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Did you move from mixing on an SSL console to mixing ITB and ever regret the move ? Digital Converters
Old 20th February 2018
  #1
Did you move from mixing on an SSL console to mixing ITB and ever regret the move ?

A month ago a producer which is a long time friend and client of mine has challenged me with mixing one of his productions completely ITB,

I took the challenge and it went pretty well, I was enjoying the total recall free life and have tried it on more productions with success, the clients were happy with the mixes, no one has said anything or noticed any difference,
I went on and mixed a few songs for a pop production for one of the major artists in my country, it's the third album I've been mixing for her and she haven't noticed any change as well and were very happy with the mixes.

So now, a month later I'm jumping between a few productions everyday without zero total recall time and without the help of my assistant which is a very new thing for me and I feel very "free" now.

I've began thinking about moving to do my mixing ITB and only keep my SSL Sigma for summing, a Bricasti M7, maybe an Eventide and of course my mastering outboard for the 2 Bus which is where I feel digital is still have to go a long way to replace.



Did any of you mixing engineers here made such move ?
Did you ever regret it ? if so:
why ?
sonics ?
clients who left ?
worflow ?




Some serious questions this time but it's 2018 and I'm considering some big moves
Old 20th February 2018
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TanTan View Post
Did any of you mixing engineers here made such move? Did you ever regret it ? if so:
why ?
sonics ?
clients who left ?
worflow ?
started out on amek, neotek, mci, a800 etc in the early eighties, went itb around 2001 - returned to mixing on a (digital) desk in 2014 and on (mostly) digital outboard, kept daw as a recorder/for editing

sonics: for some gear, there is no emulation available or it sounds much different or it would take so much processing power that i rather do it with the hardware toys.

clients: wouldn't wanna work without total recall these days (as most clients seem to be unable to decide on the spot/want things changed several times).

i did loose some (very few) clients due to (the lack of) speed of work, yet i got new clients (more than i lost) that are very impressed by the large room/desk/tons of hardware (compared to a laptop in other studios)

workflow: spent so much time on hardware before that it's more intuitive than mixing with the mouse (or assigning faders, knobs and loose them with updates etc).
monitoring/interfacing is mucho easier with the desk (all built in), especially if you do stereo and surround.

other: my new desk did cost me some money (a lot, actually...), yet i can also use it to mix live.
it will serve me well for another 10 years - best thing - without any updates or any other crap (all that isn't about music)! so nothing to worry about/gives me peace of mind...

and since the numbershifting is done mostly elsewhere, i can use dirt cheap laptops to record/edit the files.

Last edited by psycho_monkey; 21st February 2018 at 04:20 AM..
Old 20th February 2018
  #3
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The Elf's Avatar
I mixed many times on SSL, and still have SSL pre's, but I've been ITB for many years and I never looked back. If you know what you're doing it's of no consequence.
Old 20th February 2018
  #4
Gear Maniac
in a perfect world, i'd track on an old neve or helios and mix on an ssl with lots of cool outboard. spend a day mixing a song or two.

but...in reality.. can't imagine going back to that these days.

clients want and expect to come back a week, 2 weeks, etc later and make minor changes.

i don't want to go back to the days of recalling a 64 channel ssl and tons of outboard gear to bump up a vocal or make a few small tweaks.

clients don't want to pay for that time. i don't want to spend that time. the older i get, the more valuable my precious seconds become to me.

i was a long time analog holdout...but these days i'm far more interested in the value of my time.

digital is so close now to what i used to get on a large console.

at least for me. i tend to print the sounds i want when i'm tracking. i don't do a lot of fixing or changing while i mix.

for the most part, i can usually leave my faders at zero and have a pretty balanced mix.

i've found that by doing this, i can mix in the box and still get pretty great results.

i also like to employ some outboard gear while mixing at times using a hybrid approach. it really depends on the client and the project.

i will say that i've kind of been out of the game for about 7 years and the improvements in plugins during that time has kinda blown me away.

i've been going back and messing with mixes using some of the new uad and slate stuff...and i'm very pleased.

the fatso, distressor, ssl quad buss, api 2500 and new helios plugs on the uad platform are kinda blowing me away.

slate's stuff sounds great too.

i'm seeing myself much less likely to care about mixing and breaking all the tracks out on a large console. i can see setting up a hybrid setup with a summing mixer such as the new CAPI sumbuss or the api box.

