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Chandler REDD mic next to a vintage U87 Condenser Microphones
View Poll Results: Should I give in to gearlust?
Get the REDD!
35 Votes - 41.67%
Stick with the 87!
49 Votes - 58.33%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

Old 28th July 2018
  #271
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
What I mean is, if you are talking about compression, in terms of limited dynamic range, how is the capsule doing that? Or do you mean something else?
Sorry for the confusion man,

I was actually just quoting this post by @Oldone from earlier in the thread:

"If I want the soul-less and compressed Chinese capsule sound, I can put up an MXL mic smash it with a plugin in and save you the money of the REDD."

Which I interpreted as a somewhat senseless and absurd dig at the Redd, by way of comparison to an MXL... and like you said, what the heck does it even mean anyways?

..at which point I felt that the thread was headed in a strange direction, given my appreciation for the Redd mic and chandler at a company, and said as much.

Sorry again for the confusion.
Old 28th July 2018
  #272
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That quote is being taken out of context. Re-read the original banter on that page.

I just thought it was funny!

Besides, there are some MXL models, that can can actually sound quite good.

But...

The REDD sure was a "wow" microphone for me, when I sang through it-and since Wade was right there... Could tell him in good conscience!

Kind of like comparing Honda's to Ferrari's. Guess which is which?

Hmm... Me recording myself on a REDD, vs. JJ recording me on a (compressed capsule!) MXL.
Gee I wonder which recording would sound better?

For me, part of what is intriguing about this thread is... You have a terrific singer (Kroc), singing through the terrific
REDD, and you can hear how on some songs it isn't the best singer/microphone match. Very educational.

Chris
Old 30th July 2018
  #273
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Boy "nothing clears the room", in High End, like bringing up any budget microphones!
Old 30th July 2018
  #274
Gear Maniac
 
rectape's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
Alrighty! I did two days in a pretty dope studio space in Brooklyn with some nice vintage mics, and I brought my REDD. We did a quick vocal shootout. The one catch is, I'm not sure which preamps my engineer was putting the other mics through, as we did it in a bit of a hurry. Mics included were:
- Vintage 1950s Telefunken U47
- Vintage Neumann U67
- RCA 44-BX
- RCA 77-DX
- My Chandler REDD
I also did a few clips at home, for reference:
- The REDD again
- My 1971 U87 into Avedis MA5
- Shure SM7b into Avedis MA5

EDIT: There is likely something wrong with the Chandler REDD. Out of respect for Chandler - and in fairness to the microphone, so it's being properly represented - I have removed these clips. I'll post new ones when we're certain that everything is up to snuff.

The song is one of my originals, from the album I'm recording.

Let me know what you think!

Thank you for the sound exampes.

Vintage U67 all day for me.
Old 30th July 2018
  #275
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
That quote is being taken out of context. Re-read the original banter on that page.

I just thought it was funny!

Besides, there are some MXL models, that can can actually sound quite good.

But...

The REDD sure was a "wow" microphone for me, when I sang through it-and since Wade was right there... Could tell him in good conscience!

Kind of like comparing Honda's to Ferrari's. Guess which is which?

Hmm... Me recording myself on a REDD, vs. JJ recording me on a (compressed capsule!) MXL.
Gee I wonder which recording would sound better?

For me, part of what is intriguing about this thread is... You have a terrific singer (Kroc), singing through the terrific
REDD, and you can hear how on some songs it isn't the best singer/microphone match. Very educational.

Chris
Thanks again, Chris! This has definitely been a cool and educational experience for me too. It's a shame about the REDD. I was hoping that it would blow everything out of the water, because everything I'd read/heard beforehand had indicated that it might. And I kept it originally, thinking that maybe my ears just weren't used to a mic capturing that much 'detail', or that I had to play around with it to find the right settings, placement, etc.. But unfortunately I'm just not sure that it's a sound I can get enthusiastic about.

