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12,000 $ monitors suggestion ? Studio Monitors
Old 9th February 2018
  #1
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12,000 $ monitors suggestion ?

Hi guys !!

I'm new here and this is my first post

I'm searching for a pair of monitors for mixing, mastering and some production !

My list went down to this :

1) Genelec 8351 or 8260A

2) Amphion One18 & BaseOne25 System

3) Kii Three

4 )ATC SCM45A Pro

My budget is around the sum of 12,000 $

My room is 5,3m x 4,2m x2,2m (17,38 ft x 13,78 x 7,22 ft )

I plan to do some acoustic treatment for early reflections , ceiling ( clouds ) , bass traps in every corner and a large skyline diffuser on the back wall !!!

So, please share your opinions and experience with the monitors in the list !

Thank You !!!
Old 9th February 2018
  #2
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Nice budget, nice list.

Some here are fans of Barefoots; I have no experience with them, but the way they are talked about, they are prolly worth adding to your list.

Also worth adding are the Geithains.

But please do yourself a favor, and don't depend on an opinion from anyone other than yourself. Monitors are a very personal thing, and there is no right nor wrong - esp in that price range. Your best bet is to audition the monitors in your space. Preferably after there is at least some treatment. You can then see what works best for you in your env.,, and make a proper decision.

Cheers.
Old 9th February 2018
  #3
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And add Dutch&Dutch & ...
Old 9th February 2018
  #4
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12,000? We could almost buy or own ship with that!
Old 9th February 2018
  #5
And KH420
Old 9th February 2018
  #6
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Jantex's Avatar
 

I absolutely agree that you should try them out before buying, because no one could say what you'll prefer and what will work in your room. My bias would be towards two on the list: Kii Threes and Genelecs, they will be usable in medicore room, but of course still will benefit from the great room with great dimensions.

ATCs are great, but phisically pretty huge and require a really great room to shine otherwise they can sound disappointing (it is not their fault, they are traditional active speakers without any room compensation).
Old 9th February 2018
  #7
You don’t say what you are coming from to get an idea of where you are in your journey.

Also, in a room that size I think it might be wiser to get the treatment in first, measuring with the monitors you have, before you start laying out big-ish money on the monitors. I have found that treatment is generally left to last( because its not sexy like gear) and you run out of budget, leaving yourself in a poor sounding room where you are not getting the value from the monitoring you bought.

My $0.02
Old 9th February 2018
  #8
Gear Addict
 

You have a really low ceiling. Add in some treatment, you end up with 190-195cm usable height. You should invest in professional advice to get it right, or you'll be paying top dollar for nothing. Consider cutting your monitors budget in half if you have to, $6000 it's still great for what you can get if the acoustics are right. Best!
Old 9th February 2018
  #9
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duno about others: i' ve been using different systems for years and always have two systems running to compare, whether it's tannoy/genelec or quested/k+h.

i find one system being larger and one with/out sub also helps (and no: i don't always end up mixing on the larger system)

finally, i think money is very well spent on dsp, especially in smaller rooms...
Old 9th February 2018
  #10
Gear Nut
 

Just got the brand new Adam S3H's, the new Adam S series is really very impressive particularly the s3h's definately worth checking out


Also can confirm have always been VERY impressed with Gentians

Also cant help but notice the ATC SCM25a's arent on your list but probably worth a look at

Barefoots are also well within your price range, I have just always found them a little hard, I found that ear fatigue was a BIG issue for me with the Barefoots
Old 9th February 2018
  #11
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cheu78's Avatar
As other already said:
Treat your room well first. Then check the monitors in YOUR room.

I'd probably go for the scm45 if it was me, but would test at least another pair.. and compare..
KH420 are also worth a listen.

I'd add the SCM25 to that list. (Heck even scm50, but for the size the 25 could be really good).
Test the genelec 8351 as well (or 8341 if you have less budget).



Cheu
Old 10th February 2018
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Oh Also havent personally heard them but I have heard very impressive stuff about the Dutch and Dutch 8c's
Old 10th February 2018
  #13
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XKAudio's Avatar
 

Also... more money doesnt necessarily mean better.
Old 10th February 2018
  #14
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by XKAudio View Post
Also... more money doesnt necessarily mean better.
True!
Old 10th February 2018
  #15
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To the OP: Do yourself a favor and don't fall into the ever so common trap of placing a $12K set of monitors in a room with $500 of DIY treatment.