it's incredible what can be done these days compared to even 10 years ago.
Old 20th February 2018
  #5
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p.s. regrets

i did regret to go from mci to itb - probably wouldn't have from ssl to itb
Old 20th February 2018
  #6
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanTan View Post
A month ago a producer which is a long time friend and client of mine has challenged me with mixing one of his productions completely ITB,

I took the challenge and it went pretty well, I was enjoying the total recall free life and have tried it on more productions with success, the clients were happy with the mixes, no one has said anything or noticed any difference,
I went on and mixed a few songs for a pop production for one of the major artists in my country, it's the third album I've been mixing for her and she haven't noticed any change as well and were very happy with the mixes.

So now, a month later I'm jumping between a few productions everyday without zero total recall time and without the help of my assistant which is a very new thing for me and I feel very "free" now.

I've began thinking about moving to do my mixing ITB and only keep my SSL Sigma for summing, a Bricasti M7, maybe an Eventide and of course my mastering outboard for the 2 Bus which is where I feel digital is still have to go a long way to replace.



Did any of you mixing engineers here made such move ?
Did you ever regret it ? if so:
why ?
sonics ?
clients who left ?
worflow ?




Some serious questions this time but it's 2018 and I'm considering some big moves
Not an SSL...but I did move from a 32 Channel Yamaha PM2000. I don't regret it now, but I am trying to figure out how to make a hybrid system work for a net gain of what I still miss in terms of sound.

I do mostly mastering with my own full digital suite I've been developing these days if I work for clients...and I'm mainly focused on software development/stress tests. But...I'm starting to rebuild around pro tools HD and a Prism Titan.

I think my test mixes are better than ever...it's just a matter of what analog chain will be on the 2Bus for me. I'm not even using external rackmount Time Based FX (*Vahalla, Waves, Slate here primarily).

The SSL has a draw...but I would worry about maintenance going forward. I would also want to put some money into the best website I could afford to have built for me if I was going public again. Really focusing on making it feel special on tablets, laptops and cell phones right out of the gate.
Old 20th February 2018
  #7
Thank you ! Keep it coming please :-)

The reason I was specific about SSL and not an analog desk in general is the total recall, I can recall the mix to a 100% but it takes time.. about 20 minuets for each recall, although the workflow may be a bit faster than ITB, recalling a song 6 times (common in pop productions) takes two unpaid hours alone
Old 21st February 2018
  #8
Lives for gear
Very interesting thread. If it's not too much to ask, I am currently fascinated by stereo widening. I always thought that the analogue consoles were part of that widening. Any tips tricks as to how that widening is achieved? It has become more than apparent to me that it is more than simply panning things hard L/R and using widening plugins. I have had some success with EQ, delay, mid-side techniques , but my mixes aren't as wide as I would like.

It all started when someone wanted me to record her vocals over Taylor Swifts "Blank Space". Not a huge Swift fan, but the width of the original recording blew me away and took me down that "widening" path. How are you guys doing that?
Old 21st February 2018
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
I have had some success with EQ, delay, mid-side techniques , but my mixes aren't as wide as I would like.

It all started when someone wanted me to record her vocals over Taylor Swifts "Blank Space". Not a huge Swift fan, but the width of the original recording blew me away and took me down that "widening" path. How are you guys doing that?
Serban Ghenea mixed that TS track you mention.

Serban has been ITB for at least 14yrs, long before ITB was considered "worthy" on forums like this, and has mixed more huge pop hits than probably anybody at this point. His discography is ridiculous..... 17 Grammy's, insane. Have a look at this: Welcome - Mixed by SERBAN GHENEA

I'm a former believer in the "my analog gear is doing something special" theory, who subsequently moved to 100% ITB. In hindsight I wish I could have skipped over a very long period of messing with consoles and summing etc only to end up back at ITB. I should have seen that if guys like Serban can do it, that the limiting factor isn't the choice of tool, it is ME.

I could tell you what I do, but everyone has a somewhat different strategy, and it's not necessarily a consistent thing. It depends a lot on the source material and arrangement. PM me if you want some ideas to mess with.

Last edited by bambamboom; 21st February 2018 at 01:22 AM..
Old 21st February 2018
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
Serban Ghenea mixed that TS track you mention.