I'm now using my 87 for all the vocals for my record (excluding the 77DX and U67 vocals I did in Brooklyn. And one track I did with an SM7b) - because I know at least I won't regret the vocal sound later. I haven't decided, and I'll keep testing, but I might wind up selling the REDD unless it sounds dope on a lot of clients... At that price, there's no sense keeping it if I never use it on anything. Better it go to someone who actually does think it's the best mic they've ever heard! And I think I'd rather put the money towards a U67 reissue or DIY U47 clone going into a vintage Neve.

If things did go a little 'off the rails' here with the MXL comparison, etc., I think it's only the result of people hearing a much raved-about mic sound downright harsh (again, no offense to Chandler). It's SUPER popular right now, and there are so many people talking about it being the best tube LDC at its price point, capable of beating out all the 'holy grail' vintage mics. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's a magic bullet for every purpose or voice. Which is definitely an important lesson on mic pairing, more than anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Boy "nothing clears the room", in High End, like bringing up any budget microphones!
I'll keep posting stuff here on and off... I'd like to go to a studio nearby soon that has a Flea 12, Flea 49, a (different) U47, a 67, and some other stuff, and take the REDD (and probably my 87) and do another shootout.
I've said how I feel about the mic a few times now, but Chandler are a good company, so I don't want to incite bad publicity for them by harping on about it too much.

But if anyone wants me to post samples of the REDD on anything else in the mean time, I'd be happy to do so!

P.S. Super cool that we have Mr. @jjblair contributing to the discussion in here! Thank you, sir!
Old 30th July 2018
  #276
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
P.S. Super cool that we have Mr. @jjblair contributing to the discussion in here! Thank you, sir!
Watch it with that "sir" stuff. I'm just another studio rat. But, it just so happens that I love to procrastinate by sharing my opinions, of which I have plenty, on mics. LOL.

What you should be really stoked about is that Klaus graces us with his presence. That man has forgotten more about mics than most of us will ever know.
Old 30th July 2018
  #277
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rectape View Post
Thank you for the sound exampes.

Vintage U67 all day for me.
You're very welcome!
That U67 was a beautiful mic - we used it on a couple of the tracks.

I'm curious to hear how it would sound in comparison to a different U47, or one with a K47 capsule.
Old 31st July 2018
  #278
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
Watch it with that "sir" stuff. I'm just another studio rat. But, it just so happens that I love to procrastinate by sharing my opinions, of which I have plenty, on mics. LOL.

What you should be really stoked about is that Klaus graces us with his presence. That man has forgotten more about mics than most of us will ever know.
Haha, well, thank you all the same! I'm Aussie, and we mostly just swear at each other to express appreciation, but I figured 'sir' would be a little more polite.

At any rate, it's super cool that those of us who are just entering the realm of high end mics are able to benefit from the experience of guys like you and Klaus: actually, right after I got the U87 that I'm using in these samples, I started a thread about it (the capsule collar had been chipped in transit somehow) and he was kind enough to offer his feedback and advice in regard to that.

I also noticed that you've worked with Ryan Adams, whose songs I've been using in the samples I posted (like the first comparison between the REDD and 87 at the start of the thread), which is very neat to see too.

Anyway, back to the mics!! Hehe.

Cheers,
Dan
Old 31st July 2018
  #279
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"Well I tried to record on Sunday, but the capsule got compressed. So I set my sights on Monday, and I got myself depressed."

Thanks guys for returning!

Chris

P.S. Here's a couple new lines for "Mister Golden-Ear" above...
"I'm not ready for the High End, But I do agree Klaus
Heyne". "That a vintage Neumann, might make this sound
sublime".
Old 31st July 2018
  #280
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
"Well I tried to record on Sunday, but the capsule got compressed. So I set my sights on Monday, and I got myself depressed."

Thanks guys for returning!

Chris
Ha! I was just hanging out with Dewey tonight!
Old 31st July 2018
  #281
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Awesome! I love their music. Chris
Old 2nd August 2018
  #282
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Okay, another update: I had another male singer-songwriter friend up at my studio yesterday, and we live-tracked a couple of acoustic songs. He has kind of a Chris Carrabba/Dashboard Confessional voice and vibe. I probably might have normally reached for my SM7b for his style, as he is SUPER dynamic. Like, really soft finger-picking/sensitive singing and then hard punk strumming/belting in the same song. Anyway, I used the REDD on his vocals through the WA2A to catch the belting parts, with the 87 on guitar in Fig-8 (after shooting out both on his voice). The verdict: the REDD totally slayed on his voice.

