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Did you move from mixing on an SSL console to mixing ITB and ever regret the move ? Digital Converters
Old 14th June 2018
  #721
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Forgive me for going off topic a min, but while we're all talking mixing/plugins etc... What do you guys recommend as a software RTA. (Or do you recommend one vs a standalone?) I'm thinking if I grab a HDMI lilliput, I can use my tracking computer for printing stems/mixes and as a RTA on a separate monitor while I'm mixing.

I've looked at the meter TC electtronics has, but it seems I could do the same thing with plugins on my free computer.

I"m still deciding where I'll put my display. I could split the Dcommand and make the middle area of the desk absorptive, with the monitor under my speakers.

Or I could leave the dcommand main/faders sections together with the monitor off to the side of my desk.

I'm still laying it out. But this is what I'm picturing. Hopefully, I won't be outside the sweet spot too much. I picked a dcommand over a dcontrol because I wanted a smaller footprint.
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Did you move from mixing on an SSL console to mixing ITB and ever regret the move ?-capture1.jpg   Did you move from mixing on an SSL console to mixing ITB and ever regret the move ?-capture2.jpg  
Old 14th June 2018
  #722
Lives for gear
 

The best RTA I've found is the one built into Samplitude / Sequoia. Makes sense since it is geared towards mastering. But I would also like to find something good as a VST or AAX plugin.
Old 14th June 2018
  #723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Showcase View Post
Hehe, ye I know, dont take me too seriously on that line

but as i read a famous mixer once said, and I always tell my clients this before mixing, you should know... "Every mixpass is one more step towards boredom" it helps
When it comes to nitpicking - I definitely agree!

But there’s more than one way to mix a song well, and if you’re working unattended, sometimes you simply don’t “get” the client’s vision the first time.

With an attended mix, yeah if you’re having to do more than one or two revisions, something is up. I’ll tell you how that works out if I ever do an attended mix again!

Although now I think of it - I mixed an EP with the artists present last year I think - it’s called nocturnal tapes, on Spotify etc - we did mixes, then a couple of recalls at the end of the session, then maybe 2-3 further recall tweaks. Possibly the last 1-2 recalls were unnecessary in the grand scheme. However, the time taken versus client satisfaction payoff was huge, and I don’t think they made the record any more or less boring!
Old 14th June 2018
  #724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason rocks View Post
Have you found you can stay in your sweet spot on a 24 channel mixer?
Depends on the mixer.

Plus, there will always be console reflections.
Old 14th June 2018
  #725
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Mike what was your methodology in testing plugins for evidence of comb filtering?
Somewhere, maybe in my post, the terminology got a little off.

As far as the comb filtering, I could hear it.

And in the case of the one I noticed it with, after finding out the cause, I wrote the designer, and they've since recoded the plugin and the problem has been eliminated.


The comb filtering came using a plugin in parallel with a dry aux.

It's been a while, and I can't remember what tipped me off as to it not being an ADC issue. At one point I asked on my FB timeline and a bunch of people insisted it was an ADC issue and I ended up demoing the Eventide precision time alignment plugin which was great.


What I ended up doing was taking a single tone generator. The sending it to two separate aux tracks, one with a plugin and one with nothing.

The outputs of those two auxes where summed into another aux or master fader with a high res meter.

I then swept the tone and watched the meter.

I was very carful to make sure that thresholds were at their max and ratios were 1:1 so that there were no dynamics happening.

With EQs, everything was set flat.


It was clear that there was a phase shift happening in certain plugins that was causing comb filtering when summed with a dry aux.

Boz Millar explained that there are certain plugin designs that don't use linear phase filters during the reconstruction stage and they cause a phase shift in the high end.

When it came to the EQs everyone was quick to point out that EQs are phase shift. The thing is, what was happening shouldn't happen when the EQ was set flat.


There was also a very predictable pattern as to which manufacturer's plugins would exhibit this behavior and which wouldn't based on the way I knew their high end to sound.

Like I said, if you want to understand Tokyo Dawn, just take a quick listen to the high end and you'll immediately grasp the vibe of what you're working with.


I guess in theory it would be possible to argue that there was some kind of latency that even the Eventide plugin couldn't fix.

But I had plenty of plugins where I could sweep the sine wave through the full frequency range and the meter wouldn't move. Whatever the actual explanation is, there's really no need for me to use plugins that exhibit that behavior in 2018. So I stopped using any that did that and was immediately happier with my results.


A lot of my frustration with plugin EQs was gone after. Between that and Oz's explanation I'm very sure that it's phase shift due to the lack of the non-linear phase filter. I think this may only be an issue with plugins that do oversampling.

