The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
H3000 Differences Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 16th April 2007
  #1
H3000 Differences

So can anyone explain the differences between all the Eventide H3000s? Obviously I have used a few of them over the years (seems like everyone has one) but I have never really paid attention to all the model differences.

What is the "blue" one? How about the older grey ones, what are the models are they…. And the grey ones with the crazy red strip? What is an H3000-D/SE? Are some models meant more for guitar rigs than studios?

Thanks.
Old 16th April 2007
  #2
Gear Nut
 

The original H3000 became available in 1988.
The unit was soon upgraded to "blue" version called H3000S (Studio), later superseded by "grey" H3000SE (Studio Enhanced). There was also a broadcast version called H3000B (black with yellow switches). The last revisions were H3000D/SE (studio version with red inscription "Dynamic" below the dial knob) and H3000D/SX (musicians version with a red wave above the display and red switches).
The H3000D/SE is definitely the version to have. All other units can be upgraded with EPROM's. As far as I know the hardware was identical in all revisions.

Hope this helps.
Old 16th April 2007
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukpio View Post
The original H3000 became available in 1988.
The unit was soon upgraded to "blue" version called H3000S (Studio), later superseded by "grey" H3000SE (Studio Enhanced). There was also a broadcast version called H3000B (black with yellow switches). The last revisions were H3000D/SE (studio version with red inscription "Dynamic" below the dial) and H3000D/SX (musicians version with a red wave above the display and red switches).
The H3000D/SE is definitely the version to have. All other units can be upgraded with EPROM's. As far as I know the hardware were identical in all revisions.

Hope this helps.
thumbsup

Very cool... Yes thank you!

So what are the differences between the units in usage then? Are there just more patches on some than others or are the patches better on some than others? I have mostly used what looks like the H3000SE in the past, always sounded great to my ears. How do the others stack up in sound and features?
Old 16th April 2007
  #4
Lives for gear
 
dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
thumbsup

Very cool... Yes thank you!

So what are the differences between the units in usage then? Are there just more patches on some than others or are the patches better on some than others? I have mostly used what looks like the H3000SE in the past, always sounded great to my ears. How do the others stack up in sound and features?
The SE was pretty much the early range. Excellent, but I think the later ones are much better with stuff like mod factory etc.

There are certain algorithms that are only available as standard on the H3000 D/SE and can be added to the D/SX. I think these are vocoder, some 3D patches and maybe some others plus there are also some celeb patches from (and I quote!) Bob Clearmountain, David Holman, Michael James, John Cuniberti, Henry Kaiser, Roey Shamir & Angela Piva of INFX Productions, Joe Franco, Andrew Schlesinger, Dave Derr and more

The D/SE also has the Vai patches that the D/SX has.

You can add a sampling card to the D/SX and D/SE

The D/SE is the one really. The last of the classic range
I had a D/SX and sold it. Never got over it and recently grabbed a D/SE. Absolutely fabulous. Such an inspirational and characterful FX unit. Love it.
It also just sounds GREAT.

thumbsup
Old 16th April 2007
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Early H3000 and H3000S versions had 11 algorithms:
Diatonic Shift
Layered Shift
Dual Shift
Stereo Shift
Reverse Shift
Swept Combs
Swept Reverb
Reverb Factory
Ultra Tap
Long Digiplex
Dual Digiplex

The H3000SE had additionally Patch Factory and S t u t t e r algorithms.

The musician's version H3000D/SX had all H3000S algorithms and Patch Factory, Multi-Shift, Mod Factory One and Mod Factory Two.

The ultimate studio version H3000D/SE had all D/SX algorithms plus S t u t t e r, Dense Room, Vocoder, Band Delay, String Simulator and Phaser.

Time Squeeze is an algorithm specific to broadcast H3000B version.

I don't remember history of patches, because I never really used ready-made patches, except Drum Processor based on Swept Reverb algorithm. Very cool!

