker and more buttery than the REDD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Do you guys generally like the Neve 1073 style sound, for the U87 and U67?

Sorry if i'm not remembering, if it was used on past clips (in this thread).
Thanks, Chris
That's a classic pairing that has been used on many records. To give you some idea, the Avedis MA5 isn't a Neve clone, per say, but it is certainly very 'Neve-ish' and covers the same ground - that's what I've used for most of the U87 and all the U67 clips I've posted. So, for sure, I love that pairing.

But as RoundBadge said, it depends on the source. I went for the MA5 because my 87 is dark/soft/fluffy and I wanted something more detailed to balance it out. If you had a bright 87Ai and/or a really bright voice, it might be better served by something darker and thicker, like an LA610. All a process of experimentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
the tele grey plate 86 had nice mids but lacked overall air.
amperex tube gooey and rounded.the rest variations of the same theme.the stock tube won.
pre amps-coil,neve flickinger redd capi etc.
also the redd mic is really nice on ac gtrs.
also you should try an akg c12a on acoustic guitars.sweet,sits beautifully w other stuff.I have a great pair.some of my fav mics.
Interesting! Thank you. I won't even bother trying other tubes, in that case. I feel like we're sometimes stuck in 1951, where all new tubes suck, and all new Neumanns are automatically more terrible than their vintage counterparts. Which may be true in some instances, but definitely not as a rule.
I'll have to check out a C12A next time I'm in a studio that has one.

To your previous post, I agree - this reissue sounds better than the vintage one I used two months back also. That particular vintage mic was perhaps a little thinner and brighter in the mids. Not in a harsh way, it still sounded great (some might think better if they listened to it right before the reissue because of the extra brightness) - but I'd still want to EQ the midrange to make the sound a little more comfortable.

Some mics seem to have a lot of push around 2-5kHz - maybe that extra clarity suits other voices, but I find it makes my vocals sound smaller, more 'telephony', and less natural. Whereas, this mic does an excellent job of smoothing that area while still sounding very detailed and airy. It has a very round, real, listenable vibe - I imagine you'd get much less ear fatigue working with this over a long period of time. I have nothing to complain about with it. Perhaps there are pristine vintage 67s out there that have some kind of special extra mojo, but they're probably 2-3 times the price, and much less reliable tools to keep in a studio.

Totally nitpicking, because everything this thing captures sounds just about perfect to me, however - the only other thing I'm wondering is whether I'm shortchanging it by putting it through my blackface Apollo 8 line input ADC.

I may have to start a separate "U67 Reissue Appreciation Thread" to give myself a more appropriate place to rave, so I don't sound like I'm advertising for Neumann/Sennheiser, lol.
However, already, in the few days I've had it, I've recorded new takes for a few of my album's tracks, and they take the quality of the whole production to a whole other level. It has helped my workflow tremendously also, because I barely ever want or need to process it at all - it sounds like a record from the get go. Like, no reductive EQ except for an occasional narrow 1dB dip around 700Hz in the context of a dense, full-band mix to help give it a little extra clarity. The less I have to digitally distort a track when mixing, the better.

Cheers,
Dan
Old 1st September 2018
  #340
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
2-5k is fairly normal eq fix spot for a lot of vocalists.
if you don’t already have it buy the oeksound soothe plug in.
Trust me just buy it.
actually just buy both their plugs(soothe,spiff).
great general fixing tool but esp good vocal tools
Old 2nd September 2018
  #341
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
2-5k is fairly normal eq fix spot for a lot of vocalists.
if you don’t already have it buy the oeksound soothe plug in.
Trust me just buy it.
actually just buy both their plugs(soothe,spiff).
great general fixing tool but esp good vocal tools
I do not have that, and hadn't heard of it! Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check it out. Sounds like a great tool. Though this 67 seems to be solving that issue anyway for my own vocals. With me it's usually 2.7 or 3.9 - but again, it's only a noticeable issue if I'm using the wrong mic.

