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DAD AX24 or Mytek 8x192 for DA?
Old 4th March 2018
  #1
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DAD AX24 or Mytek 8x192 for DA?

Hi guys,

I need 8 channels of good DA conversion and boiled it down to AX24 and 8x192, both used. Do some of you have experience with both of them? If so, do you have a clear preference?

One more question regarding the AX24: does the unit accept SPDIF signals at the 8ch AES input? As I understand this works with Mytek.

Thanks!!
Old 8th March 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 

i have never used the dad. so please take this with a grain of salt. but i have used the myteks for almost a decade - and never liked them. replacing them was a huge update for me. i have only heared good things about that dads (but again, never used them myself).
Old 8th March 2018
  #3
Mytek 8x192 are excellent. There are many people here who swear by them (they seem to win many shootouts).
Old 8th March 2018
  #4
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DAD is outstanding and I recommend this option over almost any other d/a. Certainly the sound from the DAD is much more sophisticated, detailed, and appealing than the MYTEK.

The AES input into the AX24 is on a d-sub connector. Whether one can fit SPDIF to AES adaptors (RCA to XLR) to the xlr output connectors on the incoming AES cable has not been tested here. Probably not a good idea to use adaptors since the input is based on the truly professional AES input with AES professional flags.

One thing to note: when using the unit at 192kHz, the DAD AX-24 requires dual-wire AES to be used.

Up to 96kHz., a single AES wire can be used
Old 8th March 2018
  #5
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DAD

While it's true the myteks won many shootouts, they didn't win many of the shootouts with the DAD included, from what I recall. I went with merging, but the DAD is excellent.

Enjoy your choice.
Old 9th March 2018
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEEspresso View Post
DAD

While it's true the myteks won many shootouts, they didn't win many of the shootouts with the DAD included, from what I recall. I went with merging, but the DAD is excellent.

Enjoy your choice.
TEEspresso, could you tell me your impressions of the DAD as compared to the Merging? While I can demo the DAD here I cannot do the same with Merging, and I prefer the form of the Hapi.
Old 9th March 2018
  #7
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Currently owning and using both, Mytek and DAD:
The Mytek is uncoloured, transparend and clean, but at the same time a tiny bit of warm and big. It seems to please my ears. Harsh mixes sound a bit tamed through it. It never sounds glassy like a Lynx. Talking bout AD as well as DA.
I'd never sell my Mytek. It is a bit part of my sound. I run a lot of my mixes through it in mastering, just to make good use of its pleasing qualities.

My DAD sounds clear, with a very precise dynamic rendering. It is the closest thing to "what you put in, you get out". If you mix a song with round Neve'y bottom, you get the exact same thing from the DAD after ADDA. If you mix something punchy and metallic glossy SSL-style, you get exact the same colour after the DAD.

I never had a chance to directly compare it to a Merging Horus or IZ Radar.

Tow other things I found out: The Lynx Aurora (1st generation) reacts a lot to external wordclock (soundwise). The Mytek and the DAD not at all.

The Mytek has a little more latency than the DAD when using the manufacturers optional USB respectively Dante cards. I wouldn't use the Mytek with softsynths. It's not horrible, but it's a bit more than let's say RME.
Both are great pieces of technology, and basically you can't go wrong with any of these. I've been at some studios that had only Myteks everywhere, and it sounded absolutely phantastic at those places. Some big German broadcast facilities use DAD.
Hope this helps.
Old 9th March 2018
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing View Post
TEEspresso, could you tell me your impressions of the DAD as compared to the Merging? While I can demo the DAD here I cannot do the same with Merging, and I prefer the form of the Hapi.
Only heard the DAD in person one time, with a few songs I was familiar with. I found it to be very good, but I have not spent a long time with one. I did, and do, follow with interest the many DSD capable shootout threads here and elsewhere, and DAD still ranks among the best according to many.

I have had a Hapi for almost 2 years, use it for dsd256 recording, playback and analogue chain processing. In comparison to the DAD I would say they are very close. But I've only listened to the DAD for a few hours, many years back. However, the Hapi does dsd256 which I like better than dsd128 or dsd64, so that was a factor. I like the Hapi better than my mytek 192 dsd dac (bought in 2012) as well, but the mytek also sounds pretty damn good, if a bit euphonic, and is still in use in another system. Roon for the win.