Serban has been ITB for at least 14yrs, long before ITB was considered "worthy" on forums like this, and has mixed more huge pop hits than probably anybody at this point. His discography is ridiculous..... 17 Grammy's, insane. Have a look at this: Welcome - Mixed by SERBAN GHENEA

I'm a former believer in the "my analog gear is doing something special" theory, who subsequently moved to 100% ITB. In hindsight I wish I could have skipped over a very long period of messing with consoles and summing etc only to end up back at ITB. I should have seen that if guys like Serban can do it, that the limiting factor isn't the choice of tool, it is ME.

I could tell you what I do, but everyone has a somewhat different strategy, and it's not necessarily a consistent thing. It depends a lot on the source material and arrangement. PM me if you want some ideas to mess with.
Excellent! I will definitely be PM'ing you. Thanks!
Old 21st February 2018
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
Serban Ghenea mixed that TS track you mention.

Serban has been ITB for at least 14yrs, long before ITB was considered "worthy" on forums like this, and has mixed more huge pop hits than probably anybody at this point. His discography is ridiculous..... 17 Grammy's, insane. Have a look at this: Welcome - Mixed by SERBAN GHENEA

I'm a former believer in the "my analog gear is doing something special" theory, who subsequently moved to 100% ITB. In hindsight I wish I could have skipped over a very long period of messing with consoles and summing etc only to end up back at ITB. I should have seen that if guys like Serban can do it, that the limiting factor isn't the choice of tool, it is ME.

I could tell you what I do, but everyone has a somewhat different strategy, and it's not necessarily a consistent thing. It depends a lot on the source material and arrangement. PM me if you want some ideas to mess with.
Everybody "Thinks" Serban is mixing totally ITB... I been studying his mixes for over 20 years.. unless apple actually made him a unique computer.. There is no way in hell he mixes totally ITB.. There is NO WAY you can get the vocal sounds he gets just using the mix engine in the computer.. Now I do think he uses all plugins , but I am sure he stems....
Old 21st February 2018
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
Serban Ghenea mixed that TS track you mention.

Serban has been ITB for at least 14yrs, long before ITB was considered "worthy" on forums like this, and has mixed more huge pop hits than probably anybody at this point. His discography is ridiculous..... 17 Grammy's, insane. Have a look at this: Welcome - Mixed by SERBAN GHENEA

I'm a former believer in the "my analog gear is doing something special" theory, who subsequently moved to 100% ITB. In hindsight I wish I could have skipped over a very long period of messing with consoles and summing etc only to end up back at ITB. I should have seen that if guys like Serban can do it, that the limiting factor isn't the choice of tool, it is ME.

I could tell you what I do, but everyone has a somewhat different strategy, and it's not necessarily a consistent thing. It depends a lot on the source material and arrangement. PM me if you want some ideas to mess with.
I been speaking to a few heavy weigh mixer guys that are totally baffled by Serbians "sound" .. Serbian just ain't taking.. for a good reason.. its not just his EARS, this business IS Tools and Talent..

I can raise a vocal and try every plugin in the world and I will NEVER get near the sonic texture Serban gets .. He's got something up his sleeve, and I don't blame him for keeping quiet.. He found a unique method/tools that provides "better" results than ANY ITB guy
Old 21st February 2018
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo View Post
I been speaking to a few heavy weigh mixer guys that are totally baffled by Serbians "sound" .. Serbian just ain't taking.. for a good reason.. its not just his EARS, this business IS Tools and Talent..

I can raise a vocal and try every plugin in the world and I will NEVER get near the sonic texture Serban gets .. He's got something up his sleeve, and I don't blame him for keeping quiet.. He found a unique method/tools that provides "better" results than ANY ITB guy
Perhaps he is really going through a nice Neve or SSL mixer and just saying it was "ITB"
Old 21st February 2018
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo View Post
I can raise a vocal and try every plugin in the world and I will NEVER get near the sonic texture Serban gets .. He's got something up his sleeve

Yes, he has *EXPERIENCE* up his sleeve.....
The guy has mixed over 150 #1 singles and in the process of his long career has a gazillion hours of exclusively focused mixing experience. On top of this, he is working with uber-successful producers and music superstars who provide him with better quality tracks than most of us are accustomed to dealing with on a routine basis.