The H3000 family is my favourite digital FX processor. I think the key to its sound is in converter technology. No contemporary sigma-delta converters. It uses old-fashioned multi-bit converters with massive analogue filtering.
The only downsides are buzzing mains transformer, which is bolted to the side of the chassis, and quite a few chips which are obsolete and therefore very hard to find, like Sony CX20018 A/D converter.
Old 16th April 2007
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Barish's Avatar
This sheet should tell you what is what:

http://www.eventide.com/oldies/3khist.htm


Funny enough, my H3000 looks to be more than SE and D/SX, but less than D/SE. Somewhere in between when I crosscheck its presets and algorithms with this chart. I guess it is to do with the Mod Factory sampler board installed in it. But does the job anyways. I didn't bother upgrading it to D/SE for it costs some silly amount, something like 700 bucks or something. I didn't think it was worth paying all that money for a few more patches that probably I'll never use anyways.

If you can buy it as D/SE then that's fine, but if it's something else then watch how much you are paying for it.


(BTW, buzzing transformer replacement costs $110 + Shipping... ouch!)


I've also upgraded the input and output opamps and caps in mine, which helped quite a bit. (Don't do that home if you don't have the service manual.)

B.
Old 17th April 2007
  #7
Lives for gear
 
dlmorley's Avatar
Yes, if buying, then no point buying less than what you want. Upgrading is too expensive.
H3000 D/SE also has a polyphonic synth IIRC
I paid 1000 euros for my D/SE. I've seen them a fair bit cheaper in the states, but I've also seen the original H3000 go for €800 and the D/SX goes for about the same or even more than the D/SE here (I think people think it is different and unique especially guitarists)

Agree about drum processor. One of my favorite FX.
Old 8th May 2007
  #8
Okay guys... so which one is this?

This looks allot like the units I used years ago at a couple of places around town here. I was told the one in the photo is working just fine and it has "upgraded SW" (whatever that might be??).

I can pick it up for $650 + shipping. I think that is a good deal all in all.... any comments?


<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/not_so_new/H3000_FV.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/not_so_new/H3000_RV.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>
Old 8th May 2007
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
Okay guys... so which one is this?

This looks allot like the units I used years ago at a couple of places around town here. I was told the one in the photo is working just fine and it has "upgraded SW" (whatever that might be??).

I can pick it up for $650 + shipping. I think that is a good deal all in all.... any comments?


<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/not_so_new/H3000_FV.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/not_so_new/H3000_RV.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>
Its the original H3000.

I have one. A bit on the noisy & grainy side but definitely usable.

I paid $500.
Old 8th May 2007
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Its the original H3000.

I have one. A bit on the noisy & grainy side but definitely usable.

I paid $500.
Cool.. how long ago did you pick yours up? Sounds like $650 might not be a good deal after all?

heh

He did say that it has a software upgrade of some kind. Not sure how far up this unit can go with software.

Oh and is it "grainy" because of the software or the converters you think?
Old 8th May 2007
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
Cool.. how long ago did you pick yours up? Sounds like $650 might not be a good deal after all?

heh

He did say that it has a software upgrade of some kind. Not sure how far up this unit can go with software.

Oh and is it "grainy" because of the software or the converters you think?
I bought it 3 years ago.

I have 3 Eventide Harmonizers total(DSP7000,H3000 DSX,H3000).

Its grainy because of the converters. But it works and does what it supposed to do.

I think its permanently stuck on the Dual H910s program. Come to think of it they all are.
Old 8th May 2007
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
I bought it 3 years ago.

I have 3 Eventide Harmonizers total(DSP7000,H3000 DSX,H3000).

Its grainy because of the converters. But it works and does what it supposed to do.

I think its permanently stuck on the Dual H910s program. Come to think of it they all are.
LOL

Thanks man.

Old 8th May 2007
  #13
Lives for gear
 
dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
Okay guys... so which one is this?

This looks allot like the units I used years ago at a couple of places around town here. I was told the one in the photo is working just fine and it has "upgraded SW" (whatever that might be??).