I want to limit my pick to the mytek and DAD the original poster asked about though, and of those 2 I'd pick the DAD.
Old 9th March 2018
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEEspresso View Post
Only heard the DAD in person one time, with a few songs I was familiar with. I found it to be very good, but I have not spent a long time with one. I did, and do, follow with interest the many DSD capable shootout threads here and elsewhere, and DAD still ranks among the best according to many.

I have had a Hapi for almost 2 years, use it for dsd256 recording, playback and analogue chain processing. In comparison to the DAD I would say they are very close. But I've only listened to the DAD for a few hours, many years back. However, the Hapi does dsd256 which I like better than dsd128 or dsd64, so that was a factor. I like the Hapi better than my mytek 192 dsd dac (bought in 2012) as well, but the mytek also sounds pretty damn good, if a bit euphonic, and is still in use in another system. Roon for the win.

I want to limit my pick to the mytek and DAD the original poster asked about though, and of those 2 I'd pick the DAD.
Thanks mucho for the details.
Old 12th March 2018
  #10
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-hiho View Post
Currently owning and using both, Mytek and DAD:
The Mytek is uncoloured, transparend and clean, but at the same time a tiny bit of warm and big. It seems to please my ears. Harsh mixes sound a bit tamed through it. It never sounds glassy like a Lynx. Talking bout AD as well as DA.
I'd never sell my Mytek. It is a bit part of my sound. I run a lot of my mixes through it in mastering, just to make good use of its pleasing qualities.

My DAD sounds clear, with a very precise dynamic rendering. It is the closest thing to "what you put in, you get out". If you mix a song with round Neve'y bottom, you get the exact same thing from the DAD after ADDA. If you mix something punchy and metallic glossy SSL-style, you get exact the same colour after the DAD.

I never had a chance to directly compare it to a Merging Horus or IZ Radar.

Tow other things I found out: The Lynx Aurora (1st generation) reacts a lot to external wordclock (soundwise). The Mytek and the DAD not at all.

The Mytek has a little more latency than the DAD when using the manufacturers optional USB respectively Dante cards. I wouldn't use the Mytek with softsynths. It's not horrible, but it's a bit more than let's say RME.
Both are great pieces of technology, and basically you can't go wrong with any of these. I've been at some studios that had only Myteks everywhere, and it sounded absolutely phantastic at those places. Some big German broadcast facilities use DAD.
Hope this helps.
Cool thread!! Thanks for sharing..

Just now I'm considering to improve my ADDA.. Because I've "rediscovered" my RME MADI HDSPX card.. it´s stunning! with the internal FPGA digital summing TOTALMIX, I can beat logic/cubase... Summing without effort.
I also own an Antelope Orion32 connected to the RME with MADI using 16DA to a pair of Dangerous Music 2bus+
But honestly.. I don't like Orion's sound. I'm mainly making orchestral music, and Orion it´s really harsh and without warm/low end.

I think it´s the real weakness of my sound.
As 2bus ADDA I'll receive the new Quantum HEDD in a couple of weeks, so that part it´s covered.

My concern is about the DA for summing (the Orion replacement). I don't wanna loose my RME because of its really low latency and amazing TOTALMIX power..
Probably I'll reduce my external summing channels to 16 instead of 32. I think that a better converter with less channel it will be much better than more and more channels but medium quality converter..

That's why I though about buy a pair of mytek 8x192 (even being quite old)
Everybody says that I don't have to look at it specs (not top notch), but to its sound.
What do you think? DAD solution I found it really expensive and I don't know if it will be twice better than mytek's quality...
will worth to include in the battle any other
Old 13th March 2018
  #11
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Having worked with the Orion at a friends place, too, I don't think that the Orion makes a bad backend for summing applications. I do a lot of classical music at 24/96, and I rarely ever "heard" modern technology fail. That being said, of course it think that a DAD or Mytek sounds better than a Orion. At least to my ears. But Orion won't ruin your sound or be the weak point in an otherwise decent chain.
Listen to some 20yo great mixes today - were those really so bad, since they didn't have DADs and Burls back then?
I have a lot of classical music CDs from the 90ies in my shelf, that sound just wonderful.
Not to say that good things can't be improved further.
If I were at your decision, I'd try the Myteks at my place. They are not so hard to get borrowed, to my experience.
Other with DAD - I really had to buy them blind to get a chance to test them.
If you find Orion harsh, then the Myteks will probably be better for your task then the DADs.
Mytek has that mentioned warm glue'y type of charakter to it.
Similar to Burl.
Merging and DAD seem to share the goal for ultimate clarity, after all I heard (a friend of mine uses Merging Horus, but I've never been at his place, since this is on the opposite side of the globe - but his records are simply great, full of wonderful detail and transparancy).
Old 13th March 2018
  #12
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classic86's Avatar
 

Thanks very much for your replies so far, especially to Plush, TEEspresso and t-hiho for actually responding to my question.

I conclude that you really can't go wrong with either one, so I will make my decision on the best used deal available in the next weeks.
Old 13th March 2018
  #13
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-hiho View Post
Having worked with the Orion at a friends place, too, I don't think that the Orion makes a bad backend for summing applications. I do a lot of classical music at 24/96, and I rarely ever "heard" modern technology fail. That being said, of course it think that a DAD or Mytek sounds better than a Orion. At least to my ears. But Orion won't ruin your sound or be the weak point in an otherwise decent chain.
Listen to some 20yo great mixes today - were those really so bad, since they didn't have DADs and Burls back then?
I have a lot of classical music CDs from the 90ies in my shelf, that sound just wonderful.
Not to say that good things can't be improved further.
If I were at your decision, I'd try the Myteks at my place. They are not so hard to get borrowed, to my experience.
Other with DAD - I really had to buy them blind to get a chance to test them.
If you find Orion harsh, then the Myteks will probably be better for your task then the DADs.
Mytek has that mentioned warm glue'y type of charakter to it.
Similar to Burl.
Merging and DAD seem to share the goal for ultimate clarity, after all I heard (a friend of mine uses Merging Horus, but I've never been at his place, since this is on the opposite side of the globe - but his records are simply great, full of wonderful detail and transparancy).
Thanks for your vision.. And you are right.. probably any mid tier ADDA will ruin any record today..
In my case, it´s just a matter of taste after testing a lot of tracks through it, and them compare it with Crane Song quantum chipset as an example (my AVOCET)...Hugh difference!

I'm sure that DAD and Merging would be the most transparent ones.. But they are really expensives! And may be I could find their sound too transparent.
I'm trying to find a more organic and musical sound. Not crispy as Antelope units.

So if I keep some analog summing (although I'm not completely sure if it´s still worthing today), the only options I found to keep my RME because of its Totalmix and low latency, and just buy a converter are:

a) 2xMytek 8x192 MADI (16 in/out) it´s around 4k € +taxes
b) BURL B16 MADI with 16analog out and 4 in it´s around 6,1k € +taxes (not cheap also)
c) HAPI with 16analog in/out is around 6,8k €+taxes

I'm not sure to include Apogee in this battle, because it´s not cheap and it´s a converter and interface on its own, and may be its sound is close to mytek or even worse.
Old 13th March 2018
  #14
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So after all, I'd suggest Mytek would be the way to go!
Be careful when ordering, Mytek doesn't come with MADI as standart setup, afaik. You'll need that option card.
Forget about Apogee. Way too rock'n'roll for my ears.
BUT: don't forget about those:
The DA8-T |
Those could be the only third alternative next to Burl.
Greetz,
t
BTW, I did a shoot out between RME AES32>DAD vs DAD Dante. Standart working Latency is identical (at my place about 11ms). Lower values are possible on both sides, but only with some significant performance loss (i.e. CPU efficiency and bus-bandwidth). With sessions with many plugins, I can't get lower latencies then 11ms, and still have a stable realtime system. RME has one big advantage, and this is the routing in Totalmix. It's much more comfortable, and many things are possible, that simply can't be done on other systems.
Old 14th March 2018
  #15
Gear Head
 
TEEspresso's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by esencia View Post
Because I've "rediscovered" my RME MADI HDSPX card.. it´s stunning! with the internal FPGA digital summing TOTALMIX, I can beat logic/cubase... Summing without effort.