I was actually boosting a little 12k with him! The 87 sounded a little boxy and he benefited from the extra presence and detail from the REDD. On him, that mic actually sounds like I was hoping it would.
Anyway, suffice to say I might actually keep it, because we pulled some really great vocal tracks. It reaffirms my speculation that it definitely doesn't work for every voice (like a C12 I guess? though I haven't used one), but when it does, it'd probably blow every other 'holy grail' mic out of the water.

I'll see if I can post some samples at some point soon.
Old 11th August 2018
  #283
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Hey Kroc. I was just reading an insightful comment by Martin John Butler, regarding the REDD.

I think he's on to something. He mentioned its "very high end extension", and that could affect how you track with it. (on a different BBS) If I understood it correctly, this could otherwise sound like a subtle distortion, at the top.

Chris
Old 11th August 2018
  #284
Gear Nut
 
rwsand's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
The verdict: the REDD totally slayed on his voice.

Anyway, suffice to say I might actually keep it, because we pulled some really great vocal tracks. It reaffirms my speculation that it definitely doesn't work for every voice (like a C12 I guess? though I haven't used one), but when it does, it'd probably blow every other 'holy grail' mic out of the water.

This happened to me with my voice. I almost gave up but when I put it up it saved the day!
Old 12th August 2018
  #285
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Hey Kroc. I was just reading an insightful comment by Martin John Butler, regarding the REDD.

I think he's on to something. He mentioned its "very high end extension", and that could affect how you track with it. (on a different BBS) If I understood it correctly, this could otherwise sound like a subtle distortion, at the top.

Chris
I read some of Martin John Butler's posts a while back and checked out a bunch of his samples before buying the REDD. Actually, hearing him use it in the context of stripped back acoustic singer-songwriter arrangements encouraged me to give the mic a try.

Interesting about the high end extension. But I'm not sure specifically what conclusion he's drawing from that observation, or in what way he'd suggest using it differently to any other mic with normal vocal tracking?

_____________


Okay, so, I've mainly been comparing the REDD to the 87. Which I suppose isn't completely fair, because they have very different tonal signatures. And everyone seems to have their own opinion on the 87 sound, too.
Here's a new comparison... the REDD and another similarly 'bright'/detailed microphone (Or 'neutral', depending on who you ask - lacking the Neumann mid-bump). Whatever you'd like to call it.

Which do you like better, and why? And which do you think the REDD is?

Same song as I have used for the other clips (it's fairly dynamic, so I figured it's a good test subject).

Details:
Sample was recorded with both mics side by side on the same take. I was singing a little under a foot away. No processing at all. The levels should be identical. The comparison mic is going directly into a Unison preamp on my Apollo. REDD is at +27dB in normal mode (output at unity), line in to the Apollo.

I may not post the results of this one publicly, but am happy to PM results to anyone interested in a few days.
Attached Files

August Shootout 1 - MIC A.mp3 (2.46 MB, 1092 views)

August Shootout 1 - MIC B.mp3 (2.46 MB, 1069 views)

Old 13th August 2018
  #286
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My sense from MJB's mention of high end extension, is a good idea might be to try singing at least 18" away from the REDD microphone.

I like "Microphone B" much better. I hope that's the REDD.
Rounder/fuller, but I'm biased towards "vintage" sounding vocals to begin with.

"Microphone A" sounds much more modern to me, ala Sony C800G.
Or maybe how the Sony C100 sounds.

I can understand, however, that in a mix context... "A" could be preferred.

What little I do know, I was shocked when first reading Bob Ohlsson's posts regarding standard Motown vocal recording. Recording vocalists from 2+ feet away? When mostly I see pictures/videos of singers practically eating a LDC mic? Ironically, I finally figured out a farther LDC vocal distance, works best on me too.

