The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Ams/Neve 1073 DPA is too loud? Dual-Channel Preamps
Old 24th January 2018
  #1
Ams/Neve 1073 DPA is too loud?

Hi,

I recently bought a new Ams/Neve 1073 DPA and a new Manley Reference Cardioid. I really like the sound BUT I can't get a good sound out of this combination unless I use the absolute lowest settings on the preamp. I must be doing something wrong I guess because I only sing and play acoustic guitar in it. When I sing I'm like 5 inch from the mic. For acoustic guitar I use the Neumann KM 184 and this one is less loud but still very loud.

I put the input gain on the lowest setting possible (20db on 'mic') and the output gain just a bit above the lowest setting. The mics go trough the mic input into the Neve. Then I use line output from the neve into the line input of my audio interface. From the mic to the preamp I use XLR cables and from preamp to interface I use XLR - RTS cables.

The audio interface I use is the Focusrite Scarlett 18i8. I put the gain of the scarlett all the way down and the phantom power is off. There is no way completely bypass the Scarlett if I'm correct. Could this be the problem?

I have not tried the -10 db pad on the Manley because I believe this could not be necessary for recording vocals. Does anyone know what could cause the problem? On current settings it would't even be possible to record electric guitar because that would be extremely too loud.
Old 24th January 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Jantex's Avatar
 

Nothing is too loud and there ain't any problem with your equipment. It is just that DPA is not really the preamp I would choose for Manley Ref C. I also have 1073DPA besides other pres and also Manley Ref C, which is a wonderful mic (actually my most used mic). It is just that it has a very high output and Neve cannot provide less than 20dB gain on the input. With louder singers or louder sources you might therefore have a problem even with -10dB pad engaged on the Manley.

To be honest, I far prefer Manley with Portico 5012 pre or even UAD Apollo preamp to DPA. There are great chances you might prefer the sound of your Focusrite Scarlet interface with this mic. Definitely you will have much greater flexibility with it, since it can provide input gain from 0dB on, and Manley Ref C can also provide line level signals so it really needs only very little gain on your preamp.
Old 24th January 2018
  #3
This has been recently addressed here: Neve 1073 dpd swap for a Manley Voxbox?? Manley Cardioid so hot

There is nothing wrong with your gear or your purchase. This is a matter of basic audio engineering.

Neve/clone 1073 preamps don't have an internal mid pad. Even at the lowest gain setting, there are plenty of mics that are too hot for these preamps. On loud guitars or snare drums, a Shure SM-57 can be too much for a 1073 preamp. Make sure that the +48 phantom switch is off when using your Manley mic.

The solutions are very easy and cheap:

1. Try the -10 pad on the Manley. That's what it's there for. I'm not sure where it's located in the Manley's signal path. On most condenser mics, the pad is between the capsule and the internal electronics. This prevents hot signals from distorting the mic's circuit before the audio gets to the external mic preamp.

2. Buy a Shure A15AS mic pad. This should be in every engineer's kit bag:

A15AS In-line Switchable Attenuator | Shure Americas

3. Try patching the output of the Manley PSU directly into the line input of the Neve. Try turning the Manley's pad off. I've used this technique with my Neumann U-47 on loud instruments.

Try these suggestions and I bet that you'll record great sounding tracks with your fab gear.
Old 24th January 2018
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Powell View Post
This has been recently addressed here: Neve 1073 dpd swap for a Manley Voxbox?? Manley Cardioid so hot

There is nothing wrong with your gear or your purchase. This is a matter of basic audio engineering.

Neve/clone 1073 preamps don't have an internal mid pad. Even at the lowest gain setting, there are plenty of mics that are too hot for these preamps. On loud guitars or snare drums, a Shure SM-57 can be too much for a 1073 preamp. Make sure that the +48 phantom switch is off when using your Manley mic.