That's why I though about buy a pair of mytek 8x192 (even being quite old)
Everybody says that I don't have to look at it specs (not top notch), but to its sound.
Not to veer too far off topic, but I'm very curious about TOTALMIX, and have been researching it. I very much like your solution to, as I see it, mix into totalmix then route out to DAC for further analogue summing. I've been trying to find a way to do exactly this to facilitate a fellow producer who I am collaborating with in multiple locations. Could you share a bit more about how you mix itb with it, because it looks tailor made as a solution.

Also sounds like the mytek with the madi card option is a great fit for you, by the way.

Thanks.
Old 14th March 2018
  #16
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classic86's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by esencia View Post
...it´s stunning! with the internal FPGA digital summing TOTALMIX, I can beat logic/cubase... Summing without effort.
Please make a blind ABX test and report back. This sounds like total voodoo to me.

Quote:
ABX Audio Testing with foobar2000 - YouTube



This video demonstrates ABX testing using foobar2000. foobar2000 ABX testing is a methodology for comparing two devices or syst...
Old 14th March 2018
  #17
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by classic86 View Post
Please make a blind ABX test and report back. This sounds like total voodoo to me.
I don't wanna create any debate about this. I did a lot of test, and in average..I prefer the TOTALMIX mix, but it's IMHO.

This is something that I discovered recently after a friend of mine show me how his Yamaha DM2000 had better digital summing than logic because it's using dedicated FPGA hw for it..
So I realized that RME TOTALMIX FX has internal 48bit hw summing FPGA.
So IMHO , there are two things happening. First one, when you have a really big template, the RME is supporting all summing jobs (so your DAW has more power for plugins). And the second one.. I feel a more open and less crispy mix than internal sum. It´s like everything had a better space... Depending on the song that is more subtle or more clear of course. And also, may be that you prefer a more center sound for that specific song.. (completely personal taste).

As you ask.. I've done a few minutes ago a blind test using ABX tool ..
And these were my results
Hope it helps..
Attached Thumbnails
DAD AX24 or Mytek 8x192 for DA?-screen-shot-2018-03-14-10.47.31.png  
Old 14th March 2018
  #18
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Cool that you made the test Can you share the uncompressed audio files?
Thanks!
Old 14th March 2018
  #19
Gear Maniac
how could I share those files? 94MB each!..
Old 14th March 2018
  #20
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEEspresso View Post
Also sounds like the mytek with the madi card option is a great fit for you, by the way.

Thanks.
Do you think that it will be a big step forward in terms of audio quality from my Orion32?
Old 14th March 2018
  #21
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cut out the same 20s of every wav file, this should be enough! then you should be able to attach the files directly to a post.
Old 14th March 2018
  #22
Gear Maniac
the track has different passages.. 20sec I don't think it would be enough ...
Old 14th March 2018
  #23
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TEEspresso's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by classic86 View Post
Please make a blind ABX test and report back. This sounds like total voodoo to me.
Sorry, but why does adding more computational DSP to mix with equal voodoo? TOTALMIX runs on the RME hardware. Like the UA APollo stuff etc.

As they say in the racing world there's no substitute for cubic inches.
Old 14th March 2018
  #24
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TEEspresso's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by esencia View Post
Do you think that it will be a big step forward in terms of audio quality from my Orion32?
I've not heard any of the Antelope converters, so I couldn't really say. I would be surprised if the mytek was worse, though, as the orion is not mentioned often in the shootouts of high-end multichannel converters.
Old 14th March 2018
  #25
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEEspresso View Post
I've not heard any of the Antelope converters, so I couldn't really say. I would be surprised if the mytek was worse, though, as the orion is not mentioned often in the shootouts of high-end multichannel converters.
Thank you..
Today I’ve listening to a blind test between mytek and other high converters and it has a nice sound, pretty silky and a warm low end, may be not as wider as Forsell but Forsell is much more expensive...
My last decision would be if I should keep or not my analog summing gear (32h dangerous music)..I if it still worths or not (16ch) ...yeah, I now, the eteeeeerrrrnal debate
Old 17th March 2018
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
DAD is outstanding and I recommend this option over almost any other d/a. Certainly the sound from the DAD is much more sophisticated, detailed, and appealing than the MYTEK.