In the end, I don't really care. I'm really happy with the ones that were left when the dust settled.
Old 14th June 2018
  #726
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Forgive me for going off topic a min, but while we're all talking mixing/plugins etc... What do you guys recommend as a software RTA. (Or do you recommend one vs a standalone?) I'm thinking if I grab a HDMI lilliput, I can use my tracking computer for printing stems/mixes and as a RTA on a separate monitor while I'm mixing.

I've looked at the meter TC electtronics has, but it seems I could do the same thing with plugins on my free computer.

I"m still deciding where I'll put my display. I could split the Dcommand and make the middle area of the desk absorptive, with the monitor under my speakers.

Or I could leave the dcommand main/faders sections together with the monitor off to the side of my desk.

I'm still laying it out. But this is what I'm picturing. Hopefully, I won't be outside the sweet spot too much. I picked a dcommand over a dcontrol because I wanted a smaller footprint.
If you mean a frequency analyser, I use the one in DMG Equilibrium. It is very good IMO.

Alistair
Old 11th July 2018
  #727
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
All 25 pages of this have been very interesting......

I started in the late 80's on tape and small format mixers, I then went to 8 bus mixers and ADAT's, next it was all ITB with Ensoniq PARIS. My first national single was recorded and mixed in PARIS and I soundscaned around 900,000 on indie albums work in PARIS over the next 10 years. In 2007 I moved to Atlanta and spent years running Pro Tools SSL 4KE, 4KG, 9KJ, C100, C200, Duality, and AWS rooms, logging thousands of SSL hours and another 3 million soundscan with more national singles worked on. I left the full time engineering grind to pursue production again and have been back ITB for the past 5 years. So my last 30 years have been a back and forth between ITB and hardware and I've been successful both ways. Tools are tools, it always the operator using the tool.

We all have our sound and workflow preference and IMHO there is not better, just different for our needs and goals.

I'm finding some sort of hybrid workflow works best for me moving forward, as in the best of both worlds........ but I do miss an SSL console every day for my personal inspiration and enjoyment.

As always to each their own.

Last edited by Will The Weirdo; 11th July 2018 at 11:36 PM..
Old 14th October 2018
  #728
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
Serban Ghenea mixed that TS track you mention.

Serban has been ITB for at least 14yrs, long before ITB was considered "worthy" on forums like this, and has mixed more huge pop hits than probably anybody at this point. His discography is ridiculous..... 17 Grammy's, insane. Have a look at this: Welcome - Mixed by SERBAN GHENEA

I'm a former believer in the "my analog gear is doing something special" theory, who subsequently moved to 100% ITB. In hindsight I wish I could have skipped over a very long period of messing with consoles and summing etc only to end up back at ITB. I should have seen that if guys like Serban can do it, that the limiting factor isn't the choice of tool, it is ME.

I could tell you what I do, but everyone has a somewhat different strategy, and it's not necessarily a consistent thing. It depends a lot on the source material and arrangement. PM me if you want some ideas to mess with.
Just checked out Mr. Ghenea's website. There are a lot of popular records he mixed. Thanks for posting his website.
Old 14th October 2018
  #729
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
I'm finding some sort of hybrid workflow works best for me moving forward, as in the best of both worlds........ but I do miss an SSL console every day for my personal inspiration and enjoyment.
Just an update..... I picked up an API The Box mini console to work hybrid and I love it for me and my workflow. I could easily work all digital or all analogue at any time but I prefer the best of both worlds moving forward.
Old 7th April 2019
  #730
Here is the best example of why working with an SSl console is great and much better than in the box. Check out the work flow, instant gratification, and awesome sound.
YouTube
Old 9th April 2019
  #731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Bucci View Post
Here is the best example of why working with an SSl console is great and much better than in the box. Check out the work flow, instant gratification, and awesome sound.
YouTube
*for some*
Old 9th April 2019
  #732
Gear Addict
 

Old 13th April 2019
  #733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Bucci View Post
Here is the best example of why working with an SSl console is great and much better than in the box. Check out the work flow, instant gratification, and awesome sound.
YouTube

I'm guessing you didn't watch all the way to the end where you can see that it's almost entirely premixed ITB.
Old 13th April 2019
  #734
Lives for gear
 
ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
I'm guessing you didn't watch all the way to the end where you can see that it's almost entirely premixed ITB.
I've heard those stems before - they're already covered in all of Mutt's and Mike Shipman's work. They're loaded with effects before he ever got his hands on them.

I've worked on consoles before and I do agree that they're a lot faster, more intuitive, and a lot more satisfying to get the mix done on (or at least they are for me) but in that video, that dude was really playing up a lot for the camera.

He took Mutt's, pretty much finished tracks, put plugs on them, then bussed a few out and sprinkled some garlic salt on them and made it look like he did a crazy mix. I felt like he played up a lot for the camera. Plus, it got me dizzy as hell. Some reason I could watch porn like that. Mixing? Made me dizzy.
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