There are some lesser known projects he has done that are not nearly as hi-fi polished sounding... for instance the album "Armistice" by Mutemath, which sounds pretty analog - good album but not amazing sonics (though that lo-fi vibe is kind of what that band likes and the raw tracks were certainly not as polished as something like a Bruno Mars 24k magic etc). Mixed ITB, obvious use of creative distortion etc etc.
Old 21st February 2018
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
Yes, he has *EXPERIENCE* up his sleeve.....
The guy has mixed over 150 #1 singles and in the process of his long career has a gazillion hours of exclusively focused mixing experience. On top of this, he is working with uber-successful producers and music superstars who provide him with better quality tracks than most of us are accustomed to dealing with on a routine basis.

There are some lesser known projects he has done that are not nearly as hi-fi polished sounding... for instance the album "Armistice" by Mutemath, which sounds pretty analog - good album but not amazing sonics (though that lo-fi vibe is kind of what that band likes and the raw tracks were certainly not as polished as something like a Bruno Mars 24k magic etc). Mixed ITB, obvious use of creative distortion etc etc.
This is more than experience , a lot of my mixer friends that mix major artists have even more time in this business, and can't figure out what he's using..
Old 21st February 2018
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo View Post
Everybody "Thinks" Serban is mixing totally ITB... I been studying his mixes for over 20 years.. unless apple actually made him a unique computer.. There is no way in hell he mixes totally ITB.. There is NO WAY you can get the vocal sounds he gets just using the mix engine in the computer.. Now I do think he uses all plugins , but I am sure he stems....
I think that's just ability. The thing I take from his mixes are balance and attention to detail. Next time I speak to someone who mentions they've had tracks mixed by him I'll quiz further.

There's nothing I hear in his mixes that I've not heard in mixes from others. His skill is that he's got EVERYTHING pretty much spot on in every mix consistently.

"Mix Engine"...right. That's the last thing I'd be querying on a pop mix!
Old 21st February 2018
  #17
Gear Addict
 

Imho. If u think serban is totaly itb you need to find a new work..back in my hole
Old 21st February 2018
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea19837 View Post
Imho. If u think serban is totaly itb you need to find a new work..back in my hole
Or you just need to get better at mixing ITB perhaps?

I really don't know. Or care that much if I'm honest. So many good results ITB these days, it's foolish to think that just because something sounds good hardware was used somewhere!

Serban is a very experienced mix engineer working in what must be a very well tuned space, primarily working in a genre that contains a lot of electronic and synthesized elements, and mostly coming from top producers (at least the tracks we're discussing). Is it surprising he could get excellent results without hardware?
Old 21st February 2018
  #19
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dights's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Next time I speak to someone who mentions they've had tracks mixed by him I'll quiz further.
I'd be interested to know, as I've never spoken to anyone who has assisted or attended a mix session with Serban. He's always been touted as the big mixer who mixes in the box.

For me there's a big difference between "mixing in the box" and "summing in the box".

I always wondered whether that statement came from the big mixer mentality of saying he mixes in the box because he doesn't use a desk anymore?

Whilst it wouldn't shock me, it would definitely surprise me if his mixes never left the computer with no outboard chain anywhere... no vocal chain, no posh reverb, no mix buss chain?

For me that sort of thing is really easy to print/recall if it's workflow you're worried about.
Old 21st February 2018
  #20
No major credits here but I mixed with a hybrid setup for a few years but moved to itb since the release of slate-stress which was the first plugin that i felt sounded like Hw on drums. You have to do a few workarounds since itb is so clean. Adding Saturation is a must but it is easy to overdo it and then have to back it off later in the mix process. Saturation, the pleasent softening of transients is something you get for free in the analogue world.

Mentioning Serban, from what i heard there is allot of delicous HW involved in postprod atleast from the tracks from the Max Martin team. I tend to use HW and print both in the tracking but also in mix mode. Still there is 0 recall time once you printed the tracks which is nice. And the same old if you use quality gear on the way in it is much easier getting the job done especially working Itb.

Good luck!
Old 21st February 2018
  #21
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gainreduction's Avatar
 

I went ITB 10 years ago and it's the best thing I ever did. Sonically, workflow-wise and financially.

I could never get the results I get ITB on an analog console. I do a lot of very subtle things in the background to create depth and dimension in my mixes, that would simply be impossible in the analog domain. I use a lot of automation that helps me with musical expression in my mixes in a way that would be impossible in the analog domain. For my work and my style of mixing, analog just can't do it.