Cheers,
Dan
Old 3rd September 2018
  #342
Thanks Kroc. I appreciate the compliment. I didn’t end up keeping the REDD myself. It wasn’t quite right for my voice or my wife’s. The guys at Chandler were super nice, as they arranged a demo for me. I was talking about a particular high end microphone on another forum and people kept bringing up the REDD. So Chandler reached out and made the demo happen. I ended buying the other microphone instead, a FleA 49 which is probably my favorite mic on my voice.

The U67 reissue is a microphone I’m pining for right now for my wife’s voice. I have a few 67ish mics, which sound great on her and now I’m itching to hear her in the reissue. That sounds like a pretty cool step for you.

The U87 and U67 through a Neve preamp is a very popular combo. Personally, I like the U87 through a good tube preamp. I use my Demeter VTMP 2B with my U87, albeit it’s an AI and a little more open than the original. It mellows the top end just a bit. I love my Dan Alexander (re-racked Neve 1073) with my FleA49 and my BLUE Bottle Rocket Stage II with various caps. It’s got this low and low mid girth of a tube preamp, but is open up top. That’s what makes the 1073 preamps so popular.

I’d love to hear a similar shootout to the one you posted at the beginning of this thread with your vintage U87 and your U67 reissue.
Old 3rd September 2018
  #343
Gear Head
 
Wizards Machine's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post

Hey Chris,
Thank you! This is something I've been trying to work on for years, and I think about it a lot. Because recording vocals is unnatural, confronting, and often difficult! (I still think I sound better live, and feel more confident on stage)
It takes a while to figure out what works for you so that you feel inspired and confident instead of self-conscious. It's about 10% vocal technique/gear and 90% psychology.

My two cents: Firstly, on the gear end... It is certainly possible to make great music with less than ideal equipment (see Bon Iver, Sufjan Stevens or Bruce Springsteen's Nebraska - or any 'One 57 And The Truth' kind of record). That said, especially if you don't have a producer to help guide you through takes, there is also a lot of value in building a vocal chain that you love that makes you feel like the best singer in the world!

If you sound natural to yourself in your cans/like how you hear yourself in the room, you're less likely to modulate your voice and change your technique to compensate for the frequency response of the microphone. For example, if you're singing into a very dark mic, you might not sound clear to yourself, so you might sing more nasally. Or if you have a very bright mic, you might undersing because the consonants sound too hard. This is kind of weird to explain, but ideally you want a mic that rewards you for correct vocal placement, while also being forgiving and flattering.

But, conversely, you can be singing through a perfectly matched, $20k vocal chain and still do rubbish takes - positivity/confidence, comfort, and your overall mindset are SUPER important, so you don't overthink. Overthinking kills the magic! I was doing vocal takes for a song two months ago in a different studio (with great gear), and the people I was working with wanted me to really change up my delivery (with a song I'd been singing the same way for five years). Whether they were right or not, I wound up focusing more on trying to alter my vibrato (which is just a natural part of my vocal tone) than actually giving a performance. It sounded like total garbage!

To summarize: The stuff I'm happiest with happens when I'm not thinking as much about what I'm doing.

Tips:
- Experiment!
- Try recording with one side of your headphones off, so you can hear your voice in the room.
- Work on getting your headphone mix right! Too loud, and you'll undersing/get self-conscious. Too quiet, and you might oversing. Until you learn to 'fly by your instruments' by feeling your vocal placement through bone induction instead of what you're actually hearing.
- Practice, practice, practice

I could rant about this stuff for days.

Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Dan

Bravo. After recording vocals (many times painfully and tediously) for 40 years, (Gulp)... this is the first time I've seen a perfectly concise primer on the psychology/methodology of diffusing "red light" syndrome. Nice, bro.