The solutions are very easy and cheap:

1. Try the -10 pad on the Manley. That's what it's there for. I'm not sure where it's located in the Manley's signal path. On most condenser mics, the pad is between the capsule and the internal electronics. This prevents hot signals from distorting the mic's circuit before the audio gets to the external mic preamp.

2. Buy a Shure A15AS mic pad. This should be in every engineer's kit bag:

A15AS In-line Switchable Attenuator | Shure Americas

3. Try patching the output of the Manley PSU directly into the line input of the Neve. Try turning the Manley's pad off. I've used this technique with my Neumann U-47 on loud instruments.

Try these suggestions and I bet that you'll record great sounding tracks with your fab gear.
Thank you very much man! I will try all of this. What do you mean by turning the manley's pad off? Do you mean turning on the -10 db pad?

Also it makes me wander why the gain is so high on even the lowest settings. It doesn't seem logical to me. Does everyone use a mic pad with the Neve when recording electric guitar or so?
Old 24th January 2018
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
Nothing is too loud and there ain't any problem with your equipment. It is just that DPA is not really the preamp I would choose for Manley Ref C. I also have 1073DPA besides other pres and also Manley Ref C, which is a wonderful mic (actually my most used mic). It is just that it has a very high output and Neve cannot provide less than 20dB gain on the input. With louder singers or louder sources you might therefore have a problem even with -10dB pad engaged on the Manley.

To be honest, I far prefer Manley with Portico 5012 pre or even UAD Apollo preamp to DPA. There are great chances you might prefer the sound of your Focusrite Scarlet interface with this mic. Definitely you will have much greater flexibility with it, since it can provide input gain from 0dB on, and Manley Ref C can also provide line level signals so it really needs only very little gain on your preamp.
Alright, thank you very much! The thing is though that it is not only with the manley.

For the Neumann KM 184 I also have to use the lowest gain setting and I don't think that that is a very high output mic right?

So it makes me wander how I could even use the gain above 20db. For what purpose could anyone use the high input/output setting?
Old 24th January 2018
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by RubenP View Post
Thank you very much man! I will try all of this. What do you mean by turning the manley's pad off? Do you mean turning on the -10 db pad?

Also it makes me wander why the gain is so high on even the lowest settings. It doesn't seem logical to me. Does everyone use a mic pad with the Neve when recording electric guitar or so?
Turn on the -10 db pad when patching into the mic input. Leave it off if you are trying the line input.

On older gear like the original Neve consoles, high gain settings were necessary for ribbon mics and some dynamic mics that had very low outputs. Most American consoles from the 50's and early 60's were designed for RCA ribbon mics - standard fare for studios and broadcast. Higher gain was also needed for quiet orchestral recording.

When Neumann U-47 mics were first imported into the US, Gotham Audio would add a simple pad inside the power supply. Otherwise the mic would distort most US mixing desks of that era.

For intentional distortion, I've recorded guitars without a pad for my Neve preamps and turned down the output knob. The extra crunchiness made the guitar fit right in the mix.
Old 24th January 2018
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Powell View Post
Turn on the -10 db pad when patching into the mic input. Leave it off if you are trying the line input.

On older gear like the original Neve consoles, high gain settings were necessary for ribbon mics and some dynamic mics that had very low outputs. Most American consoles from the 50's and early 60's were designed for RCA ribbon mics - standard fare for studios and broadcast. Higher gain was also needed for quiet orchestral recording.

When Neumann U-47 mics were first imported into the US, Gotham Audio would add a simple pad inside the power supply. Otherwise the mic would distort most US mixing desks of that era.

For intentional distortion, I've recorded guitars without a pad for my Neve preamps and turned down the output knob. The extra crunchiness made the guitar fit right in the mix.
Thank you very much for the explanation. I appreciate it

I have tried patching the PSU trough the line input. It does turn down the volume but it gives a constant noise.

It does work to just put the -10db on

Also I'm going to check out the attenuator.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump