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Should I sell my 60's U67? Condenser Microphones
Old 5th December 2017
  #31
Lives for gear
 
jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpeacock View Post
Yes, I was talking about using the microphones to make records, not as investments.

I invest in real estate and that's my investment niche—I can't speak to how sound your philosophy is with regard to vintage recording equipment—I suspect you have a good point there, although I also suspect that investments like that have a problem of having very slow liquidity, even slower than real estate. I have no idea how long it takes to sell a $50,000 Fairchild, but I'd have to bet it takes a minute.

And you're correct in that new gear loses value (which is why you buy it used), but I would argue that vintage gear has to be serviced and repaired more often, which contributes to a higher cost to own. And one of the standard mistakes on Gearslutz is assuming that every poster lives someplace that a tech to deal with a vintage tape machine failure or a microphone specialist is but a phone call away. Not everyone here lives in L.A., New York, London, or (to a lesser extent) Nashville.

And speaking of where you live, if the market in L.A. is such that you have to have vintage equipment to attract clients, then sure, that's a valid reason to stock vintage. But that's not the case everywhere.

I'm not a vintage gear aficionado by any means. I've heard enough of it compared to newer stuff to have the opinion that in the context of a mix it makes 5-10% difference. And some people's ears may prefer the newer stuff...when I say 5-10% difference, I don't mean that the vintage stuff is that much better...just different.

That's my experience and obviously YMMV.
It’s both a tool AND an I investment. Once done properly, a mic doesn’t require routine maintenance. Consoles and Fairchilds, sure. Mics, not so much.

Gear and guitars are much easier to move than real estate, and with none of those pesky capital gains taxes. And way less maintenance than a rental property! But the point is not what’s a better investment. The point is that you can have both a recording tool and an investment.
Old 5th December 2017
  #32
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
It’s both a tool AND an I investment.
Yes, and I was originally only commenting on one of those aspects.

Quote:
Gear and guitars are much easier to move than real estate, and with none of those pesky capital gains taxes.
That all depends on how valuable they are.

Real estate is extremely location dependent. I live in a college town where student renters are abundant and in my area I could sell one of my rental properties at the going rate within a couple of months, easily. You're telling me you could unload a vintage U47 or the '57 Strat you mentioned AT THE GOING RATE for those things faster than that?

Maybe you could, but I see high dollar stuff like that hanging around on Vintage King Audio or Reverb for months or even years.

Quote:
And way less maintenance than a rental property!
Again, that depends on both the property and the gear we're talking about.

Quote:
The point is that you can have both a recording tool and an investment.
Yes and no.

I understand what you mean by that, but that's only one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that at the time it is a tool it's not an investment because, unlike my rental property that directly generates money every month whether I sell it or not, you won't realize any of the gain from a microphone unless and until you sell it, at which point you can't use it as a tool anymore. It can function as a tool OR an investment at any given time, but it can't function as both at the same time.

And that's about as much as I care to argue about this.

You prefer vintage gear and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't believe anyone on the thread said there was. I don't think you have to argue your case for preferring it.
Old 5th December 2017
  #33
Lives for gear
 

There is another factor that has not been raised in this thread: the sonic properties of most any well designed, carefully assembled tube mic will mature with use over time. I bought my first tube mic, an AT4060, 12 years ago and put a NOS Mullard replacement tube in it 6 years ago and it has slowly developed through the years a much deeper, richer texture than when it was new. The same is true for my four Paluso's (2247SE, P67,P12 & P28) that I acquired 10 years ago. The 2247 & P67 have changed more than the P12 or P28 because they are more frequently in use. The U87s, 47s & 67s that were common in good studios when I started recording 50 years ago have much different sonic properties today than back then: Smoke & Spit has provided an interesting alchemy that favorably alters the sonic quality of now revered vintage mics. It is a big mistake IMO to dismiss the probability that the better new retro tube mics will change for the better with professional use over time!
Hugh
Old 5th December 2017
  #34
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drpeacock View Post
Y Another way of looking at it is that at the time it is a tool it's not an investment because, unlike my rental property that directly generates money every month whether I sell it or not, you won't realize any of the gain from a microphone unless and until you sell it, at which point you can't use it as a tool anymore. It can function as a tool OR an investment at any given time, but it can't function as both at the same time.
If you make money using it and it gets you to your destinations quicker and easier, of course it can.
Old 5th December 2017
  #35
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
If you make money using it and it gets you to your destinations quicker and easier, of course it can.
Not based on that rationale. All you just did was describe using it as a tool.

What I think you're doing is saying to yourself, "Any tool you buy is an investment in that you use it to make money."

O.k., but that's true whether it's new gear or vintage. The poster to whom I was replying was stating that vintage gear has investment value above and beyond the investment you've made in it as a tool. Thus the emphasis on it being a tool AND and investment.

Try again.