Last edited by Wizards Machine; 3rd September 2018 at 03:30 PM.. Reason: Horrible spelling
Old 3rd September 2018
  #344
Lives for gear
 

Yes, we're very fortunate to have Kroc and ShadowV contribute here...
Chris
Old 4th September 2018
  #345
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowV View Post
Thanks Kroc. I appreciate the compliment. I didn’t end up keeping the REDD myself. It wasn’t quite right for my voice or my wife’s. The guys at Chandler were super nice, as they arranged a demo for me. I was talking about a particular high end microphone on another forum and people kept bringing up the REDD. So Chandler reached out and made the demo happen. I ended buying the other microphone instead, a FleA 49 which is probably my favorite mic on my voice.

The U67 reissue is a microphone I’m pining for right now for my wife’s voice. I have a few 67ish mics, which sound great on her and now I’m itching to hear her in the reissue. That sounds like a pretty cool step for you.

The U87 and U67 through a Neve preamp is a very popular combo. Personally, I like the U87 through a good tube preamp. I use my Demeter VTMP 2B with my U87, albeit it’s an AI and a little more open than the original. It mellows the top end just a bit. I love my Dan Alexander (re-racked Neve 1073) with my FleA49 and my BLUE Bottle Rocket Stage II with various caps. It’s got this low and low mid girth of a tube preamp, but is open up top. That’s what makes the 1073 preamps so popular.

I’d love to hear a similar shootout to the one you posted at the beginning of this thread with your vintage U87 and your U67 reissue.
Interesting to hear the REDD didn't work out for you either. I was in the same boat - I started a thread to get suggestions for mics that might suit my voice, and it kept on coming up, so I coordinated a demo with them. They are for sure a super nice company, and I wanted to like it really badly. In fact, I did like it enough to hold on to the demo unit, because it definitely sounds more detailed than anything I had prior to that, and I thought it'd just take some getting used to to figure out how to get the most out of it. But the more I used it, the more I found it to be thin and grating in the high end. Just not my vibe, but plenty of people seem to love it. Anyway, you live and learn.

I've heard really great things about the FLEA 49 and would love to try one eventually too. A 49-type was on my shortlist, but I went with the 67 because I figured it'd give extra draw to my studio, even if it didn't fit my voice. However, not to encourage your gearlust, but I doubt you'd regret getting the reissue. If I had a lot of spare cash, I'd get a second one. It makes everything I point it at sound like butter! The midrange on mine is perfect. Definitely a lovely mic (I'm sure you could hit up Alto Music and set up a demo).

I'd love to try a good tube pre with my Neumanns eventually - I keep seeing the DW Fearn VT1 mentioned, and was checking out some samples. And (i've been working for years to build my 'perfect' vocal chain) I also know I could sell the REDD and invest in better AD converters than my Apollo, or put the money towards a UA reissue LA2A or a high-end 1176 clone. But I love the sound I'm getting with my 67 > MA5 chain so much that I'm not sure how much any of that would legitimately 'improve' things by any significant amount. I find it very easy to get sucked into infinite tweaking, always looking for the next upgrade.

I will definitely post a comparison of the 87 and 67! But I might wait until I can get in a second Avedis MA5 or a BAE 1073 or something, for a level playing field. It doesn't seem quite fair to either mic to put one through the MA5 and the other through a unison preamp (or ISA 430, or GAP Pre 73). The unison just wouldn't do it justice!

I actually did a quick test the other day. They're definitely in a similar ballpark (I still love my 87 to bits and will never sell it) - the 87 is really soft and fuzzy, where the 67 is more balanced and defined. This 67 feels to me like it does everything the 87 does and then adds MORE and makes it sound more polished, detailed, and huge, without losing the soft, smooth roundness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizards Machine View Post
Bravo. After recording vocals (many times painfully and tediously) for 40 years, (Gulp)... this is the first time I've seen a perfectly concise primer on the psychology/methodology of diffusing "red light" syndrome. Nice, bro.
Hey, thank you so much Wizards Machine. That's very kind of you to say.
Man, this stuff is a head trip. One time, years ago, when I was much newer to it, I had such a bad session that it totally blew my confidence as a vocalist for like a month or two. Nobody really understands that side if they don't sing. You are your instrument! Vocalists basically need to cultivate some amount of ego to avoid having panic attacks/existential crises all the time. I just hope that sharing some stuff I've found can help people not wind up in situations like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Yes, we're very fortunate to have Kroc and ShadowV contribute here...
Chris
Well thanks, Chris!! I'm happy to hear that my contributions have been helpful.