Feel free to PM me, with the results, whenever that's most convenient.

Chris
Old 13th August 2018
  #287
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spambot_2's Avatar
Mic A sounds much more rasp-y when you go higher in pitch ("chases all my thoughts away" in particular), it's a bit lighter/thinner and yet it seems a bit more natural than B to me.
Mic B sounds like it has a dip in the high mids, kind of like a C800G, but it also sounds smoother/rounder/less harsh and raspy when you go high, with a bit less high end.

I prefer mic A if not for the raspy-ness, I would choose it for any part where you didn't go that high in pitch, and to avoid that defect would be the only reason why I'd choose mic B, like on that track you posted.
Of course I too would be interested in knowing what those mics are :p
Old 13th August 2018
  #288
Gear Nut
 

Listening only through my laptop speakers I would say that mic A is the Redd. To my ears it has a little more depth and richness than mic B. But without headphones its a bit of a crap shoot.

After now listening through ear buds I think its the opposite. Mic B is Redd.

Last edited by Zanderwestcoast; 14th August 2018 at 05:56 AM..
Old 13th August 2018
  #289
Gear Maniac
 
Kroc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
My sense from MJB's mention of high end extension, is a good idea might be to try singing at least 18" away from the REDD microphone.

I like "Microphone B" much better. I hope that's the REDD.
Rounder/fuller, but I'm biased towards "vintage" sounding vocals to begin with.

"Microphone A" sounds much more modern to me, ala Sony C800G.
Or maybe how the Sony C100 sounds.

I can understand, however, that in a mix context... "A" could be preferred.

What little I do know, I was shocked when first reading Bob Ohlsson's posts regarding standard Motown vocal recording. Recording vocalists from 2+ feet away? When mostly I see pictures/videos of singers practically eating a LDC mic? Ironically, I finally figured out a farther LDC vocal distance, works best on me too.

Feel free to PM me, with the results, whenever that's most convenient.

Chris
RE: The REDD - I've tried singing further away, but personally find that just makes things worse, because the lack of proximity effect makes it sound even thinner without affecting the sibilance.

Thanks for the feedback on the shootout!! I want to keep the discussion open for a bit before I do any revealing, but will for sure PM you the results after that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spambot_2 View Post
Mic A sounds much more rasp-y when you go higher in pitch ("chases all my thoughts away" in particular), it's a bit lighter/thinner and yet it seems a bit more natural than B to me.
Mic B sounds like it has a dip in the high mids, kind of like a C800G, but it also sounds smoother/rounder/less harsh and raspy when you go high, with a bit less high end.

I prefer mic A if not for the raspy-ness, I would choose it for any part where you didn't go that high in pitch, and to avoid that defect would be the only reason why I'd choose mic B, like on that track you posted.
Of course I too would be interested in knowing what those mics are :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanderwestcoast View Post
Listening only through my laptop speakers I would say that mic A is the Redd. To my ears it has a little more depth and richness than mic B. But without headphones its a bit of a crap shoot.
Thanks for the feedback, guys. Very interesting! How would you rate the difference between the two mics? Substantial, or only slight?

@Funny Cat @cheu78 @toledo3 @jjblair @Doc Mixwell - Would love to know what you guys think, too, if you have a chance to listen.

Cheers,
Dan
Old 13th August 2018
  #290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
@Doc Mixwell - Would love to know what you guys think, too, if you have a chance to listen.

Cheers,
Dan
Will take a listen when I get a moment,
Old 13th August 2018
  #291
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Same, saw it and want to give a chance to listen properly.
Old 13th August 2018
  #292
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
B sounds much better to me, like 100x better. A is very unflattering.
Old 13th August 2018
  #293
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
What little I do know, I was shocked when first reading Bob Ohlsson's posts regarding standard Motown vocal recording. Recording vocalists from 2+ feet away? When mostly I see pictures/videos of singers practically eating a LDC mic? Ironically, I finally figured out a farther LDC vocal distance, works best on me too.
Far away means less proximity effect (less low end) and diffused high end (less crisp). It also means that you're going to hear more of the environment you're in, which means reflections form the walls, and the sound of that room. That's a taste choice, depending on your voice, the mic and the type of music.
Old 14th August 2018
  #294
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Thanks Kroc and JJ.