I can pick it up for $650 + shipping. I think that is a good deal all in all.... any comments?

Upgraded SW is important. It could be upgraded to have mod factory etc. Find out what the software upgrade is.
If it's the basic H3000 with original software, that's an ok price, but as mentioned you can find them for that or a touch less. If it has been upgraded to an D/SE that's a good price.
The D/SX or D/SE versions have quite a few more algorithms and are WELL worth the extra.
Here is some info about upgrades
UPGRADE KITS AVAILABLE FOR THE EVENTIDE H3000 LINE OF ULTRA-HARMONIZERS
Old 8th May 2007
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
Upgraded SW is important. It could be upgraded to have mod factory etc. Find out what the software upgrade is.
If it's the basic H3000 with original software, that's an ok price, but as mentioned you can find them for that or a touch less. If it has been upgraded to an D/SE that's a good price.
The D/SX or D/SE versions have quite a few more algorithms and are WELL worth the extra.
Here is some info about upgrades
UPGRADE KITS AVAILABLE FOR THE EVENTIDE H3000 LINE OF ULTRA-HARMONIZERS
One thing though the upgrade kits doesn't change the converter chips.

So a noisy/grainy Eventide is still noisy and grainy. But again you can use its short comings as an advantage. The plain older H3000 i use it for chorusing on tracks that need the edge taken off and you want to feel it more than hear it.

And even though people hype up the new Algos every major studio that i've been in around the world when i check the DSE's they are always on the same presets: Micro pitch shift delay,dual shift or Dual H910s.

Those are the patches that have practically made the Eventides what they are.
Old 8th May 2007
  #15
Lives for gear
 
dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
One thing though the upgrade kits doesn't change the converter chips.

So a noisy/grainy Eventide is still noisy and grainy. But again you can use its short comings as an advantage. The plain older H3000 i use it for chorusing on tracks that need the edge taken off and you want to feel it more than hear it.

And even though people hype up the new Algos every major studio that i've been in around the world when i check the DSE's they are always on the same presets: Micro pitch shift delay,dual shift or Dual H910s.

Those are the patches that have practically made the Eventides what they are.
Sure, the converters are pretty grungy on the original and I would always suggest spending the extra to get the D/SX or D/SE.
I use the D/SE and to be honest don't use it for micro pitch much if at all.
Drum Processor, Delays, some of the 3D stuff, Vocoder, Reverbs... I love the lot and use them all.
Sad if studios just leave it on 1 of 3 settings. It's still my favorite FX box and well worth experimenting with.
Old 8th May 2007
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
Sure, the converters are pretty grungy on the original and I would always suggest spending the extra to get the D/SX or D/SE.
I use the D/SE and to be honest don't use it for micro pitch much if at all.
Drum Processor, Delays, some of the 3D stuff, Vocoder, Reverbs... I love the lot and use them all.
I agree its a great experimental box.

Hey it has big knob need we say more?heh

No micropitch shift? Wow first guy i've ever met that doesn't do the little pitch up/pitch down little delay thing on vocals.

And H3000 reverbs?

Nah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
Sad if studios just leave it on 1 of 3 settings. It's still my favorite FX box and well worth experimenting with.
Well its probably on of those 3 because those are probably everyone's favorites settings.
Old 8th May 2007
  #17
Lives for gear
 
dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
I agree its a great experimental box.

Hey it has big knob need we say more?heh

No micropitch shift? Wow first guy i've ever met that doesn't do the little pitch up/pitch down little delay thing on vocals.


And H3000 reverbs?

Nah.



Well its probably on of those 3 because those are probably everyone's favorites settings.
I must admit, I do a fair bit of instrumental music, so microshift is possibly not used for that reason. For backing vox it obviously is a great algo

The reverb is a weird one. I have a couple of really nice reverbs and it is clearly not "as good" BUT it has a character that nothing else does. Maybe those converters again??