When it comes to sonics there is absolutely nothing ITB that stands in the way of creating an absolutely stellar sounding mix if you have the chops and use the right tools.

In 2018 it is close to impossible to mix full time, commercially for a living, in the analog domain. Everyone expects you to recall a mix instantly at any point - even years after it has been mastered and released. Everyone wants to listen to the mixes for days or weeks before committing. It is the norm these days.

It is very common to edit songs in the final stages of a mix. Take out 4 bars or remove half a verse or whatever makes the song flow better. Automation on an analog console would obviously not adjust to that edit.

I know it's a provocative thing to say around here but mixing commercially in the analog domain in 2018 is making things very hard, complicated and timeconsuming for yourself. I'd say it's close to impossible to pull off.

I split my time between two rooms. One of them is my own ITB mixroom/project studio and the other is a Duality-room. In the Duality-room I mix... 100% ITB.
Old 21st February 2018
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by gainreduction View Post
In 2018 it is close to impossible to mix full time, commercially for a living, in the analog domain. Everyone expects you to recall a mix instantly at any point - even years after it has been mastered and released. Everyone wants to listen to the mixes for days or weeks before committing. It is the norm these days.

It is very common to edit songs in the final stages of a mix. Take out 4 bars or remove half a verse or whatever makes the song flow better. Automation on an analog console would obviously not adjust to that edit.

I know it's a provocative thing to say around here but mixing commercially in the analog domain in 2018 is making things very hard, complicated and timeconsuming for yourself. I'd say it's close to impossible to pull off.

I split my time between two rooms. One of them is my own ITB mixroom/project studio and the other is a Duality-room. In the Duality-room I mix... 100% ITB.
I agree, I get calls sometimes years after a song have been mixed from clients asking for stems for remixes, TV mix version for a show on TV, changing words on the vocals etc.

I mix on an AWS 900 the last six years so I can recall a mix to a 100% but it's indeed time consuming and nobody's paying for that time..

I'm not worried about sonics because I plan keeping my analog mastering chain and an SSL summing box so if I ever feel I have to process something OTB i'll still can.

There's another thing that bothers me and it's probably my main concern,
Every major mixing engineer has a kind of a public image and I'm a bit afraid that the SSL analog mixing guy my clients are used to say they work with would change different from this point on and maybe I won't be able to get as much mixing jobs as I do now, I may be completely wrong here of course.. that's why I'm asking :-)

Serban is being mentioned a lot in this thread and for a very good reason, If one would analyze why people are talking about him so much and are very excited about him and his trade is that he is considered to be the ITB wiz who could make great sounding #1 hits mixing only ITB, this is his public image in the industry and that's great for him, he did it in the right time, but if tomorrow Serban would buy a vintage Neve to mix on would he still be considered a wiz ?

What would happen to CLA or Brauer's careers if in the next picture you'll see them they won't be surrounded with classic high end stuff in the background but only a studio desk with a mouse and keyboard on it ?
Where will all the myths about CLA's great vocal sound coming from a top secret mod in a capacitor in his BS 1176 go to if he'll use Waves plugin instead ? isn't a part his legendary status comes from his unachievable very expensive setup and worflow ?
Old 21st February 2018
  #23
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TanTan View Post
I agree, I get calls sometimes years after a song have been mixed from clients asking for stems for remixes, TV mix version for a show on TV, changing words on the vocals etc.

I mix on an AWS 900 the last six years so I can recall a mix to a 100% but it's indeed time consuming and nobody's paying for that time..

I'm not worried about sonics because I plan keeping my analog mastering chain and an SSL summing box so if I ever feel I have to process something OTB i'll still can.

There's another thing that bothers me and it's probably my main concern,
Every major mixing engineer has a kind of a public image and I'm a bit afraid that the SSL analog mixing guy my clients are used to say they work with would change different from this point on and maybe I won't be able to get as much mixing jobs as I do now, I may be completely wrong here of course.. that's why I'm asking :-)

Serban is being mentioned a lot in this thread and for a very good reason, If one would analyze why people are talking about him so much and are very excited about him and his trade is that he is considered to be the ITB wiz who could make great sounding #1 hits mixing only ITB, this is his public image in the industry and that's great for him, he did it in the right time, but if tomorrow Serban would buy a vintage Neve to mix on would he still be considered a wiz ?