Cheers,
Dan
Old 4th September 2018
  #346
Lives for gear
 

Sure thing! BTW IMHO after listening to you and Vincent on a number of recordings...

I think the reason the REDD wasn't optimal, is because it has more "cut", and (as terrific as both your High Tenor voices are) as your voices already have excellent "cut"-There's a bit of overkill on that factor. On a really Hard Rock song, it could be cool though!
Chris
Old 4th September 2018
  #347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
Hey Chris,
Thank you! This is something I've been trying to work on for years, and I think about it a lot. Because recording vocals is unnatural, confronting, and often difficult! (I still think I sound better live, and feel more confident on stage)
It takes a while to figure out what works for you so that you feel inspired and confident instead of self-conscious. It's about 10% vocal technique/gear and 90% psychology.

My two cents: Firstly, on the gear end... It is certainly possible to make great music with less than ideal equipment (see Bon Iver, Sufjan Stevens or Bruce Springsteen's Nebraska - or any 'One 57 And The Truth' kind of record). That said, especially if you don't have a producer to help guide you through takes, there is also a lot of value in building a vocal chain that you love that makes you feel like the best singer in the world!

If you sound natural to yourself in your cans/like how you hear yourself in the room, you're less likely to modulate your voice and change your technique to compensate for the frequency response of the microphone. For example, if you're singing into a very dark mic, you might not sound clear to yourself, so you might sing more nasally. Or if you have a very bright mic, you might undersing because the consonants sound too hard. This is kind of weird to explain, but ideally you want a mic that rewards you for correct vocal placement, while also being forgiving and flattering.

But, conversely, you can be singing through a perfectly matched, $20k vocal chain and still do rubbish takes - positivity/confidence, comfort, and your overall mindset are SUPER important, so you don't overthink. Overthinking kills the magic! I was doing vocal takes for a song two months ago in a different studio (with great gear), and the people I was working with wanted me to really change up my delivery (with a song I'd been singing the same way for five years). Whether they were right or not, I wound up focusing more on trying to alter my vibrato (which is just a natural part of my vocal tone) than actually giving a performance. It sounded like total garbage!

To summarize: The stuff I'm happiest with happens when I'm not thinking as much about what I'm doing.

Tips:
- Experiment!
- Try recording with one side of your headphones off, so you can hear your voice in the room.
- Work on getting your headphone mix right! Too loud, and you'll undersing/get self-conscious. Too quiet, and you might oversing. Until you learn to 'fly by your instruments' by feeling your vocal placement through bone induction instead of what you're actually hearing.
- Practice, practice, practice

I could rant about this stuff for days.

Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Dan
This is really important. Being able to really hear yourself in such a way that you relax and can give your best performance. I usually spend a few minutes with artists when they are at my studio making sure they are comfortable with the headphone mix so they don’t think about anything accept performing the piece we’re recording. I know I like a very loud mix so I can hear myself and the track while letting it rip. It can be difficult while singing at nearly 120 dB to properly hear the mix in the cans, so I need it loud. I also need to hear myself so I don’t oversing. There will be no mixing after I track until I rest my ears a bit. Lol. I think having a good signal chain helps, as people hear a “finished” sound in the cans.

Atmosphere is another thing that can help. Dim the lights, light a candle, if that’s your thing. Create a space where people can relax and let the music flow.

Cool point Dan.

chessparov2, thanks for the compliment. I’m just here to learn like everyone else, but if sharing my experiences so far helps others then that makes me happy.
Old 4th September 2018
  #348
Lives for gear
 

Thanks Vincent. My issue is that I get distracted, when staring at the computer, and not near enough focus on performing! When I have time, am planning to experiment with getting everything set up then... Taking a long break, then returning to record. Again, both your and Kroc's contributions have already helped me. Chris
Old 7th September 2018
  #349
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
check this sh*t
Redd mic in action

Old 8th September 2018
  #350
Lives for gear
 
DrSax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
check this sh*t
Redd mic in action

Sounds killer
Old 9th September 2018
  #351
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Sure thing! BTW IMHO after listening to you and Vincent on a number of recordings...