I just find them inspirational boxes. If I am writing, it's one of those units that can inspire you. And recording some changes via midi is worth the trouble too
And of course, the BIG KNOB does it for me
Old 8th May 2007
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post

I just find them inspirational boxes. If I am writing, it's one of those units that can inspire you. And recording some changes via midi is worth the trouble too
And of course, the BIG KNOB does it for me
Hey it worked for guys like Flood(DSP4000), Brian Eno(H3000) and a ton of other guys so i hear that!!!thumbsup
Old 8th May 2007
  #19
You know it's funny but the only thing I really want it for is the micropitch shift and dual shift. I agree with Thrill, that is exactly what I think of when I hear the name Eventide.

I am questioning if the thing is worth $650.... I see them on Ebay for allot more but I think they are the newer versions. Decisions decisions.....
Old 8th May 2007
  #20
Lives for gear
 
luctellier's Avatar
Can any of you upload a vocal track in solo using the Micropitchshift Preset? I've been searching that for months...
Old 8th May 2007
  #21
Gear Addict
 
CrazyBeast's Avatar
 

Speaking of these units, does anyone have the factory patch list in a pdf or something like that? I picked up a h3000b, which was experiencing some weirdness so I reset it back to the factory presets, and it would be nice to have a printable list of the patches...
Old 8th May 2007
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by luctellier View Post
Can any of you upload a vocal track in solo using the Micropitchshift Preset? I've been searching that for months...
Hi Luctellier.

Probably not something you would listen to soloed (but what is right?). It is usually really subtle in a mix, almost to the point where you don't even hear it. The only way you notice the effect is when you mute it then the vocal seems to get smaller.

You can get a rough idea of the effect if you copy a vocal into 2 other tracks making 3 tracks total. Pitch up the L (or R) track 9 or so cents and pitch down the opposite track 9 or so cents then delay each by 10 to 25 milliseconds. Don't touch the center vocal at all and put the L and R pitch shifted tracks way down under the center lead. This is just a starting point to work from but it will give you a good idea what the Micropitch shift is all about.

Actually it works really well in a computer, Samplitude anyway, and it is almost worth just doing ITB but the H3000 does it in a cool way. It is something that you have probably heard, or not heard but "felt" on many recordings. I guess I am just nostalgic but I miss doing this out of the box, that is why I am thinking about getting an H3000. I might change my mind if I try ITB and the H3000 side by side, who knows. I don't because I have not done it.

heh
Old 8th May 2007
  #23
Lives for gear
 
orange's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyBeast View Post
Speaking of these units, does anyone have the factory patch list in a pdf or something like that? I picked up a h3000b, which was experiencing some weirdness so I reset it back to the factory presets, and it would be nice to have a printable list of the patches...
I think all of that stuff is on the eventide website
Old 8th May 2007
  #24
Lives for gear
 
luctellier's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
Hi Luctellier.

Probably not something you would listen to soloed (but what is right?). It is usually really subtle in a mix, almost to the point where you don't even hear it. The only way you notice the effect is when you mute it then the vocal seems to get smaller.

You can get a rough idea of the effect if you copy a vocal into 2 other tracks making 3 tracks total. Pitch up the L (or R) track 9 or so cents and pitch down the opposite track 9 or so cents then delay each by 10 to 25 milliseconds. Don't touch the center vocal at all and put the L and R pitch shifted tracks way down under the center lead. This is just a starting point to work from but it will give you a good idea what the Micropitch shift is all about.