What would happen to CLA or Brauer's careers if in the next picture you'll see them they won't be surrounded with classic high end stuff in the background but only a studio desk with a mouse and keyboard on it ?
Where will all the myths about CLA's great vocal sound coming from a top secret mod in a capacitor in his BS 1176 go to if he'll use Waves plugin instead ? isn't a part his legendary status comes from his unachievable very expensive setup and worflow ?
Wouldn't it be better for people to know you as a great mix engineer despite of what you use? If you can create great mixes ITB or OTB why would it matter what you used to achieve you goal? IMHO Serban is not a great mixer because he mixes ITB, he is a great mixer because nobody around can pocket a mix like him and make it jump out of the speakers ITB or OTB!

I personally don't think CLA or Michael Brauer would suffer if they mixed all ITB as long as they can deliver their signature sound, clients are paying for the experience and ears, this has been proved by other great mixers.

It sounds like people like what you do and will like it no matter how you achieved your results, as you have already suggested by your clients not noticing that you mixed their project ITB, this alone suggests they are paying for your talents and not the SSL which seems more like an observation than a selling point, I could be wrong!
Old 21st February 2018
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
Wouldn't it be better for people to know you as a great mix engineer despite of what you use?
Of course it would ! I'm just not sure to a 100% that you can separate between them after many years in the industry working on successful songs you have created in a certain way

Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
If you can create great mixes ITB or OTB why would it matter what you used to achieve you goal? IMHO Serban is not a great mixer because he mixes ITB, he is a great mixer because nobody around can pocket a mix like him and make it jump out of the speakers ITB or OTB!
For me it doesn't matter and I couldn't agree more, What I'm asking is if it won't make a difference for the clients who would consider hire you while you work on the same platform as a bedroom producer while competing against other mixers

Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
I personally don't think CLA or Michael Brauer would suffer if they mixed all ITB as long as they can deliver their signature sound, clients are paying for the experience and ears, this has been proved by other great mixers.
So in your opinion, why don't they ? I'm sure they are being asked for as many mix recalls as I do and paying as much maintenance and staff costs as we all do

Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
It sounds like people like what you do and will like it no matter how you achieved your results, as you have already suggested by your clients not noticing that you mixed their project ITB, this alone suggests they are paying for your talents and not the SSL which seems more like an observation than a selling point, I could be wrong!
I think people are hiring me because they like what I do and because of my chart credits, but in the same time there is always another guy they like with a comparable chart credits and I think that's where the gear start to make a difference, I may be completely wrong though !

As you see I'm so focused in working on the music I've kinda lost the big picture perspective so I'm looking to brainstorm with my smart friends and colleagues :-)
Old 21st February 2018
  #25
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gainreduction's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
Wouldn't it be better for people to know you as a great mix engineer despite of what you use? If you can create great mixes ITB or OTB why would it matter what you used to achieve you goal? IMHO Serban is not a great mixer because he mixes ITB, he is a great mixer because nobody around can pocket a mix like him and make it jump out of the speakers ITB or OTB!

I personally don't think CLA or Michael Brauer would suffer if they mixed all ITB as long as they can deliver their signature sound, clients are paying for the experience and ears, this has been proved by other great mixers.

It sounds like people like what you do and will like it no matter how you achieved your results, as you have already suggested by your clients not noticing that you mixed their project ITB, this alone suggests they are paying for your talents and not the SSL which seems more like an observation than a selling point, I could be wrong!
I agree!
Old 21st February 2018
  #26
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dbjp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TanTan View Post
Of course it would ! I'm just not sure to a 100% that you can separate between them after many years in the industry working on successful songs you have created in a certain way



For me it doesn't matter and I couldn't agree more, What I'm asking is if it won't make a difference for the clients who would consider hire you while you work on the same platform as a bedroom producer while competing against other mixers



So in your opinion, why don't they ? I'm sure they are being asked for as many mix recalls as I do and paying as much maintenance and staff costs as we all do



I think people are hiring me because they like what I do and because of my chart credits, but in the same time there is always another guy they like with a comparable chart credits and I think that's where the gear start to make a difference, I may be completely wrong though !

