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2 way active sealed monitors Studio Monitors
Old 20th February 2018
  #1
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2 way active sealed monitors

Hi, does anybody knows, if there is an active monitor of 2 ways, sealed??

Cheers!!!
Old 20th February 2018
  #2
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ATC SCM20 ASL, Unity Audio

I’m on SCM20s here, best compact 2-way speaker I’ve used.
Old 20th February 2018
  #3
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I've also used the ATC SCM20ASL and can say they are excellent. I am always on the lookout for a killer deal on a used pair of the 20s for use in a smaller room apart from where I use SCM50ASL (ported) in my main system.
Old 20th February 2018
  #4
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The problem (for me) with the ATC SCM20ASL is that it could never be my only pair of monitors, more like a secondary pair. The reason is that it’s seriously weak in the lows, it’s rated at 80hz @ -2dB and that’s evident when you hear them in action. But, for a secondary pair of monitors, I find them pretty expensive, but that’s from my point of view. If I had all the money in the world, that would not be an issue anymore.

If I had to pick a sealed 2-way, I’m pretty sure I would get the Unity Audio Super Rock, really liked them a lot when I auditioned them. They are still on my radar for my next studio build (among others).
Old 21st February 2018
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-2db at 80hz doesn’t really tell you much, you need to know what sort of slope that’s a part of.

Personally I find the bass on my SCM20s pretty extraordinary. While the bass from barefoots will rattle the windows while the SCM20s won’t, I’d much rather make decisions on the SCM20s (I’ve done direct comparisons).
Old 21st February 2018
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexK View Post
-2db at 80hz doesn’t really tell you much, you need to know what sort of slope that’s a part of.

Personally I find the bass on my SCM20s pretty extraordinary. While the bass from barefoots will rattle the windows while the SCM20s won’t, I’d much rather make decisions on the SCM20s (I’ve done direct comparisons).
Agreed. I was quite surprised at the bass from the 20s. I almost refrained from the 50s because the 20s were so good. Of course, I do not want to start a war between the 20s and 50s, and your mileage may vary.

Even if you don't buy them it may be a good idea to test the 20s. I'd be surprised if another similar design produces as much in the bottom end. If I am wrong then testing them should provide a good benchmark for the small sealed design you seek.
Old 22nd February 2018
  #7
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The ATC seems pretty good, and the crossover filter is second order, with less artifacts in the phase.

But due the small woofer without a bass reflex, allows only a few low end Hertzs to be reproduced.

Maybe it is for purposes like the old NS10M just to check the mix in detail, but I think that you may need to use another pair of monitors or just a subwoofer...
Old 23rd February 2018
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexK View Post
-2db at 80hz doesn’t really tell you much, you need to know what sort of slope that’s a part of.

Personally I find the bass on my SCM20s pretty extraordinary. While the bass from barefoots will rattle the windows while the SCM20s won’t, I’d much rather make decisions on the SCM20s (I’ve done direct comparisons).
I checked the specifications after I auditioned them, because I was curious about the frequency response. Suffice to say, I wasn’t surprised to see it’s rated 80hz @ -2dB. I could literally not hear some low bassline notes in a familiar song, the lowest notes simply disappeared completely, which makes it difficult to mix it in my opinion.

I guess I’m spoiled with the Event Opals. Every bit as good in the mids and highs, superior in the lows and more SPL if needed. But that’s just my opinion, I’m not saying my opinion is a fact. Maybe the fact that I heared these SCM20s in a above average sized room has much influence how the lows are reproduced. In a smaller room with the monitors a bit closer might change a lot.

In the end, it’s the room and the monitoring chain that can make a huge difference.
Old 23rd February 2018
  #9
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Yes, SCM20s are great second pair speakers, actually the best second pair speakers. Great mid resolution and very nice sound. I had them and had SCM25s as well and I greatly prefered SCM20s. But yes, they are severely lacking the low end for any critical decison down there, that's why without sub they are useles as main pair of speakers.
Old 23rd February 2018
  #10
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Well, what can I say. I’m mixing in just SCM20s here and have no problems at all judging what’s going on down to ~30ish. Can’t say I’d ever think of them in the same way as my NS10s, although they are both sealed.

I would agree that in some rooms you may want a sub if you’re after a bit of party time though...

Mids (and now HF) are like no other 2-way speaker I’ve used, better even than many more expensive three-ways I’ve come across...
Old 23rd February 2018
  #11
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Acoustic Energy AE22 fit the bill - not sure they're still in production tho......