I have seen this over and over on GS (and elsewhere) where somebody is in a bedroom with some 4" 703 cloud panels overhead, some 1st reflection traps, and some superchunks in the corners. They basically copy a design they saw somewhere on the internet and feel like they have suddenly transformed a bedroom into a pro CR worthy of a $12K pair of studio monitors. Some don't even bother testing with a program like REW ! Others do the REW tests, but then believe the false notion from others that a +- 7 to 10db of swing in the FR is something to be happy about.

If you are really serious then hire a designer who knows how to guide you to get your CR up to professional standards. Even going the DIY route for the labor, you will gobble up that $12K fairly quickly just working on the room design and treatment. But it will be the best investment you ever made if you are really serious about mixing and mastering. Heck, in a truly pro CR a pair of $3K monitors will BLOW AWAY anything $12K and above in a poorly designed CR.
Old 10th February 2018
  #16
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Jantex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
To the OP: Do yourself a favor and don't fall into the ever so common trap of placing a $12K set of monitors in a room with $500 of DIY treatment.

I have seen this over and over on GS (and elsewhere) where somebody is in a bedroom with some 4" 703 cloud panels overhead, some 1st reflection traps, and some superchunks in the corners. They basically copy a design they saw somewhere on the internet and feel like they have suddenly transformed a bedroom into a pro CR worthy of a $12K pair of studio monitors. Some don't even bother testing with a program like REW ! Others do the REW tests, but then believe the false notion from others that a +- 7 to 10db of swing in the FR is something to be happy about.

If you are really serious then hire a designer who knows how to guide you to get your CR up to professional standards. Even going the DIY route for the labor, you will gobble up that $12K fairly quickly just working on the room design and treatment. But it will be the best investment you ever made if you are really serious about mixing and mastering. Heck, in a truly pro CR a pair of $3K monitors will BLOW AWAY anything $12K and above in a poorly designed CR.
This is as true as it gets. Regardign the importance, speakers are nothing compared to the room, and that is a fact. Room will in the majority of cases have much much more deviation than even the intro budget monitors, so don't fall into a trap thinking that better monitors will help you achieve profesisonal results. You will be better off with good headphones and budget monitors in a domestic home room.
Old 10th February 2018
  #17
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If you buy MixCubes and put a good sub under them in a professionally designed and treated room, you are more likely to get consistent and useable results than if you put $12,000 monitors in a medium-sized space with some DYI treatment.
Maybe that’s an overstatement, but from my experience it seems essentially correct. Most engineers spend big money on speakers first and later have to do a lot of “catch up” work and spending trying to make the room deserve the speakers. That’s my experience of home studios, my own and others. Although “big money” for speakers has a different meaning for me.
Old 10th February 2018
  #18
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“Make the room deserve the speakers.” That’s worth repeating.
Old 10th February 2018
  #19
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Cardinal_SINE's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony23 View Post
Hi guys !!

I'm new here and this is my first post

I'm searching for a pair of monitors for mixing, mastering and some production !

My list went down to this :

1) Genelec 8351 or 8260A

2) Amphion One18 & BaseOne25 System

3) Kii Three

4 )ATC SCM45A Pro

My budget is around the sum of 12,000 $

My room is 5,3m x 4,2m x2,2m (17,38 ft x 13,78 x 7,22 ft )

I plan to do some acoustic treatment for early reflections , ceiling ( clouds ) , bass traps in every corner and a large skyline diffuser on the back wall !!!

So, please share your opinions and experience with the monitors in the list !

Thank You !!!
why 12,000? what does that represent
Old 10th February 2018
  #20
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
If you buy MixCubes and put a good sub under them in a professionally designed and treated room.....
Have you tried that? I haven't, but I have a pair of MCs, and I am not so sure that even in the best room that would work.
Old 10th February 2018
  #21
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal_SINE View Post
why 12,000? what does that represent
That's the price range of a lot of the monitors he listed.
Old 11th February 2018
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Have you tried that? I haven't, but I have a pair of MCs, and I am not so sure that even in the best room that would work.
If I may flip what you’re saying, I’m not sure it wouldn’t work. The MixCubes are not grotboxes. They are phase coherent from bottom to top of their range. That means in the range most familiar and vital to humans, they are superior in one important respect to any monitor with a crossover (or two) in that range. The addition of a sub gives you the lower octave required to track and mix most genres. The rolloff above 14khz doesn’t bother me. If your music has a lot of important content above 14khz, you are mixing something intended for bats and some very strange humans.
There are genres and sessions that require more humungoid playback levels than the MixCubes can or should attempt to provide, so that is a practical limit.
But for mixing, yeah, in a straight up study of mixes done under the two specified conditions, I would put genuine money on MixCubes with a sub in a great room.
Old 11th February 2018
  #23
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I hear what you are saying (oh, and BTW - WTF is wrong with mixing for bats??? ), but I am still not convinced. I think the MCs are too small and boxey for what you are looking to achieve. They are good for what they are, but just adding a sub is not doing anything to them to make them sound "better" (relative term there). They will sound the same... if this were such a great idea, don't you think that many pro mixers would do this?