I think the reason the REDD wasn't optimal, is because it has more "cut", and (as terrific as both your High Tenor voices are) as your voices already have excellent "cut"-There's a bit of overkill on that factor. On a really Hard Rock song, it could be cool though!
Chris
Haha, thank you Chris. And yes, I agree, and think that it likely spot on. I believe 'Singer's Formant' is the technical term for that - the stuff you get through vocal training that helps you naturally cut through a dense arrangement and project without hurting your voice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Thanks Vincent. My issue is that I get distracted, when staring at the computer, and not near enough focus on performing! When I have time, am planning to experiment with getting everything set up then... Taking a long break, then returning to record. Again, both your and Kroc's contributions have already helped me. Chris
Totally! I get distracted by the engineering side too. That's one of the challenges, with finding a workflow where you can think as little about that as possible. Getting stuff set up ahead of time certainly helps.
Actually, I've also been finding that it helps a lot to just have my wife (or anyone, I suppose) sitting in the room listening. For whatever reason, I think I'm way less prone to overthinking if I have some sort of audience to perform to. I do music because I want to move people. So I'm way less in my own head, and I just focus on evoking the emotion in the song, so it sounds more natural.
Versus when I'm doing it alone and start thinking, "Hmm, maybe I should sing this more blahblah, to really highlight what I'm singing about" and it just winds up sounding weird and overthought - where normally I'd just rely on my instincts in front of a crowd. Or I keep on stopping a take after half a verse because it "just felt weird".
Music is meant to be a triangle between you, the song, and the audience. As much as I love self-production, it's harder to fabricate that same energy when you're alone. Not at all impossible! But it takes more patience.

Cheers,
Dan
Old 10th September 2018
  #352
Lives for gear
 

Thanks Kroc. Come to think of it, maybe eventually... Singing in front of the gal-I want to marry (wherever she is), might be the best method of them all! Chris
Old 10th September 2018
  #353
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
check this sh*t
Redd mic in action

Is the distortion from the mic or other outboard involved?

I LOVE Richard Thompson, btw.




That second song is so much like a certain old Iron Butterfly song I can’t remember the name of...

Last edited by toledo3; 10th September 2018 at 04:25 PM..
Old 10th September 2018
  #354
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

The Thompson vocals still feel like edgy 'Luxury-Rode' here, but all is subjective I guess.
Old 10th September 2018
  #355
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Ah, the second tune, Bones of Gilead, reminds me of this. Different but very similar vibe on the main riff.
YouTube


Old 10th September 2018
  #356
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roger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
The Thompson vocals still feel like edgy 'Luxury-Rode' here, but all is subjective I guess.
Yep totally.
Great song, great singer though!
Old 10th September 2018
  #357
Lives for gear
 

Can't get the Brauner Phanthera sound out of my mind, after listening to some vocal clips lately.
Even with a 67 reissue/REDD/U87, I'd be tempted to process vocals, towards that kind of vibe.

Will be listening to the Thompson vocals soon...
Chris
Old 13th September 2018
  #358
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
check this sh*t
Redd mic in action
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
The Thompson vocals still feel like edgy 'Luxury-Rode' here, but all is subjective I guess.
Hey RoundBadge!! Thanks so much for sharing these clips. They sound cool.
I think this is a good example of the type of voice the REDD might be more suited to - it sounds like he has a lower, smokier kind of voice, where a little extra sparkle from the mic is welcome.