Also the older PMCs (tb2, result 6 etc)
Old 23rd February 2018
  #12
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All PMC speakers use transmission lines.
Old 23rd February 2018
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexK View Post
Well, what can I say. I’m mixing in just SCM20s here and have no problems at all judging what’s going on down to ~30ish. Can’t say I’d ever think of them in the same way as my NS10s, although they are both sealed.

I would agree that in some rooms you may want a sub if you’re after a bit of party time though...

Mids (and now HF) are like no other 2-way speaker I’ve used, better even than many more expensive three-ways I’ve come across...
It is not about party time, it is about the fact that you do not get accurate picture what is happening below 70Hz. And with most modern music it is important to get an accurate and balanced information about this area. I have definitely been missing this with SCM20s and other references were needed to sort this out. For mixing acoustic music they are ok. For orchestral they lack the lower octaves. For modern styles they lack as well. But in a range that they represend, they definitely are superb!

But is is the same with Amphion One15 as far as low end is concerned...they are lacking in this area. It is just that their midrange is nowhere as good as ATCs.
Old 23rd February 2018
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
It is not about party time, it is about the fact that you do not get accurate picture what is happening below 70Hz. And with most modern music it is important to get an accurate and balanced information about this area. I have definitely been missing this with SCM20s and other references were needed to sort this out. For mixing acoustic music they are ok. For orchestral they lack the lower octaves. For modern styles they lack as well. But in a range that they represend, they definitely are superb!

But is is the same with Amphion One15 as far as low end is concerned...they are lacking in this area. It is just that their midrange is nowhere as good as ATCs.
Well sure, a 2-way nearfield is not going to give you the same bottom octave as a big pair of mains, but I still maintain that I can judge the bottom end better on my SCM20s than (for example) Barefoots.

I use my 20s in MANY rooms and I never find the bottom end an issue except when I’m trying to impress clients with loud playback of some kinds of music...
Old 24th February 2018
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20s are the best for mix translation.
even better when paired with their 15inch sub
Old 26th February 2018
  #16
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This could be a good place to mention that sealed boxes like the SCM 20 have a very predictable smooth 12dB octave roll off. Ported boxes have a different roll off behavior. With a port, after the LF boost peak, there's a rapid roll off. Might be 24dB or 48dB per octave. So it is possible that if your bass port peak is at 80Hz, you could have actually less bass at 40Hz than a sealed box that started to roll off at 80Hz.

So what AlexK is describing could be that he really DOES hear LF stuff down in the 50-40Hz range, its just down 12db- 15dB. With a ported box, you get this boost, to make it sound like you have more bass around the peak, but below that you might actually have less.

Plus peaks from ports are rarely translatable.

Brad
Old 27th February 2018
  #17
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The 20s are ridiculously good and reliable for mixing, and for what you get I consider them cheap as dirt. Brad is spot on with his observations.
Old 27th February 2018
  #18
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I used them quite a few years, yes they are great and as sealed cabinet speaker, they have the properties mentioned by Brad, that is slow roll of below the driver cut-off frequency. You can hear down to 40Hz with them, but hearing -18dB down there doesn't helps you a thing. I can also hear on Yamaha NS10 down to 40Hz at -20dB, but this is of no help for the actual use down there.

Scm20s are great speakers, the best small speakers actually, but without subwoofer IMHO they are not useful for contemporary pop music or for mastering.
Old 27th February 2018
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
I used them quite a few years, yes they are great and as sealed cabinet speaker, they have the properties mentioned by Brad, that is slow roll of below the driver cut-off frequency. You can hear down to 40Hz with them, but hearing -18dB down there doesn't helps you a thing. I can also hear on Yamaha NS10 down to 40Hz at -20dB, but this is of no help for the actual use down there.

Scm20s are great speakers, the best small speakers actually, but without subwoofer IMHO they are not useful for contemporary pop music or for mastering.

We developed the SubPros 12 for this exact reason. Ideal is a pair, directly under the 20s. About $5k pair, powered: gets you to 20Hz easy, to 8hz if you want. You can run your 20s full range or use the filter in the sub at 95Hz (12dB/Octave) and you'll get a bit more output from the SCM20A. All analog processing in the sub, can't mess it up easily, phase is very consistent as this too is a sealed box, has polarity switch and usually you need this when used with 20s on the floor and /or behind the 20s. We have a muting pedal too, this is obviously only useful when 20s are full range. You need a mute pedal for each sub.

Studio Sub 12 High End Subwoofer

Brad
Old 27th February 2018
  #20
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Originally Posted by duckoff View Post
Acoustic Energy AE22 fit the bill - not sure they're still in production tho......

Also the older PMCs (tb2, result 6 etc)
Theyre not sadly
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