...
One thing to note: when using the unit at 192kHz, the DAD AX-24 requires dual-wire AES to be used. ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by classic86 View Post
boiled it down to AX24 and 8x192, both used. Do some of you have experience with both of them? ...
One more question regarding the AX24: does the unit accept SPDIF signals at the 8ch AES input? As I understand this works with Mytek.
From the AX24 manual:

The 8 channel AES3 I/O module is able to interface all 8 input and output channels of the AX24 according to the AES3 specification up to the 96 kHz in single wire/true speed. ... 176,4 and 192 kHz as a dual wire format, and ... 352,8 and 384 kHz as a quad wire format. ...

3 positions the D25 connector pin-out is compatible with the following manufacturers (typical)
Pos. 1 Yamaha, Mackie, Akai and Apogee
Pos. 2 Merging (factory default)
Pos. 3 Tascam and Digidesign

Last edited by xcskier; 17th March 2018 at 10:37 PM..
Old 17th March 2018
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
DAD is outstanding and I recommend this option over almost any other d/a. Certainly the sound from the DAD is much more sophisticated, detailed, and appealing than the MYTEK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by esencia View Post
I'm sure that DAD and Merging would be the most transparent ones.. But they are really expensives! And may be I could find their sound too transparent.
I'm trying to find a more organic and musical sound. Not crispy as Antelope units.
We've owned a Mytek 8x192 , and currently have two DAD AX24.

Mytek is a great deal in the highend, and I really appreciate the monitoring bus. Really miss the ease of control for the headphones, and mute for monitors. It's a very practical unit and sounds good.

However, I totally agree with Plush. DAD is on another level than the 8x192.

I have no experience with the Antelope referred to above, but I completely disagree with the characterization that DAD is not musical, (however in all fairness, the poster does seem to indicate it's more from a feeling of what a stereotype connotation of the word "transparent" conveys, and not from extended experience with DAD or Merging).

In fact, with close testing and some blind listening of re-recorded DA of both Mytek and DAD, this was the first occasion I truly understood what I now define as a musical experience with a DAC. (I'll spare you the detailed description...) Beyond that moment, when we updated our monitors, that was the next occasion we finally appreciated DAD as the most musically satisfying experience up to that point.

Last edited by xcskier; 19th March 2018 at 08:14 PM..
Old 17th March 2018
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classic86 View Post
One more question regarding the AX24: does the unit accept SPDIF signals at the 8ch AES input? As I understand this works with Mytek.
Are you sure the 8x192 AES accepts SPDIF ? I just searched the user manual and didn't find a SPDIF reference.

I know older stereo Mytek units have SPDIF coax (and perhaps S/PDIF optical).

We used to have the 8x192 ADAT i/o card, and I seem to recall there may have been an option for S/PDIF stereo optical via ADAT optical... BUT it's been a while and I could be mixing this up with an old RME unit, (so please don't quote me on that!).

Early on, there were digital option modules for the DAD AX24 with AES + SPDIF coax (and optical?), but they would be extremely difficult to find. At this point DAD only has AES and MADI modules remaining.

Also a final note on 4 to 8 channel DA: Would SPDIF even have the capability of handling lossless PCM?? - other than a compressed surround sound format e.g. Dolby AC3? ...

Found this:
"S/PDIF is based on the AES3 interconnect standard... S/PDIF can carry two channels of uncompressed PCM audio or compressed 5.1/7.1 surround sound (such as DTS audio codec); it cannot support lossless formats (other than 2ch LPCM) "

Feel free to PM me, I might be able to give you a bit more info on Mytek and DAD i/o configuration suggestions etc. (we do have an AX24 for sale, not that I want to plug that too much, but I certainly don't want you to have a digital I/O expectation that won't handle your needs).
Old 18th November 2018
  #29
Here for the gear
 

Mytek 8x192 ADDA unit

Hi guys ,am in UK and have a mint condition one of these units for sale as is surplass to my requirements now, only used a few times and still under warranty with KMR Audio UK, origional box and with manuals absolute bargain at £1250
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