I mean no disrespect, but I tend to agree with Karloff though. I think I'm just not a big fan of the REDD's vibe on vocals, particularly in the top-end. It's a very pop kind of sound. I prefer the extra comfort of mics with a little more low-mid fullness.
Old 14th September 2018
  #359
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
Hey RoundBadge!! Thanks so much for sharing these clips. They sound cool.
I think this is a good example of the type of voice the REDD might be more suited to - it sounds like he has a lower, smokier kind of voice, where a little extra sparkle from the mic is welcome.

I mean no disrespect, but I tend to agree with Karloff though. I think I'm just not a big fan of the REDD's vibe on vocals, particularly in the top-end. It's a very pop kind of sound. I prefer the extra comfort of mics with a little more low-mid fullness.
You know what that’s not a bad description. I have one. It is a pop sound. That’s absolutely not a bad thing though. It’s kind of a perfect pop sound in fact. Super useful. It also has lots of low mind fullness though. It’s just not as much that mid forward Neumann vintage sound. It was used on Vance Joy’s voice in latest work with Ryan Hewitt I believe. Perfect for capturing his airy voice. I love it.
Old 14th September 2018
  #360
Gear Maniac
 
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Okay, I picked up another MA5. I wanted to wait till I had it before doing any comparisons on the 67 and 87, because otherwise one of them would have had to go through my ISA430, Golden Age Pre-73, or the Apollo Unison pres, which wouldn’t be quite fair. The MA5 seems to impart a lot more detail and clarity, which really helps the 87 especially to not sound too dark and muddy. But here it is! As @spambot_2 had requested...

__

I recorded this with the mics both horizontal (about 3.5 feet off the ground), with the head baskets touching, and performed sitting down about 8-10” away through a pop filter. I had a GIK freestanding bass trap about 6” behind the mics to reduce room sound. Both microphones are level-matched. However, the 67 PSU output is noticeably higher on the 67. So, the 67 preamp gain was at 30dB, while the 87 preamp gain was at 45dB. I suppose that means the 87 is getting a little more preamp saturation, for what it’s worth. But that’s about where I’ve been setting them both for real vocal tracking. Output trim was at about -3.5dB in both cases.

As with the first clip of this track that I posted(“When The Stars Go Blue” by Ryan Adams), I had the same two plugin inserts on both lead vocal tracks:

FabFilter Pro-DS, catching the bigger sibilants. I’m naturally a little more sibilant, and I use this plugin on every vocal I do right off the bat (it always does a great job of taming them in a natural way).

RCompressor - Opto mode, 4:1 ratio, 4.75ms attack, 131ms release, only doing at most 3dB of gain reduction in the loud passages, but usually less (just for a tiny bit of transparent smoothing).

I included both of those plugins because I wanted to make it more of a listenable, real-world example. I suppose that makes things a little less scientific, but whatever! Music isn’t made in laboratories.

The tracks are also going to an aux send with a touch of UAD EMT 140 Plate reverb.

No other effects. The acoustic guitar is the same track as before done with the 2018 67 reissue, with no processing. The backing vocal tracks were done with the same mic as the lead vocal in each respective clip.

__

My impressions:
I don’t want to color anyone’s opinion, but I love both of ‘em! I think they’re both excellent, round, smooth-sounding mics. Both sound pretty awesome on just about anything. They have a similar vibe about them. To my ears, the 67 has more depth and detail, while the 87 is a little woolier/muddier. You could cut lead vocals with either! To me, the 67 is just about perfect and sounds just like a record, right off the bat. But the 87 isn’t far behind - in use, I generally just want to do a little more to clean up the sockish boxiness and add a tiny bit more definition. That’s just my preference though. There’s one track on my record that I had already finished with the 87 on lead vocals, and it worked great.

I’m grateful to have both, because I think in general it would work great to use the 67 on lead vocals (for the extra sheen and intimate detail) and then compliment it with the 87 on backing vocals and/or doubles (for a similar but more diffuse sound that sits nicely a little further back to give a little more padding).


Cheers,
Dan
Attached Files

Stars Go Blue - 1971 U87 MA5.mp3 (4.17 MB, 683 views)

Stars Go Blue - 2018 U67 MA5.mp3 (4.17 MB, 679 views)

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