Actually it works really well in a computer, Samplitude anyway, and it is almost worth just doing ITB but the H3000 does it in a cool way. It is something that you have probably heard, or not heard but "felt" on many recordings. I guess I am just nostalgic but I miss doing this out of the box, that is why I am thinking about getting an H3000. I might change my mind if I try ITB and the H3000 side by side, who knows. I don't because I have not done it.

heh
I want to compare with other ways of doing it like using Waves Doubler (18ms, 24ms, L-R, +9, -9) or any other plugins/outboard doing the same kind of processing. It seems that the algorithm of the H3000 for doing this task is very unique and I never had the chance to try it so I was wondering if someone could upload a vocal track with the Micropitchshift effect process.
Old 8th May 2007
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by luctellier View Post
I want to compare with other ways of doing it like using Waves Doubler (18ms, 24ms, L-R, +9, -9) or any other plugins/outboard doing the same kind of processing. It seems that the algorithm of the H3000 for doing this task is very unique and I never had the chance to try it so I was wondering if someone could upload a vocal track with the Micropitchshift effect process.

thumbsup

I am not sure that it is really that unique, as I said it might just be nostalgia on all of our part. The H3000 did get a name for itself doing pitch shifting but that might be because it was really the first high quality unit to do it. I have to wonder if ITB is actually better now but I don't really know. Often cool old gear sounds cool because it is old with converters and algorithms build specifically for that unit.

Anyway, the H3000 is pretty cool but I have not used one side by side with an ITB plugin so maybe it is not as cool as my memory tells me it is..
Old 8th May 2007
  #26
Lives for gear
 
luctellier's Avatar
You see, that's my probleme hehe, everyone talks about this unit but I never been able to have someone owning one and sending me an audio example
Old 8th May 2007
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by luctellier View Post
You see, that's my probleme hehe, everyone talks about this unit but I never been able to have someone owning one and sending me an audio example
Yep.. sucks.

All I can say is I have used them many times for this exact thing but never side by side with another method like ITB.

If I do pick this one up I will try to post a sample for you. No guarantees, I never actually get time to post anything here and I am not sure I will buy this one now but if I can and I do I will.

Old 8th May 2007
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by luctellier View Post
I want to compare with other ways of doing it like using Waves Doubler (18ms, 24ms, L-R, +9, -9) or any other plugins/outboard doing the same kind of processing. It seems that the algorithm of the H3000 for doing this task is very unique and I never had the chance to try it so I was wondering if someone could upload a vocal track with the Micropitchshift effect process.
Its definitely sonically different.

Trust me there is a reason i have 3 of them.heh

I also have the Waves Doubler and have tried to get the same effect on vocals and the doubler just sounds thinner and more processed. The H3000 in contrast sounds rounder and thicker. Now each generation of H3000 does sound different. The new Eventides while they have better converters(these days though i am using strictly as a digital device) i notice i have to fiddle with it more(EQ) to get the same "balmy" effect on the micro pitchshift/delay thing to get it to play nice with the vocals.

I prefer to use the newer ones on backgrounds and the old school H3000's for lead vocals and synths.
Old 8th May 2007
  #29
Lives for gear
 
dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by luctellier View Post
You see, that's my probleme hehe, everyone talks about this unit but I never been able to have someone owning one and sending me an audio example
How about posting a file in this thread that people can use.
My studio is being rewired and waiting for new converters so it#s impractical for at least a week...
Old 8th May 2007
  #30
Lives for gear
 
luctellier's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Its definitely sonically different.

Trust me there is a reason i have 3 of them.heh

I also have the Waves Doubler and have tried to get the same effect on vocals and the doubler just sounds thinner and more processed. The H3000 in contrast sounds rounder and thicker. Now each generation of H3000 does sound different. The new Eventides while they have better converters(these days though i am using strictly as a digital device) i notice i have to fiddle with it more(EQ) to get the same "balmy" effect on the micro pitchshift/delay thing to get it to play nice with the vocals.

I prefer to use the newer ones on backgrounds and the old school H3000's for lead vocals and synths.
Prove it! Post some files!

Last edited by luctellier; 8th May 2007 at 08:54 PM.. Reason: typo
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
vaesion / So Much Gear, So Little Time
0
Dirty Halo / High End
12
echorec / So Much Gear, So Little Time
6
echo unit / So Much Gear, So Little Time
14

Forum Jump
Forum Jump