BTW, the nits some of you people want to pick regarding this are strange to me. If you like vintage gear, have vintage gear. You don't have to come up with some (flawed) elaborate rationale to justify it.
Old 5th December 2017
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpeacock View Post

BTW, the nits some of you people want to pick regarding this are strange to me. If you like vintage gear, have vintage gear. You don't have to come up with some (flawed) elaborate rationale to justify it.
I think we all just trying to justifie ourselfs haha!

Me/we who bought vintage gear in recent years paying a premium price. Then it has to be better right haha!!??

And the people who have now sold most of their vintage gear claiming it's all good and nothing lost just money gained :D
Old 5th December 2017
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
I think we all just trying to justifie ourselfs haha!

Me/we who bought vintage gear in recent years paying a premium price. Then it has to be better right haha!!??

And the people who have now sold most of their vintage gear claiming it's all good and nothing lost just money gained :D
Sure, it's human nature. This stuff costs so much whether it's vintage or not that it's natural to construct rationales for our choices no matter what they are, I guess.

Good point.
Old 5th December 2017
  #38
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antichef's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
P.S. unless it's a REALLY good one check the vintage 87 vs 67 thread the guy just did. The 87 smashed it. For a 5th of the price.
Where's that thread? I don't have a 67, but my SM69 tube wipes the floor with my U87i

(edit: found it - will listen closely this evening)
Old 5th December 2017
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by antichef View Post
Where's that thread? I don't have a 67, but my SM69 tube wipes the floor with my U87i

(edit: found it - will listen closely this evening)
I agree the SM69 tube smashes most mics including the 67.
Old 5th December 2017
  #40
i would bet $10

that you sell to the highest bidder
Old 5th December 2017
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
I agree the SM69 tube smashes most mics including the 67.
Hmm i don"t think my 269c smashes the u67. I would favor it by a small margin to my u67 but i feel that i rather keep the u67 if i ever would sell one of the two. And that is more about the expensive tube then the sound.
Old 5th December 2017
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
Hmm i don"t think my 269c smashes the u67. I would favor it by a small margin to my u67 but i feel that i rather keep the u67 if i ever would sell one of the two. And that is more about the expensive tube then the sound.
Your 87 sounds better and that doesn't even have a valve. Win-win.
Old 6th December 2017
  #43
Lives for gear
 
vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hughshouse View Post
There is another factor that has not been raised in this thread: the sonic properties of most any well designed, carefully assembled tube mic will mature with use over time. I bought my first tube mic, an AT4060, 12 years ago and put a NOS Mullard replacement tube in it 6 years ago and it has slowly developed through the years a much deeper, richer texture than when it was new. The same is true for my four Paluso's (2247SE, P67,P12 & P28) that I acquired 10 years ago. The 2247 & P67 have changed more than the P12 or P28 because they are more frequently in use. The U87s, 47s & 67s that were common in good studios when I started recording 50 years ago have much different sonic properties today than back then: Smoke & Spit has provided an interesting alchemy that favorably alters the sonic quality of now revered vintage mics. It is a big mistake IMO to dismiss the probability that the better new retro tube mics will change for the better with professional use over time!
Hugh
But when numerous classic tracks featuring 67s, 47s, C12s etc were recorded, those mics would have been fairly new.
Old 6th December 2017
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
But when numerous classic tracks featuring 67s, 47s, C12s etc were recorded, those mics would have been fairly new.
Exactly. Sell the U67 invest in a REDD Mic to console yourself and know that:

A) It sounds better.

B) It's new and a future classic.

C) You have a 5k or so to travel the world. (More valuable than any microphone)
Old 6th December 2017
  #45
Lives for gear
 

It is somewhat difficult to comprehend the world mic market 50/60 years ago. We must remember the currency exchange rate between the German mark and US dollar contributed to the apx. $200. price of U47s in those days and given the quality of their tube technology made massive purchasing of same a no brainer for the American recording industry. I raise this issue to illustrate the point that these were not regarded as vintage mics at the time and as such very quickly became everyday workhorses in most major studios. Frank Sanatra requested his "Telle" (U47) to be removed from the service locker and reserved just for his use. The point is the amount of use and abuse (smoke & spit) has more to do with sonic alteration than age. That said as the years have past the method of use has also changed however today it is impossible to determine the actual milage on any mic deployed 50 years ago.
My cousin, Cecil Jones, owned Lemco recording studio and he resisted buying his first U47 & U87 because of the memory of WWII. Anyone that listened to radio broad casts of Adolph Hitler in the 30s knew the German tube mic technology was the best in the world: Unfortunately it took a good long while for us to be comfortable buying Japanese & German products after WWII.
Hugh
Old 6th January 2018
  #46
Gear Addict
 
hw2nw's Avatar
 

If your U67 gives you that 'something special' and raises the hair on your arm, keep it!

That said, it sounds like you're happy with your other LDC. If you want to try some new inspiring tools, now's the time! Maybe a new mic, maybe a ribbon, some hardware. I find that every 4-5 years I sell off gear in order to be inspired by new sounds and choices, to ultimately get new songs. Do it if it works for you!
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