As you see I'm so focused in working on the music I've kinda lost the big picture perspective so I'm looking to brainstorm with my smart friends and colleagues :-)
I think your concern is justified, with a lot of counter arguments being idealism rather than experience. You may well lose some clients that are more into fashion, if you know what I mean. It matters to some of them for when they talk/boast to others how their track was mixed, and by how I mean what equipment.
Why don’t you get a close relationship going with a studio that has an AWS or better? Yeah, you’d have to charge more for those occasions but the option is there should clients require an analogue desk. I take it you’ll have some fund available should you sell your board. Why not get some exotic outboards and have an impressive wall with those there and make that your ‘wow factor’ for the fashion focused clients? Would that make them happy? It did for me years ago when I decided to go all vintage with a silly assortment of comps and eqs. Again, not for most of your clients but for those that want the extra fashionable bits.
Old 21st February 2018
  #27
Lives for gear
 

An obvious trend exists toward ITB recording and post production work. Staying on top of the very fast moving "state of the art" digital processing developments has become very difficult however, to this end, it is important to mention the viable DAW options that are now available. I work with a Studio one 3.5 DAW and Digigrid/Waves LV1 for both live concert and studio recording. Everything is captured by the Digico "D" pres to a Waves server one (with a plethora of outstanding plug-ins) to a custom ADK desk top computer controlled by two 24 inch dell usb 3 touch screens. (one for capture processing the other for the DAW multi track processing) I do it all at FP32/96K and do not miss knobs, faders, DBX & Dolby noise reduction processing, razor blading tape and hauling around a boat load of outboards one little bit.
Hugh
Old 21st February 2018
  #28
Lives for gear
 
H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TanTan View Post
So in your opinion, why don't they ? I'm sure they are being asked for as many mix recalls as I do and paying as much maintenance and staff costs as we all do

)
On CLA/Brauer, like anything it is a personal position one they feel they can maintain and their clients willing to go along with! Good ITB mixers coming from long years on analogue made the transition progressively, not over night, I liken it to swimming in the shallows for a while before you can swim in the deep, then they proved it with their track record mixing ITB to labels and clients.

Having a console makes sense if you need it for tracking as it's very convenient and a good justification for owning it! IF you feel you do better mixes with a console that is another good justification for keeping it. If you're satisfied with ITB results, I mean you and not your clients and don't need a console for tracking you may consider to ween in the ITB approach over a period of time and prove your track record with that approach! Good luck with it Tan Tan.
Old 21st February 2018
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanTan View Post
I think people are hiring me because they like what I do and because of my chart credits, but in the same time there is always another guy they like with a comparable chart credits and I think that's where the gear start to make a difference, I may be completely wrong though !
In today's age where you now have all these guys who used to just be names on the record jacket that only recording nerds cared about getting all of this airtime on videos and YouTube showing off their craft... Most of those guys whether ITB or OTB are doing all those interviews surrounded by the hardware that got them there, whether it's turned on or not.

You could at least keep your console/hardware for the impression if it makes sense. A DAW on a desk just doesn't give an artist that feeling of "something special is happening". Lights, meters and even faders take all of that potential up a notch when you're an artist. I've experienced that feeling myself hundreds of times over years of recording in studios. There's no trackball made today that's going to give an artist that rush when walking into a studio.
Old 21st February 2018
  #30
Solid State Logic
 
Jim@SSL's Avatar
 

These things are all tools. While many of us may describe them (or our use of them) more honestly as "toys", for those that make a living by making music these things are tools.

A tool addresses human needs by amplifying human ability.

The question(s) here is(are) which tool allows you to to do your job with the greatest efficiency and/or the most pleasing results. Note, I class "results" here not only as the final product but also the pleasure a craftsman takes from the process of producing.

You can make great-sounding records ITB. You might not enjoy relentless single-finger action controlling a mouse to do it. I for one find that I get to the "85% done" level of a mix much faster with a console and the muscle memory I have (and what you hear CLA et al talking about) gets me MIXING, not editing, not prepping, not crossfading and comping, but MIXING much faster than I can ITB.

Both computers and consoles are tools.

If you are in the position that you own a console and you own a computer and you get paid the same for doing the job on either, I would always choose the one I have the most enjoyment while earning from my learned craft. Life isn't just about getting paid for recall time, it is about enjoying what we do with the time we have chosen to commit to it.

That, and charge for more than 1 round of mix notes.
If we were all brave enough to do it then people would realise your time is a valuable commodity, a professional service, and something that deserves payment. Be a craftsman and be proud of the value of it.

Whatever tool you choose.
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