Now I finally "get" the importance of getting the recording room "together".
At minimum, I'd need to go to a good buddy's
project studio, to use a LDC for anything important.
Chris
Old 14th August 2018
  #295
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
RE: The REDD - I've tried singing further away, but personally find that just makes things worse, because the lack of proximity effect makes it sound even thinner without affecting the sibilance.

Thanks for the feedback on the shootout!! I want to keep the discussion open for a bit before I do any revealing, but will for sure PM you the results after that.






Thanks for the feedback, guys. Very interesting! How would you rate the difference between the two mics? Substantial, or only slight?

@Funny Cat @cheu78 @toledo3 @jjblair @Doc Mixwell - Would love to know what you guys think, too, if you have a chance to listen.

Cheers,
Dan
After listening through ear buds I think the REDD is mic B. It is perhaps a little clearer and open sounding.
Old 14th August 2018
  #296
Gear Nut
Mic A is most definitely the REDD. I much prefer it to Mic B (not that B was bad at all). I just prefer a more modern/detailed/hifi sound.
Old 14th August 2018
  #297
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cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post

Thanks for the feedback, guys. Very interesting! How would you rate the difference between the two mics? Substantial, or only slight?

@Funny Cat @cheu78 @toledo3 @jjblair @Doc Mixwell - Would love to know what you guys think, too, if you have a chance to listen.

Cheers,
Dan
Dear Dan,
mind you I have only heard the clips quick and dirty on earbuds..
I have the impression that mic B simply have more bass, maybe more proximity.. (although I didn't notice a change in the room,, or not much..but again.. were earbuds).
the "spittiness" sounds about the same to me on both A and B, although when you listen to both they sound different, but only in the low-lowmids..

I'd say it's the same mic with different eq or settings or proximity..

maybe I'm totally wrong and my ears are completely muffled after a week sailing and being on a plane.. which is actually quite true at the moment..

will try to listen in the next few days on a proper monitoring system and pm you my final thoughts.

anyway I don't like it that much.. to "essy" or "harsh" up there.. prefer other samples you've posted before..



Cheu

Last edited by cheu78; 14th August 2018 at 12:16 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 14th August 2018
  #298
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spambot_2's Avatar
I'd say the difference between the mics was important, not really a big difference in sound but definitely something that couldn't be fixed with EQ and that could ruin an otherwise good take, namely the raspy-ness in the highs with mic A.
The rest wasn't a very big difference, so taking that into consideration one might work better than the other depending on the situation, but I'd say both would work.

I'm not very familiar with the REDD, but if I had to pick one I'd say it's mic B.
Also, if I may ask, could you detail the mic positioning and guitar setup you used to record the clips in your first post of this thread?
Mics apart, I thought it sounded very desirable overall and I can't seem to achieve a result that sounds quite like that.

And, as always, thanks for the shootout, do keep it up!
Old 14th August 2018
  #299
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roger's Avatar
 

I didn’t love either - (although B is my pref; nicer “S”s) - mainly coz you sound quite strained on these takes. At first I thought you were singing a couple of semis higher than prev but nope. Same key.
You sounded more relaxed and much better on older takes for whatever reason (is the sound in your cans affecting your performance?!). Do em again and chuck up that 87 of yours alongside these other 2 horrors! Let the 87 shine it’s glorious light on these other 2 shrieky harpies! Haha!
Old 15th August 2018
  #300
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Funny Cat's Avatar
I liked B better. More full sounding than the other. B is a little less harsh as well. Still a little sibilant but not too bad. Haven’t read the responses yet. Didn’t want to be influenced but definitely B from that comparison.




[Late Edit] I’m with @Moonwhistle on this. Just listened again and B sounds 100x better. A doesn’t sound good at all to my ears. Very thin and harsh up top. Almost sounds like the capsule is right on the edge of distorting. Would take a lot of work to sit it in a mix.
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