Still, I would be interested in hearing what that sounded like.

Cheers.
Old 11th February 2018
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
(oh, and BTW - WTF is wrong with mixing for bats???

.. if this were such a great idea, don't you think that many pro mixers would do this?
Bats are a PITA. They always want to work at night, and they complain about everything... squeak squeak this, and squeak squeak that... and they reek of rotten fruit or dead rodents. I stopped working with them in the late 80s.
At least I thought they were bats. ...It was a difficult time.

I’m not very serious about MixCubes as main speakers, but I think I would prefer mixing on them with a sub in a really good room to any 12,000 dollar mains in a DYI bedroom.
Old 11th February 2018
  #25
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XKAudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
I hear what you are saying (oh, and BTW - WTF is wrong with mixing for bats??? ), but I am still not convinced. I think the MCs are too small and boxey for what you are looking to achieve. They are good for what they are, but just adding a sub is not doing anything to them to make them sound "better" (relative term there). They will sound the same... if this were such a great idea, don't you think that many pro mixers would do this?

Still, I would be interested in hearing what that sounded like.

Cheers.
Many pros do. Use any Jean-Marie horvat mix as an example.

Also, Gearslutz, please quote that post about the room “deserving” a speaker and make everyone read it before being allowed onto this site. Do it for music. Please!

Its probably the single biggest mistake in the studio world.

Last edited by XKAudio; 11th February 2018 at 06:48 AM..
Old 11th February 2018
  #26
Gear Head
Strauss Monitors......! its simple.....
Old 11th February 2018
  #27
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by XKAudio View Post
Many pros do. Use any Jean-Marie horvat mix as an example.
Does he do his mixes with nothing but MixCubes and a sub? Or does he check his mixes on MCs?
Old 11th February 2018
  #28
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by XKAudio View Post

Also, Gearslutz, please quote that post about the room “deserving” a speaker and make everyone read it before being allowed onto this site. Do it for music. Please!

Its probably the single biggest mistake in the studio world.
Agree 110% !! But we know that will not happen because there is no money in telling the truth, but LOTS of money in selling gear, plugins, and retreats with the "Masters".

The real truth is that the single biggest advantage any "pro" engineer has over a novice is the FACT that they are producing/mixing music in a custom designed, VERY accurate room where they actually can hear what they are doing -- IOW the TRUTH, the whole TRUTH, and nothing but the TRUTH for each and every processing decision they make ! The OP seems to have placed his priorities in reverse: he wants to invest $12K in some fancy monitors and then slap up $500 worth of DIY treatment as an afterthought. And that's most likely because he's heard over and over on internet forums that the "pros" could mix anywhere, that a DIY bedroom studio with a +- 7 to 10db swing from 20-20,000 Hz is "good enough".

Last edited by sage691; 11th February 2018 at 08:01 PM..
Old 11th February 2018
  #29
Here for the gear
 

hi all !

Frist of all i want to thx everybody who make soem time to respond to this post !

now.... uuhh , i dont want to be rude or something , but guys ,,,i asked about this 4 speakers !!! i didn't mention that i have bedroom with 500$ DIY treatment ,i dont need that talk about my room and so one....., i just wanted to talk about these 4 speakers !!!

I know the importance of rrom treatment and so one, i have a plan for this....

Thx again
Old 11th February 2018
  #30
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With a $12,000 budget and a reasonable idea of what manufacturers to look at, and you apparently have both, it is impossible to make a bad choice. Apart from standing next to you in your room while you do some A/B testing of various models, I seriously doubt we can be of much help in picking the most perfect monitor for you and your room. Good luck!
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